Chain opinions

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:09:55 -0400, Paul Hobson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Recently I was at the LBS fairly well known as having great mechanics
who are also absolute chores to deal with (snobs). I asked for my usual
KMC Z 1/8" x 1/2" bmx chain that goes on my fixie. I like the chain b/c
it's ~6 bucks and therefore practically disposable and nickel plated
(bling!!). I'm of the opinion that serious chain cleaning isn't worth
the time unless it's something you enjoy (for whatever reason).

Their response to my query:
"Pffft. We don't sell those anymore. They're terrible chains."
Me: Oh
Them: Here, you want this. [slaps down $20 Wipperman chain].
Me: This costs more than 3x as much.
Them: Yeah, but it'll last 4x longer than some KMC.

My question: given my "wipe down heavily, lube, let dry, and wipe down
lightly" approach to chain maintenance that occurs only after riding in
the rain, would the Wipperman be worth the extra cash? For now, I've
gone down the road to the nice guys and got what I wanted.
\\paul

Dear Paul,

Road dust is what wears chains.

No one that I know of advertises bicycle chains made of special steel
that will resist wear four times as long.

O-ring chains may be a different matter, but they're not available for
bicycles.

If you had said that the new Wipperman chain cost 5 times as much as
the old KMC chain, they would probably have replied that the new
Wipperman chain would last 6 times as long, simply adding one to
whatever factor you mentioned.

Quoted message said:

Recently I was at the LBS fairly well known as having great mechanics
who are also absolute chores to deal with (snobs)

Good heavens! No one like that ever posts here. 🙂

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

"Paul Hobson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Recently I was at the LBS fairly well known as having great mechanics who
are also absolute chores to deal with (snobs). I asked for my usual KMC Z
1/8" x 1/2" bmx chain that goes on my fixie. I like the chain b/c it's ~6
bucks and therefore practically disposable and nickel plated (bling!!).
I'm of the opinion that serious chain cleaning isn't worth the time unless
it's something you enjoy (for whatever reason).

Their response to my query:
"Pffft. We don't sell those anymore. They're terrible chains."
Me: Oh
Them: Here, you want this. [slaps down $20 Wipperman chain].
Me: This costs more than 3x as much.
Them: Yeah, but it'll last 4x longer than some KMC.

My question: given my "wipe down heavily, lube, let dry, and wipe down
lightly" approach to chain maintenance that occurs only after riding in
the rain, would the Wipperman be worth the extra cash? For now, I've gone
down the road to the nice guys and got what I wanted.
\\paul
--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
.:change the f to ph to reply:.

I see it as a marketing ploy to sell something with a higher profit margin.
I use the 1/8 chains you get at Walmart. But I had to buy two and tie in a
chunk of one into the other to get the length out OK as the chains they sell
are for the 20" wheeled bikes. But it works OK, I just have to use two
masterlinks.
My LBS was kind enough to order a couple of longer 1/8" chains for me no
problem. They were the cheaper Chinese chains too, but what the heck they
were cheap.
The Wippermans are great chains, but they are pretty proud of them. I think
would go for the cheaper Wippermans and avoid the really expensive ones even
if they are super good though.

Earl Bollinger said:

"Paul Hobson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Recently I was at the LBS fairly well known as having great mechanics who
are also absolute chores to deal with (snobs). I asked for my usual KMC Z
1/8" x 1/2" bmx chain that goes on my fixie. I like the chain b/c it's ~6
bucks and therefore practically disposable and nickel plated (bling!!).
I'm of the opinion that serious chain cleaning isn't worth the time unless
it's something you enjoy (for whatever reason).

Their response to my query:
"Pffft. We don't sell those anymore. They're terrible chains."
Me: Oh
Them: Here, you want this. [slaps down $20 Wipperman chain].
Me: This costs more than 3x as much.
Them: Yeah, but it'll last 4x longer than some KMC.

My question: given my "wipe down heavily, lube, let dry, and wipe down
lightly" approach to chain maintenance that occurs only after riding in
the rain, would the Wipperman be worth the extra cash? For now, I've gone
down the road to the nice guys and got what I wanted.
\\paul
--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
.:change the f to ph to reply:.

