Illegal iPod While Cycling?

In article <[email hidden]>, dc1999
@gmail.com says...

Quoted message said:

Here's a copy of California Vehicle Code sect 27400, which appears to
forbid the use of earplugs or headsets of any kind while driving an
auto or bicycle. Are the iPod's "earbuds" the same as "earplugs?"
This code section is cited and displayed on a sign on one of Irvine's
bike trails.

I would assume so. If it goes into the ear, it's an earplug.

Quoted message said:

27400. A person operating a motor vehicle or bicycle may not wear a
headset covering, or earplugs in, both ears.

^^^^^^^^^
-----------------------------------------^
Interesting. It would seem that you could wear an earbud in one ear, but not
both. You might get to have your iPod and eat, errr, jam to it, too.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

DC1999 said:

Here's a copy of California Vehicle Code sect 27400, which appears to
forbid the use of earplugs or headsets of any kind while driving an
auto or bicycle. Are the iPod's "earbuds" the same as "earplugs?"

Not if you're trying to find a loophole to allow them (see (d) below).

I use ear buds, but I'm not above removing the left one when encountering a
cop. (I would think what they're /really/ looking for is someone cruising
along totally oblivious to his or her surroundings. So look aware!)

Quoted message said:

This code section is cited and displayed on a sign on one of Irvine's
bike trails.

27400. A person operating a motor vehicle or bicycle may not wear a
headset covering, or earplugs in, both ears. This prohibition does
not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person operating authorized emergency vehicles, as defined
in Section 165.
(b) A person engaged in the operation of either special
construction equipment or equipment for use in the maintenance of any
highway.
(c) A person engaged in the operation of refuse collection
equipment who is wearing a safety headset or safety earplugs.
(d) A person wearing personal hearing protectors in the form of
earplugs or molds that are specifically designed to attenuate
injurious noise levels. The plugs or molds shall be designed in a
manner so as to not inhibit the wearer's ability to hear a siren or
horn from an emergency vehicle or a horn from another motor vehicle.

(e) A person using a prosthetic device that aids the hard of
hearing.

(copied from findlaw.com)

DC1999 said:

Here's a copy of California Vehicle Code sect 27400, which appears to
forbid the use of earplugs or headsets of any kind while driving an
auto or bicycle. Are the iPod's "earbuds" the same as "earplugs?"
This code section is cited and displayed on a sign on one of Irvine's
bike trails.

27400. A person operating a motor vehicle or bicycle may not wear a
headset covering, or earplugs in, both ears. This prohibition does
not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person operating authorized emergency vehicles, as defined
in Section 165.
(b) A person engaged in the operation of either special
construction equipment or equipment for use in the maintenance of any
highway.
(c) A person engaged in the operation of refuse collection
equipment who is wearing a safety headset or safety earplugs.
(d) A person wearing personal hearing protectors in the form of
earplugs or molds that are specifically designed to attenuate
injurious noise levels. The plugs or molds shall be designed in a
manner so as to not inhibit the wearer's ability to hear a siren or
horn from an emergency vehicle or a horn from another motor vehicle.

(e) A person using a prosthetic device that aids the hard of
hearing.

General impression is that yes, wearing any device that puts something
over or inserted into both ears is illegal in California (many other
states have similar statutes). Around here, at this time, it appears
to be poorly enforced. My guess is that if the City of Irvine went to
the trouble of putting up a reminder sign then it is their intention to
enforce.

- rick

In article <[email hidden]>,

DC1999 said:

Here's a copy of California Vehicle Code sect 27400, which appears to
forbid the use of earplugs or headsets of any kind while driving an
auto or bicycle. Are the iPod's "earbuds" the same as "earplugs?"

illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:24:24 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (sally)

Quoted message said:

illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

In your opinion.

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:24:24 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (sally)

Quoted message said:

illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

In your opinion.

I agree. It may be illegal but that doesn't mean it's dangerous, if done
responsibly. Toodling down the middle of a MUT oblivious to the
world----dangerous. Hammering on the street while constantly checking my
mirror---not so much.

Andrew Price said:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:24:24 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (sally)

Quoted message said:

illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

In your opinion.

Opinion based on personal experience.

