Come clean LeMond

SC said:

I raced against you as a junior and some as a senior 77 - 79.

Establishing your credibility, very nice. So what does you racing
against Lemond thirty years ago as a 12 year old prove?

Quoted message said:

Prove it that you never used something to help your performance. "Iron
injections", a personal trainer named "Otto"...

BUSTED! It is well known that if you put things in quotes, or have a
trainer named OTTO you are GUILTY!

Quoted message said:

LeMond had his blood tested near the end of the Tour de Trump to see if that
might yield some clue to his disappointing performances. It revealed
nothing. He returned to Europe to prepare for the Tour of Italy, one of
cycling's most prestigious events after the Tour de France. There, too, he
faltered. In the first mountain stage LeMond lost eight minutes to the
leaders. His masseur, Otto Jacome, who has been a friend of the LeMond
family since Greg was 15, took one look at him afterward and said, "You are
white. You need iron."

Again LeMond had his blood tested. This time he was diagnosed as anemic, and
his doctor immediately gave him an injection of iron.

Ever suffer from an iron deficiency? Taking iron helps very quickly.

You have said nothing with your post. Congratulations.

"SC" <dellasanta@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Time to chill, the more you talk the more people will wonder.

I raced against you as a junior and some as a senior 77 - 79.

Prove it that you never used something to help your performance. "Iron
injections", a personal trainer named "Otto"...

Of course you cannot prove it SO shut up and be happy with what you
achieved. You are ruining your legacy.

Explain the Iron injections? Were they EPO or a similiar substance?

Quoted from;

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cycling/1998/tourdefrance/tourdefrancearchi
ve/tour2.html,

Quoted message said:

not some newsgroup posting:

LeMond had his blood tested near the end of the Tour de Trump to see if

that

Quoted message said:

might yield some clue to his disappointing performances. It revealed
nothing. He returned to Europe to prepare for the Tour of Italy, one of
cycling's most prestigious events after the Tour de France. There, too, he
faltered. In the first mountain stage LeMond lost eight minutes to the
leaders. His masseur, Otto Jacome, who has been a friend of the LeMond
family since Greg was 15, took one look at him afterward and said, "You

are

Quoted message said:

white. You need iron."

Again LeMond had his blood tested. This time he was diagnosed as anemic,

and

Quoted message said:

his doctor immediately gave him an injection of iron.

Also, from

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/cycling/longterm/1998/tour/artic
les/89winner.htm:

Quoted message said:

Otto Jacome, LeMond's coach, said that while LeMond's recovery has been
steady, he was having trouble in last month's Tour of Italy. "He said he
couldn't get enough oxygen in his body, or bring his rpm's [heartbeat

rate]

Quoted message said:

up," Jacome said. So the team doctor gave LeMond an injection of iron, and
though he finished 39th in Italy, he came in second in the last day's time
trial, besting Fignon by a minute though the Frenchman won the race.

There is no proof Lemon doped. He is clean. This is how I see it.
Claiming that that injection was not iron is extremely speculative.

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 17:20:45 GMT, "coldbeer!, get your coldbeer!" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"SC" <dellasanta@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Time to chill, the more you talk the more people will wonder.

I raced against you as a junior and some as a senior 77 - 79.

Prove it that you never used something to help your performance. "Iron
injections", a personal trainer named "Otto"...

Of course you cannot prove it SO shut up and be happy with what you
achieved. You are ruining your legacy.

Explain the Iron injections? Were they EPO or a similiar substance?

Quoted from;

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cycling/1998/tourdefrance/tourdefrancearchi
ve/tour2.html,

Quoted message said:

not some newsgroup posting:

LeMond had his blood tested near the end of the Tour de Trump to see if

that

Quoted message said:

might yield some clue to his disappointing performances. It revealed
nothing. He returned to Europe to prepare for the Tour of Italy, one of
cycling's most prestigious events after the Tour de France. There, too, he
faltered. In the first mountain stage LeMond lost eight minutes to the
leaders. His masseur, Otto Jacome, who has been a friend of the LeMond
family since Greg was 15, took one look at him afterward and said, "You

are

Quoted message said:

white. You need iron."