I see it as a marketing ploy to sell something with a higher profit margin.
I use the 1/8 chains you get at Walmart. But I had to buy two and tie in a
chunk of one into the other to get the length out OK as the chains they sell
are for the 20" wheeled bikes. But it works OK, I just have to use two
masterlinks.
My LBS was kind enough to order a couple of longer 1/8" chains for me no
problem. They were the cheaper Chinese chains too, but what the heck they
were cheap.
The Wippermans are great chains, but they are pretty proud of them. I think
would go for the cheaper Wippermans and avoid the really expensive ones even
if they are super good though.

Dear Earl & Paul,

You might look into Nashbar, which sells BMX chains, usually
discounted to $6-$8:

http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?subcategory=1099&category=76&browse=&storetype=&estoreid=&brand=&searchbox=&start=1&orderby=price1&pagename=
or http://tinyurl.com/owl6x

You can call to see if they know how many links. The nickel-plated
SRAM PC-1 single-speed chain is $12 on that page.

And it's always worth checking for Nashbar coupon codes:

http://www.edealinfo.com/Coupons/nashbar.shtml

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Paul Hobson wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

My question: given my "wipe down heavily, lube, let dry, and wipe down
lightly" approach to chain maintenance that occurs only after riding in
the rain, would the Wipperman be worth the extra cash?

For a single speed, who gives a [censored]? They're blowing smoke up your ass
about the Wipperman. I used to use the bmx ones from the department
stores, almost always KMC, but have taken a like to the 7/8 speed
Nashbar chains, which are made by none other than KMC. Nice and quiet.
Usually on sale for 5 bucks. Or even smarter, wait till they have their
tandem chains on sale and you can end up with $3 fixie chains. KMC
nickel chain you're currently using is fine as well.

Paul Hobson said:

Recently I was at the LBS fairly well known as having great mechanics
who are also absolute chores to deal with (snobs). I asked for my usual
KMC Z 1/8" x 1/2" bmx chain that goes on my fixie. I like the chain b/c
it's ~6 bucks and therefore practically disposable and nickel plated
(bling!!).

I have no idea what kind of chain I have on my (like new)
Non-Suspension '94 Specialized Rockhopper (converted with Bontrager
Comfort tires for the street). For all I know it may be original as
are, still, all the other components.

What I do know is that, when having measured it on various occasions,
it has not and is not stretched.

Quoted message said:

I'm of the opinion that serious chain cleaning isn't worth
the time unless it's something you enjoy (for whatever reason).

I do brush the chain, while still on the bike, cassette, chainrings and
rear derailleur ring about once every three months with a dollar store
denture brush and a one dollar can of engine degreaser from Auto
Zone---while using some old newspapers to protect the rear tire and
rims.

The can of engine degreaser lasts over a year and the denture brush
indefinitely.

I did pick up a three dollar Y-Bar, for three bucks, at a yard sale to
hold the rear end of the bike up off the ground while giving the drive
chain a spin---and, if I need to, adjust the derailleurs.

I then rinse the degreaser off with a garden hose and splash the chain
deraileur wheel, chain rings and casette with dollar store transmission
fluid and, after a moment or so, wipe all down with an old rag.

The whole proceedure takes about five minutes.

Thereafter, when, every three or four weeks or so, I may hear the chain
squeak, I only then, but immediately dribble just a few drops of
transmission fluid on the chain portion in the casette.

The chain and whole drive train are in perfect condition and I've been
riding this particular bike everyday for about five years.

While I too am not overly concerned with wear and tear, keeping
especially the chain clean keeps the shifting smooth and relatively
effortless.

P.S.: I do keep a tiny can of Tiger Balm in my wedge. It principly
serves two purposes: one dabbing mosquito bites on me, and, if it is
raining and the chain begins to squeak, I put one or two dabs on the
chain. It doesn't last long which is o.k. because it always lasts at
least as long as the duration of the rain.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Earl Bollinger said:

"Paul Hobson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Recently I was at the LBS fairly well known as having great mechanics
who
are also absolute chores to deal with (snobs). I asked for my usual KMC
Z
1/8" x 1/2" bmx chain that goes on my fixie. I like the chain b/c it's
~6
bucks and therefore practically disposable and nickel plated (bling!!).
I'm of the opinion that serious chain cleaning isn't worth the time
unless
it's something you enjoy (for whatever reason).