Even at a moderate volume (one at which I can carry on a conversation
with a person beside me), my iPod significantly reduces what I can hear
from the surroundings. Given that many MP3 enthusiasts (let's not dump
solely on iPods) crank the volume to hearing-damaging levels, I expect
many of them cannot hear anything at all from their surroundings.

Bottom line is that it does impair ***one*** of your senses. This adds
a degree of risk proportional to the impairment and the level that you
would normally use your hearing. If you do not normally your hearing
while cycling/driving, it should not significantly raise your risk
(although I'd wonder ***why*** you are not using your hearing; mine has
proved useful over the years).

Many North American jurisdictions prohibit anything in the way of
headphones that would impair your hearing (oddly, I've never heard of a
direct prohibition on obnoxiously loud stereos, even though they could
impair hearing).

(sally) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

DC1999 said:

Here's a copy of California Vehicle Code sect 27400, which appears to
forbid the use of earplugs or headsets of any kind while driving an
auto or bicycle. Are the iPod's "earbuds" the same as "earplugs?"

illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

So, deaf riders...arrest them on the spot? ;-)

And, cyclists dangerous to cars? Oh really; how?

Quoted message said:

Andrew Price said:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:24:24 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (sally)

Quoted message said:

illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

In your opinion.

Opinion based on personal experience.

Even at a moderate volume (one at which I can carry on a conversation
with a person beside me), my iPod significantly reduces what I can hear
from the surroundings. Given that many MP3 enthusiasts (let's not dump
solely on iPods) crank the volume to hearing-damaging levels, I expect
many of them cannot hear anything at all from their surroundings.

So drivers with big woofers, and tunes blasting, A/C on, windows rolled up.
Arrest them on the spot?

Quoted message said:

Bottom line is that it does impair ***one*** of your senses. This adds
a degree of risk proportional to the impairment and the level that you
would normally use your hearing. If you do not normally your hearing
while cycling/driving, it should not significantly raise your risk
(although I'd wonder ***why*** you are not using your hearing; mine has
proved useful over the years).

Many North American jurisdictions prohibit anything in the way of
headphones that would impair your hearing (oddly, I've never heard of a
direct prohibition on obnoxiously loud stereos, even though they could
impair hearing).

I think they'd do better lowering the accident statistics if they enforced
the ban on drivers using cell phones than worrying about a few cyclists
listening to tunes at 12-15mph.

On any given outing I might see 1 or 2 riders with earphones, but almost
every other driver is on the cellphone.

"Set" <@setnet.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Andrew Price said:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:24:24 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (sally)
wrote:

>illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

In your opinion.

Opinion based on personal experience.

Even at a moderate volume (one at which I can carry on a conversation
with a person beside me), my iPod significantly reduces what I can hear
from the surroundings. Given that many MP3 enthusiasts (let's not dump
solely on iPods) crank the volume to hearing-damaging levels, I expect
many of them cannot hear anything at all from their surroundings.

So drivers with big woofers, and tunes blasting, A/C on, windows rolled
up.
Arrest them on the spot?

What about all the hearing impaired drivers? I live in Florida, among senior
citizens, and I can attest that a good percentage of them are hard of
hearing. Add to that they are driving luxury cars with the A/C and radio on,
WITH the windows up, and hearing becomes one of the senses they do not use
to drive.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bottom line is that it does impair ***one*** of your senses. This adds
a degree of risk proportional to the impairment and the level that you
would normally use your hearing. If you do not normally your hearing
while cycling/driving, it should not significantly raise your risk
(although I'd wonder ***why*** you are not using your hearing; mine has
proved useful over the years).

Many North American jurisdictions prohibit anything in the way of
headphones that would impair your hearing (oddly, I've never heard of a
direct prohibition on obnoxiously loud stereos, even though they could
impair hearing).

I think they'd do better lowering the accident statistics if they enforced
the ban on drivers using cell phones than worrying about a few cyclists
listening to tunes at 12-15mph.

On any given outing I might see 1 or 2 riders with earphones, but almost
every other driver is on the cellphone.