Again LeMond had his blood tested. This time he was diagnosed as anemic,

and

Quoted message said:

his doctor immediately gave him an injection of iron.

Also, from

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/cycling/longterm/1998/tour/artic
les/89winner.htm:

Quoted message said:

Otto Jacome, LeMond's coach, said that while LeMond's recovery has been
steady, he was having trouble in last month's Tour of Italy. "He said he
couldn't get enough oxygen in his body, or bring his rpm's [heartbeat

rate]

Quoted message said:

up," Jacome said. So the team doctor gave LeMond an injection of iron, and
though he finished 39th in Italy, he came in second in the last day's time
trial, besting Fignon by a minute though the Frenchman won the race.

There is no proof Lemon doped. He is clean. This is how I see it.
Claiming that that injection was not iron is extremely speculative.

The point is that all of this speculation based on circumstance reflects as
badly on him as anyone else. The man was at ground zero in the blood packing
heyday.

Ron

Whatever it was and if it had an effect, it was not iron as that takes 2
plus weeks to gen new rbc.

Perhaps it was vita b

"coldbeer!, get your coldbeer!" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"SC" <dellasanta@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Time to chill, the more you talk the more people will wonder.

I raced against you as a junior and some as a senior 77 - 79.

Prove it that you never used something to help your performance. "Iron
injections", a personal trainer named "Otto"...

Of course you cannot prove it SO shut up and be happy with what you
achieved. You are ruining your legacy.

Explain the Iron injections? Were they EPO or a similiar substance?

Quoted from;

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cycling/1998/tourdefrance/tourdefrancearchi
ve/tour2.html,

Quoted message said:

not some newsgroup posting:

LeMond had his blood tested near the end of the Tour de Trump to see if

that

Quoted message said:

might yield some clue to his disappointing performances. It revealed
nothing. He returned to Europe to prepare for the Tour of Italy, one of
cycling's most prestigious events after the Tour de France. There, too,
he
faltered. In the first mountain stage LeMond lost eight minutes to the
leaders. His masseur, Otto Jacome, who has been a friend of the LeMond
family since Greg was 15, took one look at him afterward and said, "You

are

Quoted message said:

white. You need iron."

Again LeMond had his blood tested. This time he was diagnosed as anemic,

and

Quoted message said:

his doctor immediately gave him an injection of iron.

Also, from

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/cycling/longterm/1998/tour/artic
les/89winner.htm:

Quoted message said:

Otto Jacome, LeMond's coach, said that while LeMond's recovery has been
steady, he was having trouble in last month's Tour of Italy. "He said he
couldn't get enough oxygen in his body, or bring his rpm's [heartbeat

rate]

Quoted message said:

up," Jacome said. So the team doctor gave LeMond an injection of iron,
and
though he finished 39th in Italy, he came in second in the last day's
time
trial, besting Fignon by a minute though the Frenchman won the race.

There is no proof Lemon doped. He is clean. This is how I see it.
Claiming that that injection was not iron is extremely speculative.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever suffer from an iron deficiency? Taking iron helps very quickly.

Can you tell us what causes iron deficiency? After all, it is extremely rare
in the USA except under some unusual conditions.

Tom Kunich said:

Can you tell us what causes iron deficiency? After all, it is extremely rare
in the USA except under some unusual conditions.

I'm no doctor, but my wife is pregnant and is a totally different
person after the doctor suggested she take iron.

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

Can you tell us what causes iron deficiency? After all, it is extremely rare
in the USA except under some unusual conditions.

I'm no doctor, but my wife is pregnant and is a totally different
person after the doctor suggested she take iron.

Gee, I hope Floyd doesn't use the "I might be pregnant" defense!

R

Tom Kunich said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever suffer from an iron deficiency? Taking iron helps very quickly.