Their response to my query:
"Pffft. We don't sell those anymore. They're terrible chains."
Me: Oh
Them: Here, you want this. [slaps down $20 Wipperman chain].
Me: This costs more than 3x as much.
Them: Yeah, but it'll last 4x longer than some KMC.

My question: given my "wipe down heavily, lube, let dry, and wipe down
lightly" approach to chain maintenance that occurs only after riding in
the rain, would the Wipperman be worth the extra cash? For now, I've
gone
down the road to the nice guys and got what I wanted.
\\paul
--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
.:change the f to ph to reply:.

I see it as a marketing ploy to sell something with a higher profit
margin.
I use the 1/8 chains you get at Walmart. But I had to buy two and tie in a
chunk of one into the other to get the length out OK as the chains they
sell
are for the 20" wheeled bikes. But it works OK, I just have to use two
masterlinks.
My LBS was kind enough to order a couple of longer 1/8" chains for me no
problem. They were the cheaper Chinese chains too, but what the heck they
were cheap.
The Wippermans are great chains, but they are pretty proud of them. I
think
would go for the cheaper Wippermans and avoid the really expensive ones
even
if they are super good though.

Dear Earl & Paul,

You might look into Nashbar, which sells BMX chains, usually
discounted to $6-$8:

http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?subcategory=1099&category=76&browse=&storetype=&estoreid=&brand=&searchbox=&start=1&orderby=price1&pagename=
or http://tinyurl.com/owl6x

You can call to see if they know how many links. The nickel-plated
SRAM PC-1 single-speed chain is $12 on that page.

And it's always worth checking for Nashbar coupon codes:

http://www.edealinfo.com/Coupons/nashbar.shtml

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

You are right, Nashbar seems to have good deals on chains quite often.
For my 9 speed bikes...
I am real fond of the Nashabr Recumbent chains myself. For $14.95 you get a
extra long double length chain. You break it in half and you get two chains.
Using a SRAM quick link does work quite well too.
I did use a Wipperman Stainless chain, that I had gotten on sale once,
although it is a really nice chain, it is really tough to justify the price
of it though.

Paul Hobson said:

Recently I was at the LBS fairly well known as having great
mechanics who are also absolute chores to deal with (snobs). I
asked for my usual KMC Z 1/8" x 1/2" BMX chain that goes on my
fixie. I like the chain b/c it's ~6 bucks and therefore practically
disposable and nickel plated (bling!!). I'm of the opinion that
serious chain cleaning isn't worth the time unless it's something
you enjoy (for whatever reason).

Quoted message said:

Their response to my query:
"Pffft. We don't sell those anymore. They're terrible chains."
Me: Oh
Them: Here, you want this. [slaps down $20 Wipperman chain].
Me: This costs more than 3x as much.
Them: Yeah, but it'll last 4x longer than some KMC.

Quoted message said:

My question: given my "wipe down heavily, lube, let dry, and wipe
down lightly" approach to chain maintenance that occurs only after
riding in the rain, would the Wipperman be worth the extra cash?
For now, I've gone down the road to the nice guys and got what I
wanted.

You might ask them what is so markedly different in these chains that
makes them last so much longer, and why, if they are made of steel,
would other manufacturers not use the same steel, the cost of material
being insignificant to the cost of a chain.

The only chains that I have found to last as much as twice as many
miles were the 5-piece chains whose pins ran in sleeves on which the
roller was mounted. These chains went away more than ten years ago
with the advent of MTB's with tiny drive sprockets (tripling chain
tension) to give greater tensile strength while reducing manufacturing
cost.

Jobst Brandt

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:09:55 -0400, Paul Hobson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

(bling!!). I'm of the opinion that serious chain cleaning isn't worth
the time unless it's something you enjoy (for whatever reason).

