I was looking at a program on Channel 5 this evening. In the advert slot it featured a sequence with a kid riding on the pavement (brushing a woman pushing a buggy), a roadie and some BMX type stunts.
At the beginning I was wondering what it was trying to say. Then it featured some helmets (empty) being drop tested. Ah! Which manufacturer is doing this?
Then - oh no! - "Wearing a helmet makes sense, so wear one. THINK!"
They have a good one for motorcycles, showing diesel spills, tractors turning and so on. "Not all hazards are signposted. THINK".
So why is cycling getting helmet propaganda for goodness sake?
I was looking at a program on Channel 5 this evening. In the advert slot it featured a sequence with a kid riding on the pavement (brushing a woman pushing a buggy), a roadie and some BMX type stunts.
At the beginning I was wondering what it was trying to say. Then it featured some helmets (empty) being drop tested. Ah! Which manufacturer is doing this?
Then - oh no! - "Wearing a helmet makes sense, so wear one. THINK!" ... So why is cycling getting helmet propaganda for goodness sake?
Because the DfT is fixedly pro-helmet, and has money.
It would be useful to know how often this drivel is being aired - anyone seen it twice, for example?
Colin McKenzie
-- On average in Britain, you're more likely to get a head injury walking a mile than cycling it. So why aren't we all exhorted to wear walking helmets?
I was looking at a program on Channel 5 this evening. In the advert slot it featured a sequence with a kid riding on the pavement (brushing a woman pushing a buggy), a roadie and some BMX type stunts. At the beginning I was wondering what it was trying to say. Then it featured some helmets (empty) being drop tested. Ah! Which manufacturer is doing this?
Then - oh no! - "Wearing a helmet makes sense, so wear one. THINK!" ... So why is cycling getting helmet propaganda for goodness sake?
Because the DfT is fixedly pro-helmet, and has money.
It would be useful to know how often this drivel is being aired - anyone seen it twice, for example?
I've seen it once and my better half has seen it twice, the last time was a few weeks ago. -- Cheers the.Mark
I was looking at a program on Channel 5 this evening. In the advert slot it featured a sequence with a kid riding on the pavement (brushing a woman pushing a buggy), a roadie and some BMX type stunts.
At the beginning I was wondering what it was trying to say. Then it featured some helmets (empty) being drop tested. Ah! Which manufacturer is doing this?
Then - oh no! - "Wearing a helmet makes sense, so wear one. THINK!" ... So why is cycling getting helmet propaganda for goodness sake?
Because the DfT is fixedly pro-helmet, and has money.
It would be useful to know how often this drivel is being aired - anyone seen it twice, for example?
I have only seen it once a couple of weeks ago, late at night.
So why is cycling getting helmet propaganda for goodness sake?
Because the DfT is fixedly pro-helmet, and has money.
I wonder if DfT et al (mistakenly) believe that cycle helmets provide the same protection as motorcycle helmets.. If that's what they do believe, then it would explain a lot.
I wonder if DfT et al (mistakenly) believe that cycle helmets provide the same protection as motorcycle helmets.. If that's what they do believe, then it would explain a lot.
The DfT, I get the impression, believe that the report (RSR30) they commissioned a few years ago tells them everything they need to know.
Though sadly it is the unsurprising case that it appears it was written by someone who seemed to have decided that anything that didn't fit the preconceived conclusion that Helmets Are Good could reasonably be ignored as Off Message.
Having gone to all the trouble of commissioning a report it's not too surprising they set some store by it. However, the fact that it's apparently biased and flawed seems to be off the radar :-(
Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:36:53 +0100 someone who may be Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote this:-
Quoted message said:
The DfT, I get the impression, believe that the report (RSR30) they commissioned a few years ago tells them everything they need to know.
You are assuming that Department for Roads officials are honest. That is a big assumption to make.
Of course the report says what those who commissioned it want it to say. Many reports are like that.
