Re: spokes keep loosening

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good idea or
what is please seriously.

1. make sure spoke tension is correct. chances are, this will fix your
problem.
2. make sure the wheel is fully pre-stressed to prevent any further
bedding in of spokes in use. that will lead to further spoke loosening.
3. if the above fail, yes, it's ok to consider loctite, but get the
correct grade. it has to wick and not seize the nipples completely.
both d.t. and sapim sell a special grade loctite for this exact purpose.

Quoted message said:

Dave
"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
dave

Keep tightening them or your wheel will fall off.

--
Michael Press

Thanks Jim I'll give it a shot. I had the wheel worked on at a lbs- he said
he put spoke prep on the nipples when he loosened everything and re
tensioned them prior to this happening I'm wondering if that is causing
them to come loose so easily.
Dave

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good idea or
what is please seriously.

1. make sure spoke tension is correct. chances are, this will fix your
problem.
2. make sure the wheel is fully pre-stressed to prevent any further
bedding in of spokes in use. that will lead to further spoke loosening.
3. if the above fail, yes, it's ok to consider loctite, but get the
correct grade. it has to wick and not seize the nipples completely. both
d.t. and sapim sell a special grade loctite for this exact purpose.

Quoted message said:

Dave
"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
> dave
Keep tightening them or your wheel will fall off.

--
Michael Press

Dave said:

Thanks Jim I'll give it a shot. I had the wheel worked on at a lbs- he said
he put spoke prep on the nipples when he loosened everything and re
tensioned them prior to this happening I'm wondering if that is causing
them to come loose so easily.
Dave

not all bike shops are good at wheel building. in fact, very few are.
have them show you the spoke tension with a tensiometer. if they don't
have one, smile, take your bike and leave. if they do, note the tension
and compare it to manufacturer spec. there's data in the archive here
on that. also make sure spoke tension is as even as possible
spoke-to-spoke.

Quoted message said:

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good idea or
what is please seriously.

1. make sure spoke tension is correct. chances are, this will fix your
problem.
2. make sure the wheel is fully pre-stressed to prevent any further
bedding in of spokes in use. that will lead to further spoke loosening.
3. if the above fail, yes, it's ok to consider loctite, but get the
correct grade. it has to wick and not seize the nipples completely. both
d.t. and sapim sell a special grade loctite for this exact purpose.

Quoted message said:

Dave
"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article
> <[email hidden]>,
> "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
>> dave
> Keep tightening them or your wheel will fall off.
>
> --
> Michael Press
>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
>>> dave

maybe the wrong size nipples are matched with the spokes

jim beam said:

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good idea
or what is please seriously.

1. make sure spoke tension is correct. chances are, this will fix your
problem.
2. make sure the wheel is fully pre-stressed to prevent any further
bedding in of spokes in use. that will lead to further spoke loosening.
3. if the above fail, yes, it's ok to consider loctite, but get the
correct grade. it has to wick and not seize the nipples completely.
both d.t. and sapim sell a special grade loctite for this exact purpose.

4. (or should it be #0?) Make sure the rim isn't failing with bulges
around the spoke holes. With a failing rim, there's no way you can get
suitable tension, and no way to keep the spokes from loosening.

Hopefully this isn't the problem, but if it is, #1-3 are irrelevant.

Mark "Been there, done that with an MA-3" J.

Mark said:

jim beam said:

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good
idea or what is please seriously.

1. make sure spoke tension is correct. chances are, this will fix
your problem.
2. make sure the wheel is fully pre-stressed to prevent any further
bedding in of spokes in use. that will lead to further spoke loosening.
3. if the above fail, yes, it's ok to consider loctite, but get the
correct grade. it has to wick and not seize the nipples completely.
both d.t. and sapim sell a special grade loctite for this exact purpose.

4. (or should it be #0?) Make sure the rim isn't failing with bulges
around the spoke holes.

true, but #1 negates that. bulges are a symptom of over-tension.

Quoted message said:

With a failing rim, there's no way you can get
suitable tension, and no way to keep the spokes from loosening.