Amen to that brother: ciclying is much funnier than chain cleaning!
(Specialy if you do road riding only.)

Ride your 2 wheels, but in order to ride them yet another day!
jbr

Quoted message said:

Paul Hobson said:

Recently I was at the LBS fairly well known as having great
mechanics who are also absolute chores to deal with (snobs). I
asked for my usual KMC Z 1/8" x 1/2" BMX chain that goes on my
fixie. I like the chain b/c it's ~6 bucks and therefore practically
disposable and nickel plated (bling!!). I'm of the opinion that
serious chain cleaning isn't worth the time unless it's something
you enjoy (for whatever reason).

Quoted message said:

Their response to my query:
"Pffft. We don't sell those anymore. They're terrible chains."
Me: Oh
Them: Here, you want this. [slaps down $20 Wipperman chain].
Me: This costs more than 3x as much.
Them: Yeah, but it'll last 4x longer than some KMC.

Quoted message said:

My question: given my "wipe down heavily, lube, let dry, and wipe
down lightly" approach to chain maintenance that occurs only after
riding in the rain, would the Wipperman be worth the extra cash?
For now, I've gone down the road to the nice guys and got what I
wanted.

You might ask them what is so markedly different in these chains that
makes them last so much longer, and why, if they are made of steel,
would other manufacturers not use the same steel, the cost of material
being insignificant to the cost of a chain.

that's not true. the material cost for titanium chain is very
significant. stainless is not exactly cheap either. fact is, materials
vary significantly in quality and cost. those variables have a major
effect on production cost.

Quoted message said:

The only chains that I have found to last as much as twice as many
miles were the 5-piece chains whose pins ran in sleeves on which the
roller was mounted. These chains went away more than ten years ago

i ran my first sedis sport, the first bushingless chain, nearly 28 years
ago. sedis sport's lasted just as long as the bushed chains i'd been
using previously. the nay-sayers were itching to complain about them,
but they shifted /much/ better, cost no more and lasted just as long,
hence they've stuck around.

Quoted message said:

with the advent of MTB's with tiny drive sprockets (tripling chain
tension) to give greater tensile strength while reducing manufacturing
cost.

but:

1. this contradicts your argument about material costs being insignificant.

2. it has no relevance to a road bike's chain life.

3. where's the connection between the presence [or not] of a bushing and
tensile strength??? roller load is never singly borne so that's not a
major factor, and side-plate/pin strength is the same regardless.

aka Jobst Brandt said:

...
The only chains that I have found to last as much as twice as many
miles were the 5-piece chains whose pins ran in sleeves on which the
roller was mounted. These chains went away more than ten years ago
with the advent of MTB's with tiny drive sprockets (tripling chain
tension) to give greater tensile strength while reducing manufacturing
cost.

The difference is illustrated here:
<http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html> [1].

[1] Your cue to insert a flame about "brown-nosing", Mr. Ozark Bicycle.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

The alcoholic one said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Recently I was at the LBS fairly well known as having great
mechanics who are also absolute chores to deal with (snobs). I
asked for my usual KMC Z 1/8" x 1/2" BMX chain that goes on my
fixie. I like the chain b/c it's ~6 bucks and therefore
practically disposable and nickel plated (bling!!). I'm of the
opinion that serious chain cleaning isn't worth the time unless
it's something you enjoy (for whatever reason).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Their response to my query:
"Pffft. We don't sell those anymore. They're terrible chains."
Me: Oh
Them: Here, you want this. [slaps down $20 Wipperman chain].
Me: This costs more than 3x as much.
Them: Yeah, but it'll last 4x longer than some KMC.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My question: given my "wipe down heavily, lube, let dry, and wipe
down lightly" approach to chain maintenance that occurs only after
riding in the rain, would the Wipperman be worth the extra cash?
For now, I've gone down the road to the nice guys and got what I
wanted.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You might ask them what is so markedly different in these chains
that makes them last so much longer, and why, if they are made of
steel, would other manufacturers not use the same steel, the cost
of material being insignificant to the cost of a chain.