Can you tell us what causes iron deficiency? After all, it is extremely rare
in the USA except under some unusual conditions.

Well, iron deficiency is hardly rare. But specifically, there was some
thought some years back (don't know if this is still supported) that
some people involved in high-volume aerobic activity sometimes became
anemic. I remember the marathoner Alberto Salazar was found to be
anemic (or claimed to be). I actually heard what seemed a patently
absurd explanation for this--that the repeated footfalls of running
eventually caused hemolytic anemia by actually causing rupture of the
erythrocytes.
More credible was an explanation of a patient who said when he was
young and running heavy miles he began to pee blood. That I think made
sense.

Steve

"Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever suffer from an iron deficiency? Taking iron helps very quickly.

Can you tell us what causes iron deficiency? After all, it is extremely
rare in the USA except under some unusual conditions.

Well, iron deficiency is hardly rare. But specifically, there was some
thought some years back (don't know if this is still supported) that some
people involved in high-volume aerobic activity sometimes became anemic.
I remember the marathoner Alberto Salazar was found to be anemic (or
claimed to be). I actually heard what seemed a patently absurd
explanation for this--that the repeated footfalls of running eventually
caused hemolytic anemia by actually causing rupture of the erythrocytes.
More credible was an explanation of a patient who said when he was young
and running heavy miles he began to pee blood. That I think made sense.

I frequently had very low iron levels and was told the same footstrike
explanation. Whether related or a seperate issue, my bilirubin was/is always
high.

Steven Bornfeld said:

Well, iron deficiency is hardly rare. But specifically, there was
some thought some years back (don't know if this is still supported)
that some people involved in high-volume aerobic activity sometimes
became anemic. I remember the marathoner Alberto Salazar was found to
be anemic (or claimed to be). I actually heard what seemed a patently
absurd explanation for this--that the repeated footfalls of running
eventually caused hemolytic anemia by actually causing rupture of the
erythrocytes.

A couple of years after I became vegetarian I found that I couldn't keep
up with my teammates during the harder training sessions. An occassional
iron supplement ans adding lentils to my diet fixed that problem in
about a month.

"RicodJour" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

Can you tell us what causes iron deficiency? After all, it is

extremely rare

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the USA except under some unusual conditions.

I'm no doctor, but my wife is pregnant and is a totally different
person after the doctor suggested she take iron.

Gee, I hope Floyd doesn't use the "I might be pregnant" defense!

It sounds better than the "it's my twin's blood since my mother's uterus"
excuse. Listen to that! These defense attorneys are turning their clients
into jokes. They probably have a pool going to see who can pass off the
most outrageous defense.

Quoted message said:

Whatever it was and if it had an effect, it was not iron as that takes 2
plus weeks to gen new rbc.

Perhaps it was vita b

My point is, we do not know and never will. I get tired of people bringing
this up. There is no point to it.

Carl Sundquist said:

I frequently had very low iron levels and was told the same footstrike
explanation. Whether related or a seperate issue, my bilirubin was/is always
high.

I'm not familiar enough with the metabolic processes involved in
hemolysis, but it seems at least possible that to the extent the liver
is involved your liver enzymes could change.
Back when I was doing respectable miles (maybe 250+ miles/wk) I also
tested anemic for a while. I was not running, nor did I have blood in
my urine.

Steve

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

Can you tell us what causes iron deficiency? After all, it is extremely
rare
in the USA except under some unusual conditions.

I'm no doctor, but my wife is pregnant and is a totally different
person after the doctor suggested she take iron.

Did she become Greg LeMond?

"Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever suffer from an iron deficiency? Taking iron helps very quickly.

Can you tell us what causes iron deficiency? After all, it is extremely
rare in the USA except under some unusual conditions.

Well, iron deficiency is hardly rare. But specifically, there was some
thought some years back (don't know if this is still supported) that some
people involved in high-volume aerobic activity sometimes became anemic.
I remember the marathoner Alberto Salazar was found to be anemic (or
claimed to be). I actually heard what seemed a patently absurd
explanation for this--that the repeated footfalls of running eventually
caused hemolytic anemia by actually causing rupture of the erythrocytes.