Hopefully this isn't the problem, but if it is, #1-3 are irrelevant.

Mark "Been there, done that with an MA-3" J.

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good idea or
what is please seriously.
Dave
"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
dave

Keep tightening them or your wheel will fall off.

--
Michael Press

Tesnion is not correct, either thru building error or because the rim
has become 'deformed' thru riding. Getting the tenion right even if it
means a not round rim(cuz it ain't round anymore), will prevent spoke
loosening

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good idea or
what is please seriously.
Dave
"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
dave

Keep tightening them or your wheel will fall off.

--
Michael Press

Tension is not correct, either thru building error or because the rim
has become 'deformed' thru riding. Getting the tenion right even if it
means a not round rim(cuz it ain't round anymore), will prevent spoke
loosening

Dave who? said:

My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do?

Quoted message said:

I thought of putting Loctite on them or something, is this a good
idea or what is please seriously.

You didn't say how many spokes this wheel has and how much you weigh.
This information would make more apparent what the problem might be.

The only way spokes can loosen is that, under load, spokes pointing
straight down to the road become slack from overload. After all "the
wheel stands on the spokes at the bottom of the wheel", structurally
speaking. When slack spoke nipples can unscrew, while the wheel is
close to collapse against even light side loads. Most wheels seldom
experience side loads so they generally don't fail that way.

In any case, your spokes are not tight enough to carry the load borne
by the few spokes in the load affected (road contact) zone. Loctite
is not the answer, although it and similar glues have been used for
wheels that experience rattling loose spokes, a problem with many
machine built wheels (SpokePrep).

The spokes need to be tighter and possibly more of them to stay tight
and true.

Please fill in the missing information.

Jobst Brandt

jim beam said:

Dave wrote:

snip..

Quoted message said:

not all bike shops are good at wheel building. in fact, very few are.
have them show you the spoke tension with a tensiometer. if they don't
have one, smile, take your bike and leave.

Cue Crusty Old Guy Voice...
Tensionometer? Back in the day we didn't need no fancy tools like
tensionometers! All WE needed was a crescent wrench and an old frame to
stick the wheel in!

grin

Lack of a tensionometer does not meant they don't know what they are
doing, nor does its presence imply that they do. (personally I look
askance on anyone using spoke prep)

All that being said I agree the tension is wrong..

Quoted message said:

snip

Quoted message said:

The spokes need to be tighter and possibly more of them to stay tight
and true.

Well, and the rim needs to be round. If it's not and you try to
compensate for it with lower tension on the spokes at that point, the
spokes at the flat spot may eventually go loose. Loctite at this point
may be better than buying a new rim or wheel, or whacking on the rim
with wood blocks trying to get the flat spot back out.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good idea or
what is please seriously.
Dave
"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
dave

Keep tightening them or your wheel will fall off.

What is the origin of these wheels?

What is the history of these wheels?

What have you done to rectify the situation?

Do you know anything about wheel building?

Do not top post.

--
Michael Press

jim beam said:

not all bike shops are good at wheel building. in fact, very few are.
have them show you the spoke tension with a tensiometer. if they don't
have one, smile, take your bike and leave. if they do, note the tension
and compare it to manufacturer spec. there's data in the archive here
on that. also make sure spoke tension is as even as possible
spoke-to-spoke.

I don't fully agree and I'm an amateur. When I builld up a wheel I go
through the usual lace, true, and then bring up to tension. I pluck
the spokes to get some idea of how even the tension is. Toward the
finish of the build I'll put my tensionometer on to see what the
tension actually is. Most of the time I get get the tension right
before measuring.

I would think a real wheel builder might need a tensiometer even less
than I do.

linseed oil

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good idea or
what is please seriously.
Dave
"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
> dave

Keep tightening them or your wheel will fall off.

What is the origin of these wheels?

What is the history of these wheels?

What have you done to rectify the situation?

Do you know anything about wheel building?

Do not top post.

Top posting causes loose spokes?

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

Worse than that, top posting causes world hunger!