Quoted message said:

that's not true. the material cost for titanium chain is very
significant. stainless is not exactly cheap either. fact is,
materials vary significantly in quality and cost. those variables
have a major effect on production cost.

Both stainless and titanium chains are out of competition for wear
life, they having poorer galling resistance and strength. For
mainstream useful chains out of the boutique realm, steel is the
material of interest. Its cost is irrelevant in the cost of the
chain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The only chains that I have found to last as much as twice as many
miles were the 5-piece chains whose pins ran in sleeves on which
the roller was mounted. These chains went away more than ten years
ago

Quoted message said:

i ran my first sedis sport, the first bushingless chain, nearly 28
years ago. sedis sport's lasted just as long as the bushed chains
i'd been using previously. the nay-sayers were itching to complain
about them, but they shifted /much/ better, cost no more and lasted
just as long, hence they've stuck around.

That may be your assessment but the direct path from outside to the
link pin through the split tube in which it runs in 4-part chains is a
major deleter of lubricant with even slight water and it reduces
bearing surface for the pin. On inspection of a disassembled worn
chain, wear grooves show that this is the case and not so on sleeved
5-part chains.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with the advent of MTB's with tiny drive sprockets (tripling chain
tension) to give greater tensile strength while reducing
manufacturing cost.

Quoted message said:

but:

Quoted message said:

1. this contradicts your argument about material costs being
insignificant.

Quoted message said:

2. it has no relevance to a road bike's chain life.

Quoted message said:

3. where's the connection between the presence [or not] of a bushing and
tensile strength??? roller load is never singly borne so that's not a
major factor, and side-plate/pin strength is the same regardless.

A side plate of an upset-collar 4-part chain has a hole the size of
the pin and leaving a larger cross section than a sleeved chain and
additionally has an upset collar serving as a hole reinforcement. In
contrast the side plate of a 5-part (sleeved) chain has a hole about
twice as large (for the sleeve) and leaving about half as much side
plate cross section when considering the upset collar on the 4-part
chain.

Material cost remains insignificant although the 4-part chain has
fewer assembly operations.

These effects should answer your listed objections 1..3.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

The alcoholic one said:

Quoted message said:

> Recently I was at the LBS fairly well known as having great
> mechanics who are also absolute chores to deal with (snobs). I
> asked for my usual KMC Z 1/8" x 1/2" BMX chain that goes on my
> fixie. I like the chain b/c it's ~6 bucks and therefore
> practically disposable and nickel plated (bling!!). I'm of the
> opinion that serious chain cleaning isn't worth the time unless
> it's something you enjoy (for whatever reason).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Their response to my query:
> "Pffft. We don't sell those anymore. They're terrible chains."
> Me: Oh
> Them: Here, you want this. [slaps down $20 Wipperman chain].
> Me: This costs more than 3x as much.
> Them: Yeah, but it'll last 4x longer than some KMC.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> My question: given my "wipe down heavily, lube, let dry, and wipe
> down lightly" approach to chain maintenance that occurs only after
> riding in the rain, would the Wipperman be worth the extra cash?
> For now, I've gone down the road to the nice guys and got what I
> wanted.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You might ask them what is so markedly different in these chains
that makes them last so much longer, and why, if they are made of
steel, would other manufacturers not use the same steel, the cost
of material being insignificant to the cost of a chain.

Quoted message said:

that's not true. the material cost for titanium chain is very
significant. stainless is not exactly cheap either. fact is,
materials vary significantly in quality and cost. those variables
have a major effect on production cost.

Both stainless and titanium chains are out of competition for wear
life, they having poorer galling resistance and strength. For
mainstream useful chains out of the boutique realm, steel is the
material of interest. Its cost is irrelevant in the cost of the
chain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The only chains that I have found to last as much as twice as many
miles were the 5-piece chains whose pins ran in sleeves on which
the roller was mounted. These chains went away more than ten years
ago

Quoted message said:

i ran my first sedis sport, the first bushingless chain, nearly 28
years ago. sedis sport's lasted just as long as the bushed chains
i'd been using previously. the nay-sayers were itching to complain
about them, but they shifted /much/ better, cost no more and lasted
just as long, hence they've stuck around.