Quoted message said:
Having gone to all the trouble of commissioning a report it's not too surprising they set some store by it. However, the fact that it's apparently biased and flawed seems to be off the radar :-(
No, they held the same views before they commissioned a report to tell them what they wanted to hear.
"Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity"
What if they're malicious as a direct result of their stupidity? ;-/
Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
So why is cycling getting helmet propaganda for goodness sake?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Because the DfT is fixedly pro-helmet, and has money.
I wonder if DfT et al (mistakenly) believe that cycle helmets provide the same protection as motorcycle helmets.. If that's what they do believe, then it would explain a lot.
When the DfT commisions these ads, one presumes they would consult experts in the field. I don't have motorcycle experience but by extrapolating my road cycling experience, it seems reasonable they probably did (any takers for informed comment?). Clearly, in this helmet propaganda piece they have not sought advice from anybody that knows anything about cycling - on top of which they lump stunt riding with road cycling.
The motorcycle piece seems to tell us - "don't crash". Good. The cycle piece says - "wear a helmet"... and then what? What should I be THINKing about (other than what's the point)?
When the DfT commisions these ads, one presumes they would consult experts in the field. I don't have motorcycle experience but by extrapolating my road cycling experience, it seems reasonable they probably did (any takers for informed comment?). Clearly, in this helmet propaganda piece they have not sought advice from anybody that knows anything about cycling - on top of which they lump stunt riding with road cycling.
You might think that they would have asked their own National Cycling Strategy Board when it existed. But of course that would not have given the answer they wanted so they couldn't.
-- Tony
"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
When the DfT commisions these ads, one presumes they would consult experts in the field. I don't have motorcycle experience but by extrapolating my road cycling experience, it seems reasonable they probably did (any takers for informed comment?). Clearly, in this helmet propaganda piece they have not sought advice from anybody that knows anything about cycling - on top of which they lump stunt riding with road cycling.
You might think that they would have asked their own National Cycling Strategy Board when it existed. But of course that would not have given the answer they wanted so they couldn't.
I am trying to work out why they want a particular answer. I suppose it's a desire to be perceived to be doing ...something...
You might think that they would have asked their own National Cycling Strategy Board when it existed. But of course that would not have given the answer they wanted so they couldn't.
I am trying to work out why they want a particular answer. I suppose it's a desire to be perceived to be doing ...something...
Preconceptions? The Berlin Police commissioned the collection of data to demonstrate how good their cycle facilities were. Once the data started showing they were four times more dangerous than the roads, they stopped collecting the data.
I can quite see someone else in the DfT, having set out on the "helmets are good", path finding it difficult to admit they were wrong. Otherwise why would there be constant emphasis on helmets and cycle facilities, both of which are known at best to be safety neutral and in the case of facilities, virtually the only situation I know where Government is actively promoting the more dangerous option.
-- Tony
"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
When the DfT commisions these ads, one presumes they would consult experts in the field. I don't have motorcycle experience but by extrapolating my road cycling experience, it seems reasonable they probably did (any takers for informed comment?). Clearly, in this helmet propaganda piece they have not sought advice from anybody that knows anything about cycling - on top of which they lump stunt riding with road cycling.
You might think that they would have asked their own National Cycling Strategy Board when it existed. But of course that would not have given the answer they wanted so they couldn't.
Quoted message said:
I am trying to work out why they want a particular answer. I suppose it's a desire to be perceived to be doing ...something...
I think they're not very bright and get bees in their bonnet. Many years ago they decided that leg protectors on motorcycles would be such a good things it ought to be made illegal not to have them. Despite lots of controversy and explanation from motorycling bodies about why this was a very bad idea, pointers to *good* research studies as opposed to what they'd done, they pushed ahead obstinately. Legislation was only avoided at the last minute when a consortium of manufacturers and other interested parties got together to make a video with a crash dummy that showed very clearly why they were a stupid idea (they saved your knees at the expense of breaking all sorts of other bones).
-- Chris Malcolm [email hidden] DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
