Stride Rate

(Rob) said:

My greatest obstacle in increasing my speed is improving my stride rate. I already have good stride
length. Can somebody please advise me in a good workout?

Robbie.

Move your legs faster.

Rob said:

My greatest obstacle in increasing my speed is improving my stride rate.

For curiosity, what makes you think leg turnover is your limiting factor? as opposed to having
better LT, VO2max, economy, or any number of other factors.

Quoted message said:

I already have good stride length. Can somebody please advise me in a good workout?

You don't say what your cadence is or what you are trying to achieve or whether you're a sprinter or
long distance runner, beginner / experienced, but on the assumption it might be around 160 footfalls
/ min and you're trying to get near to 180 / min or better (a common move), you might try
*shortening* your stride and be sure you're not striking on back of heel, which acts as a brake. As
you get stronger over time, you may find your stride length increasing again.

Others more knowledgeable will probably contribute but you'll probably need to provide more info for
them, like some training background and goals.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

In total agreement with Dot.

I heard that to speed up your stride rate, you pump your arms faster and the legs follow. That could
be a load of rubbish, because I've never needed to try it, but it might work for you.

Instinct tells me that doing some fast intervals where you have a very fast cadence will probably do
the trick, if only to teach your legs what it feels like to be going quickly. Concentrate on a short
stride at first, and as you become stronger and faster, the trailing leg will be left further and
further behind, increasing your stride length.

Best, Dave

--
To email, remove SPAM.com and replace with wadham DOT oxford DOT ac DOT uk

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

and be sure you're not striking on back of heel, which acts as a brake.

What exactly do you mean by that? Are you saying that your foot should not land heel-first? Why
would that act as a brake? I'm confused because that's how I run (for long distances anyway).

Any good links on the mechanics of the feet and running?

Amdi

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and be sure you're not striking on back of heel, which acts as a brake.

What exactly do you mean by that? Are you saying that your foot should not land heel-first? Why
would that act as a brake? I'm confused because that's how I run (for long distances anyway).

Do a google search of the group and you find a whole bunch of info. Basically, if you hit with your
heel, you're using a lot of energy to drive your leg into the ground, which a) slows you down and b)
hammers your legs. Some people do get away with heel-striking, but the consensus is that you should
land on your ball / midfoot. Achieve this by shortening your stride and making sure your feet land
beneath your centre of gravity.

Best, Dave

Amdi8 said:

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

and be sure you're not striking on back of heel, which acts as a brake.

What exactly do you mean by that? Are you saying that your foot should not land heel-first?

correct

Why would that act as a brake?

Your foot is in front of your center of gravity so when it hits it pushes back.

Quoted message said:

I'm confused because that's how I run (for long distances anyway).

Try barefoot running or walking, esp on a hard surface and see which way you land - but don't hurt
yourself. The high heels on many running shoes sometimes make it difficult to run with a mid-foot or
fore-foot landing, esp. on downhills, but for me, the switch to about 180 cadence (I may be closer
to 170 on trails right now), smaller stride, and mid-foot landing made a huge difference in my
running (more toward fore-foot on hills, sometimes just back of mid-foot = front of heel on slow,
flat runs). I find a fore-foot landing more stable on uneven or snow-covered trails. Plus the foot
can absorb the shock, rather than hitting on back of heel where there is nothing in the body to
absorb shock. Hence the reason for the barefoot running or walking test to see the benefits.

One caution is that it may put more stress on calves and achilles if you're not used to it,
so investigate slowly. Some supplementary strength training for feet, achilles, calves might
be helpful.

Quoted message said:

Any good links on the mechanics of the feet and running?

mindfulness.commrb4.aspOpen ↗

You might also google the group for fore foot, heel strike, etc. "heel forefoot midfoot 180" pulled
up several of the prior threads and the idiosyncrasies of what worked for various people.

texastrack.comcoaching article 5.htmOpen ↗

This is more along the lines of stride rate / length. pponline.co.uk0122.htmOpen ↗

I thought I had some others, but several links are dead.

Hope this helps.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in news:fE8hb.173969$3o3.12830571@bgtnsc05- news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

Quoted message said:

Your foot is in front of your center of gravity so when it hits it pushes back.

Thanks for the explanation and the links. I'm going to devour them right now and do some tests in my
mid-day run today.

Amdi

Noel Llopis said:

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in news:fE8hb.173969$3o3.12830571@bgtnsc05- news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

Quoted message said:

Your foot is in front of your center of gravity so when it hits it pushes back.

Thanks for the explanation and the links. I'm going to devour them right now and do some tests in
my mid-day run today.

My usual conservative disclaimer - do not make sudden radical changes to your form. Even if your
form totally sucks your body has adapted. Trying to revamp overnight will get you on the injured
list. Adjust slowly over weeks.

--
Doug Freese [email hidden]

Robbie,

Here's what I've concluded over the years that makes sense for my simple mind...

Stride rate comes first at ~180 steps per minute... Stride length determines speed... Stride length
comes from the push off, not reaching...