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT. I sometimes play "count the cell phones" when I'm
driving. The amount of cell phone usage is astounding. I don't understand
the appeal. Are people so busy that they cannot have time out of contact
with people? What is so important?

sally said:

illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

Dangerous or not, if it is illegal AND you get involved in an accident
with both ears plugged-in, a smart lawyer will claim that it's all your
fault and therefore you deserve nothing and may have pay for the dent
your head made in the poor driver's window.

Gooserider said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even at a moderate volume (one at which I can carry on a conversation
with a person beside me), my iPod significantly reduces what I can hear
from the surroundings. Given that many MP3 enthusiasts (let's not dump
solely on iPods) crank the volume to hearing-damaging levels, I expect
many of them cannot hear anything at all from their surroundings.

So drivers with big woofers, and tunes blasting, A/C on, windows rolled
up.
Arrest them on the spot?

What about all the hearing impaired drivers? I live in Florida, among senior
citizens, and I can attest that a good percentage of them are hard of
hearing. Add to that they are driving luxury cars with the A/C and radio on,
WITH the windows up, and hearing becomes one of the senses they do not use
to drive.

My friend rides with an MP3 player and though I don't particularly like it
and I worry about him, he seems to have no trouble whatsoever. He's just an
average cyclist. All he needs, he says, is his eyeglass mirror. I don't
wear one, having tried it occasionally on the bike path. I found the whole
deal of running the wires and getting the headphones on each time a bit
annoying.

But, the point is, there are relatively few cyclists out there each day and
these riders have little impact on drivers, neither causing them harm nor
but a few seconds delay, on a very occasional basis.

The anti-cycling crowd has to scramble for every little complaint they can
think of, including trying to create a media impression that there are
these supposedly ubiquitous evil cycling scofflaws, running down dozens of
pedestrians each hour and creating massive and intentional gridlock.

The funny lycra outfits, reminding drivers of how out of shape they are,
probably is the top complaint, but they can not figure out a way to make
that illegal, plus it's probably embarrassing to admit.

So, instead, they focus on things like running a stop sign on a deserted
back road, or targeting the occasional rider listening to tunes as some
kind of criminal.

In fact it's not the listening to tunes, since we've shown drivers are even
more routinely hearing-impaired in their closed in boxes. Most of the time
it's easy to see by the dangling cords that someone is wearing headphones

With the advent of eyeglass and miniature MP3 devices soon it won't be
obvious and we can all ignore this rule. ;-)

In fact I'm surprised that nobody's come along with a clear or
flesh-colored earbud, lol.

George Farnsworth said:

sally said:

illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

Dangerous or not, if it is illegal AND you get involved in an accident
with both ears plugged-in, a smart lawyer will claim that it's all your
fault and therefore you deserve nothing and may have pay for the dent
your head made in the poor driver's window.

Especially if you crazy glue them in. ;-D

Set said:

Quoted message said:

Andrew Price said:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:24:24 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (sally)
wrote:

>illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

In your opinion.

Opinion based on personal experience.

Even at a moderate volume (one at which I can carry on a conversation
with a person beside me), my iPod significantly reduces what I can hear
from the surroundings. Given that many MP3 enthusiasts (let's not dump
solely on iPods) crank the volume to hearing-damaging levels, I expect
many of them cannot hear anything at all from their surroundings.

So drivers with big woofers, and tunes blasting, A/C on, windows rolled up.
Arrest them on the spot?

Quoted message said:

Bottom line is that it does impair ***one*** of your senses. This adds
a degree of risk proportional to the impairment and the level that you
would normally use your hearing. If you do not normally your hearing
while cycling/driving, it should not significantly raise your risk
(although I'd wonder ***why*** you are not using your hearing; mine has
proved useful over the years).

Many North American jurisdictions prohibit anything in the way of
headphones that would impair your hearing (oddly, I've never heard of a
direct prohibition on obnoxiously loud stereos, even though they could
impair hearing).

I think they'd do better lowering the accident statistics if they enforced
the ban on drivers using cell phones than worrying about a few cyclists
listening to tunes at 12-15mph.