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good idea or
what is please seriously.
Dave
"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article
> <[email hidden]>,
> "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
>> dave
>
> Keep tightening them or your wheel will fall off.

What is the origin of these wheels?

What is the history of these wheels?

What have you done to rectify the situation?

Do you know anything about wheel building?

Do not top post.

Top posting causes loose spokes?

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

In article
<[email hidden]>,
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good idea or
what is please seriously.
Dave
"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article
> <[email hidden]>,
> "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
>> dave
>
> Keep tightening them or your wheel will fall off.

What is the origin of these wheels?

What is the history of these wheels?

What have you done to rectify the situation?

Do you know anything about wheel building?

Do not top post.

Top posting causes loose spokes?

Also the main force behind rampant moral turpitude, global
warming, and cellulite,.

--
Michael Press

Sorry I didn't clarify wheel specs n weight. The wheel is a 36 spoke laced
to a 700 rigida rim vey narrow rim. My weight is 180lbs. Only carry about
10 lbs when riding this. The tires are 23cm armidillos if it matters. It's a
lightweight aluminum cannondale road bike 20 pounds if that.
Dave
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave who? said:

My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do?

Quoted message said:

I thought of putting Loctite on them or something, is this a good
idea or what is please seriously.

You didn't say how many spokes this wheel has and how much you weigh.
This information would make more apparent what the problem might be.

The only way spokes can loosen is that, under load, spokes pointing
straight down to the road become slack from overload. After all "the
wheel stands on the spokes at the bottom of the wheel", structurally
speaking. When slack spoke nipples can unscrew, while the wheel is
close to collapse against even light side loads. Most wheels seldom
experience side loads so they generally don't fail that way.

In any case, your spokes are not tight enough to carry the load borne
by the few spokes in the load affected (road contact) zone. Loctite
is not the answer, although it and similar glues have been used for
wheels that experience rattling loose spokes, a problem with many
machine built wheels (SpokePrep).

The spokes need to be tighter and possibly more of them to stay tight
and true.

Please fill in the missing information.

Jobst Brandt

Dave who? said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I thought of putting Loctite on them or something, is this a good
idea or what is please seriously.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You didn't say how many spokes this wheel has and how much you
weigh. This information would make more apparent what the problem
might be.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The only way spokes can loosen is that, under load, spokes pointing
straight down to the road become slack from overload. After all
"the wheel stands on the spokes at the bottom of the wheel",
structurally speaking. When slack spoke nipples can unscrew, while
the wheel is close to collapse against even light side loads. Most
wheels seldom experience side loads so they generally don't fail
that way.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In any case, your spokes are not tight enough to carry the load
borne by the few spokes in the load affected (road contact) zone.
Loctite is not the answer, although it and similar glues have been
used for wheels that experience rattling loose spokes, a problem
with many machine built wheels (SpokePrep).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The spokes need to be tighter and possibly more of them to stay
tight and true.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Please fill in the missing information.

Quoted message said:

Sorry I didn't clarify wheel specs n weight. The wheel is a 36 spoke
laced to a 700 Rigida rim very narrow rim. My weight is 180lbs. Only
carry about 10 lbs when riding this. The tires are 23cm armadillos
if it matters. It's a lightweight aluminum Cannondale road bike 20
pounds if that.

You might notice the sequence of above text, called bottom response,
in which the foregoing is chronologically maintained for those who see
the item for the first time. Being new to this forum, it probably
isn't self evident, but it works for the regulars.

I assumed the information you gave for my earlier response. As I
said, spoke nipples can only loosen if they become slack so therein
lies your problem rather than an overload or too few spokes. If you
choose to fix this yourself, get a good spoke wrench and carefully put
a drop of (motor) oil at every spoke nipple to rim interface from the
outside (inner diameter) of the rim before making adjustments. People
often report of stripping brass spoke nipples, something that is only
possible with high (dry) rim friction, not thread drag. Do this with
the tire removed so you can readily asses roundness and centering.

You may just have a knack for this or you could develop one from a
book that describes all these operations and their significance. The
book is available from various sources among which is:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/books.html#brandt

Jobst Brandt