Hope this helps...

Spunky2Be said:

Robbie,

Quoted message said:

Here's what I've concluded over the years that makes sense for my simple mind...

Quoted message said:

Stride rate comes first at ~180 steps per minute... Stride length determines speed... Stride
length comes from the push off, not reaching...

Quoted message said:

Hope this helps...

---You've been getting excellent advice...Stride rate first, then length. Don't worry at all about
your stride length. Work on cadence. There are only 2 ways to run faster....faster cadence and
longer stride length. Since most decent racers from 20 min 5k to 14 min 5k use roughly the same
cadence, this tells us that the 14 min guys are going faster due to longer stride length. Does this
mean they worked on lengthening their stride to get faster? Of course not. It tells us that they
worked on strength and developing the aerobic capacity to allow their muscles to make energy quickly
enough to allow them to handle the energy expenditure of running with a longer stride length. What
you can take from this is get your cadence up. You can use 400m drills that can either be high-speed
repeats, or just 5k-paced cadence- training intervals to practice getting your cadence up. As you
get stronger and more fit from training, your stride length will increase on its own. Andy Hass

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Spunky2Be wrote in article
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Here's what I've concluded over the years that makes sense for my simple mind...

Quoted message said:

Stride rate comes first at ~180 steps per minute... Stride length determines speed...

Or not . . . :-)

Quoted message said:

Stride length comes from the push off, not reaching...

ISTM that speed determines stride length, assuming a constant maximum angle between the legs. The
legs don't act like a draftman's divider with both ends in contact with the ground at the same time,
but like an arch with the rear foot leaving the ground while the whole structure moves forward
before the front foot contacts the ground. IOW with a stationary stride length of 30 inches, the
distance between liftoff and touchdown will be something more than 30 inches when running, the
distance somewhat proportional to speed.

Some time ago I posted about how I, about 6' tall, and one of my running partners, 5'2" at most,
unconsciously fell into synchronized stride rates on many of our runs--IOW, her short legs were
covering the same stride length as my longer ones. Her leg angle may have been greater than mine,
but her stride length wasn't. I suspect other runners have had the same experience.
--
Don [email hidden]

I was in a race last week in which there was a contingent of Marines. They were in a group, and
singing cadence most of the way (5k). I felt like I was "dancing to the wrong tune!" -- their
cadence isn't mine, and I generally tune my breathing to my steps.... But it was still fun, and
great to have them there. bj

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here's what I've concluded over the years that makes sense for my simple mind...

Quoted message said:

Stride rate comes first at ~180 steps per minute... Stride length determines speed... Stride
length comes from the push off, not reaching...

Quoted message said:

Hope this helps...

---You've been getting excellent advice...Stride rate first, then length. Don't worry at all about
your stride length. Work on cadence. There are only 2 ways to run faster....faster cadence and
longer stride length. Since most decent racers from 20 min 5k to 14 min 5k use roughly the same
cadence, this tells us that the 14 min guys are going faster due to longer stride length. Does
this mean they worked on lengthening their stride to get faster? Of course not. It tells us that
they worked on strength and developing the aerobic capacity to allow their muscles to make energy
quickly enough to allow them to handle the energy expenditure of running with a longer stride
length. What you can take from this is get your cadence up. You can use 400m drills that can
either be high-speed repeats, or just 5k-paced cadence- training intervals to practice getting
your cadence up. As you get stronger and more fit from training, your stride length will increase
on its own. Andy Hass

To get instant feedback on cadence, speed, stride length and footstrike, practice on a gym treadmill
with mirrors.

Keeping your running quiet reduces wear and tear. Some (non)runners seem to hammer the treads and
make so much noise you cringe. You can gain efficiency by directing your energy forward rather than
bouncing up and down. This makes you quiet. Track vertical motion of your head--can you keep it on
the level? Even as you push your speed limit?

As my speed increases from 6mph/10mpermile to 9mph/6m40spermile (up 50%), e.g., cadence increases
from 162 to 182 spm (~12%), and stride increases from 3.3 feet to 4.5 feet (~36%) without any
special effort to modify it. At a given speed I can increase cadence by pushing off sooner after
footstrike. By not extending the knee quite so much just prior to foortstrike you achieve some of
the benefits.

As speed increases and cadence/turnover increases I recruit more of my forefoot, and get more
spring in the pushoff. When climbing an incline at the same speed, stride shortens and cadence
increases. When returning to level, it feels like running downhill and requires an adjustment to
avoid losing form.

None of this requires a forefoot strike, and even elite runners in a world class marathon make
first contact with the heel. Record some yourself and play them back in slomo. On occasion I have
been able to run quietly at 12mph/5minpermile with a heel strike, though not all treadmills go
above 10mph.

To get up on your toes, try running backwards at, say, 6.5 mph/9m16spermile, for 200 steps. Then
turn around and you can easily run on your toes, at least until the effect wears off.

Adding some hills on the treadmill, better simulates my outdoor running. You can do this manually,
or, with program options.