The earplug statute in question is from the California Vehicle Code.
In California there is no ban in cell phone use, ergo there can be no
enforcement. My good neighbor to the north, Joe Simitian, has on
occasion tried to introduce legislation to require hands-free
operation, only, but that has been killed by special interests. While I
would love to see restrictions on cell phone use, in most jurisdictions
it ain't going to happen ... folks are too in love with their talk
boxes.

That said, I pass too many clueless iPod/MP3 player riders on the roads
these days; they do not hear me approach, they do not hear me call out
that I am passing, on occasion they have veered into me. Count me as
one in favor of either enforcing the earplug/headphone ban or requiring
that compensatory devices to allow the users to have a sense of their
surroundings (mirrors, etc.) as an alternative.

- rick

DC1999 said:

Here's a copy of California Vehicle Code sect 27400, which appears to
forbid the use of earplugs or headsets of any kind while driving an
auto or bicycle. Are the iPod's "earbuds" the same as "earplugs?"
This code section is cited and displayed on a sign on one of Irvine's
bike trails.

yep. not only illegal, but just plain stupid.

Very interesting discussion.

Personally, I don't agree that riding on a bike trail with earbuds
playing from an MP3-iPod device is particularly dangerous. I've noted
that quite a few local cyclists use iPods or whatever brand they favor.

Now, drivers using cell phones ... that's another issue and the degree
of danger to others from a 3000+ pound vehicle going 35 mph has to be
vastly above any danger an iPod using cyclist might present. Yet, no
state legislature has chosen to ban cell phones use (or using radios,
eating burgers, listening to mother-in-law in the back seat) while
driving a motor vehicle, only earphones and earplugs.

What it's probably going to take here in CA is some legislator's kid
being killed by a cell-phone using miscreant. Or, an off the wall
appellate court opinion that the cell phone companies have to share
liability for negligent users of their product.

Just my opinion.

Dave

DC1999 said:

Here's a copy of California Vehicle Code sect 27400, which appears to
forbid the use of earplugs or headsets of any kind while driving an
auto or bicycle. Are the iPod's "earbuds" the same as "earplugs?"
This code section is cited and displayed on a sign on one of Irvine's
bike trails.

27400. A person operating a motor vehicle or bicycle may not wear a
headset covering, or earplugs in, both ears. This prohibition does
not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person operating authorized emergency vehicles, as defined
in Section 165.
(b) A person engaged in the operation of either special
construction equipment or equipment for use in the maintenance of any
highway.
(c) A person engaged in the operation of refuse collection
equipment who is wearing a safety headset or safety earplugs.
(d) A person wearing personal hearing protectors in the form of
earplugs or molds that are specifically designed to attenuate
injurious noise levels. The plugs or molds shall be designed in a
manner so as to not inhibit the wearer's ability to hear a siren or
horn from an emergency vehicle or a horn from another motor vehicle.

(e) A person using a prosthetic device that aids the hard of
hearing.

(copied from findlaw.com)

DC1999 said:

Very interesting discussion.

Personally, I don't agree that riding on a bike trail with earbuds
playing from an MP3-iPod device is particularly dangerous. I've noted
that quite a few local cyclists use iPods or whatever brand they favor.

Actually I think one needs to be even more aware on a bike trail. There
are many non-bike users ("bike trails" are sometimes just called
"trails"😉 and there are little children riding. And then, you have the
"Lance-a-bees" who think one can/should be able to do 25 mph on trails
and yell "On your left" a millisecond before passing.

DC1999 said:

Very interesting discussion.

Personally, I don't agree that riding on a bike trail with earbuds
playing from an MP3-iPod device is particularly dangerous. I've noted
that quite a few local cyclists use iPods or whatever brand they
favor.

Its incredibly dangerous. Every ability you have at your disposal to
pick up and process ambient dangers is a bonus. I have seen couriers
especially involved in loads of accidents because they did *hear* car
coming around the corner.

[email protected] said:

(sally) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

DC1999 said:

Here's a copy of California Vehicle Code sect 27400, which appears to
forbid the use of earplugs or headsets of any kind while driving an
auto or bicycle. Are the iPod's "earbuds" the same as "earplugs?"

illegal and dangerous, for both cyclists and car drivers

So, deaf riders...arrest them on the spot? ;-)

And, cyclists dangerous to cars? Oh really; how?

How do you think? Go on : try.