That may be your assessment but the direct path from outside to the
link pin through the split tube in which it runs in 4-part chains is a
major deleter of lubricant with even slight water and it reduces
bearing surface for the pin. On inspection of a disassembled worn
chain, wear grooves show that this is the case and not so on sleeved
5-part chains.

i'm well aware of how chain is made thanks. i'm also well aware of the
arguments of why bushing chain "should" last longer. but practical
experience of myself and others in my club at the time the sedis sport
came in, contradicted those fears. if modern chain doesn't last quite
as long, it's a dimensional issue with super-narrow chain, not a bushing
issue.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with the advent of MTB's with tiny drive sprockets (tripling chain
tension) to give greater tensile strength while reducing
manufacturing cost.

Quoted message said:

but:

Quoted message said:

1. this contradicts your argument about material costs being
insignificant.

Quoted message said:

2. it has no relevance to a road bike's chain life.

Quoted message said:

3. where's the connection between the presence [or not] of a bushing and
tensile strength??? roller load is never singly borne so that's not a
major factor, and side-plate/pin strength is the same regardless.

A side plate of an upset-collar 4-part chain has a hole the size of
the pin and leaving a larger cross section than a sleeved chain and
additionally has an upset collar serving as a hole reinforcement. In
contrast the side plate of a 5-part (sleeved) chain has a hole about
twice as large (for the sleeve) and leaving about half as much side
plate cross section when considering the upset collar on the 4-part
chain.

by that argument, the bushing chain should be weaker...

reality is however, dimensions/material being equal, both chains are
about the same.

Quoted message said:

Material cost remains insignificant although the 4-part chain has
fewer assembly operations.

eh? what about the shaping of the side plates??? you can't shape the
necks that retain the roller on bushingless chain /and/ punch the holes
at the same time like plain-jane bushing chain. it's therefore just the
same number of operations, but absent one part, the bushing.

Quoted message said:

These effects should answer your listed objections 1..3.

they're not objections - they're inconsistencies in your argument.

aka Jobst Brandt said:

Both stainless and titanium chains are out of competition for wear
life, they having poorer galling resistance and strength. For
mainstream useful chains out of the boutique realm, steel is the
material of interest. Its cost is irrelevant in the cost of the
chain.

Jobst,

Rohloff make a 24 carat gold plated chain [1]. 😉

Speaking of Rohloff, do you see any merits to the S-L-T 99 [2] chain
(beyond higher selling price for the manufacturer, distributor and
retailer?

[1] <http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/gifts/index.html>.
[2] <http://www.rohloffusa.com/frame.htm>, click on "Products" and
"S-L-T 99" [3].
[3] *%#^! frames that prevent a direct link.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:09:55 -0400, Paul Hobson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My question: given my "wipe down heavily, lube, let dry, and wipe down
lightly" approach to chain maintenance that occurs only after riding in
the rain, would the Wipperman be worth the extra cash?

No. Shop elsewhere.

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

Both stainless and titanium chains are out of competition for wear
life, they having poorer galling resistance and strength. For
mainstream useful chains out of the boutique realm, steel is the
material of interest. Its cost is irrelevant in the cost of the
chain.

Quoted message said:

Rohloff make a 24 carat gold plated chain [1]. 😉

Quoted message said:

Speaking of Rohloff, do you see any merits to the S-L-T 99 [2] chain
(beyond higher selling price for the manufacturer, distributor and
retailer?

Quoted message said:

[1] <http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/gifts/index.html>.
[2] <http://www.rohloffusa.com/frame.htm>, click on "Products" and
"S-L-T 99" [3].
[3] *%#^! frames that prevent a direct link.

I think I've said enough about chains and chain cleaning (FAQ) and
choose to use SRAM 6-speed chains, of which I have a fat boxful, and
toss mine out when worn to more than 1/16" per foot. I don't consider
the chain to be anything more than a utility item that should serve
its purpose of transmitting pedal force to the rear wheel.

Jobst Brandt