Actually I wanted to see if ANYONE would bother to look it up. Iron
deficiency is pretty rare among people who eat a balanced diet and in the
USA these days that's most people.

BUT - iron is less available in people with less acidic stomach acid. You
know - like those people who are eating all the time and exercising for very
long periods of time which impares secretion of stomach acid?

Tom Kunich said:

"Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>Ever suffer from an iron deficiency? Taking iron helps very quickly.

Can you tell us what causes iron deficiency? After all, it is extremely
rare in the USA except under some unusual conditions.

Well, iron deficiency is hardly rare. But specifically, there was some
thought some years back (don't know if this is still supported) that some
people involved in high-volume aerobic activity sometimes became anemic.
I remember the marathoner Alberto Salazar was found to be anemic (or
claimed to be). I actually heard what seemed a patently absurd
explanation for this--that the repeated footfalls of running eventually
caused hemolytic anemia by actually causing rupture of the erythrocytes.

Actually I wanted to see if ANYONE would bother to look it up. Iron
deficiency is pretty rare among people who eat a balanced diet and in the
USA these days that's most people.

BUT - iron is less available in people with less acidic stomach acid. You
know - like those people who are eating all the time and exercising for very
long periods of time which impares secretion of stomach acid?

Interesting question, and your hypothesis is less ludicrous than
poundin' those poor widdle red blood cells to death.
Yes, the average male has low dietary requirements (obviously women of
childbearing age have significantly greater needs),
According to the NIH,
"Approximately 20% of women, 50% of pregnant women, and 3% of men are
iron deficient."
I have no idea what the incidence of anemia in cyclists is. But here's
a nice summary page of anemia in athletes. It mentions the "footstrike
anemia", but notes that iron deficiency anemia is more common, and comes
both from poor dietary intake and hemorrhage, mostly from the
gastrointestinal system:

http://www.cptips.com/blood.htm

Steve

Quoted message said:

"Approximately 20% of women, 50% of pregnant women, and 3% of men are
iron deficient."
I have no idea what the incidence of anemia in cyclists is. But
here's
a nice summary page of anemia in athletes. It mentions the
"footstrike anemia", but notes that iron deficiency anemia is more
common, and comes both from poor dietary intake and hemorrhage, mostly
from the gastrointestinal system:

So how come I have personally met a lot of women that have
anemia? I tend to to think of it is much higher than 20%.

I've run across too many women that don't eat and exercise
constantly. They have weird mental states from it, too.

I think the problem is more prevalent than suggested as people
were asked about anemia when I went to donate blood.

---
William O'Hara
www.N1ey.com - Amateur Radio and Railfan Blog
www.yahoogroups.com/group/illinoiscentral - premier discussion list re:
ICRR

William O'Hara said:

Quoted message said:

"Approximately 20% of women, 50% of pregnant women, and 3% of men are
iron deficient."
I have no idea what the incidence of anemia in cyclists is. But
here's
a nice summary page of anemia in athletes. It mentions the
"footstrike anemia", but notes that iron deficiency anemia is more
common, and comes both from poor dietary intake and hemorrhage, mostly
from the gastrointestinal system:

So how come I have personally met a lot of women that have
anemia? I tend to to think of it is much higher than 20%.

They may have missed your neighborhood. But I think 20% is quite high
enough.

Quoted message said:

I've run across too many women that don't eat and exercise
constantly. They have weird mental states from it, too.

No comment.

Quoted message said:

I think the problem is more prevalent than suggested as people
were asked about anemia when I went to donate blood.

We could argue about the precise numbers, but we can agree it's pretty
common.

Steve

Quoted message said:

---
William O'Hara
www.N1ey.com - Amateur Radio and Railfan Blog
www.yahoogroups.com/group/illinoiscentral - premier discussion list re:
ICRR

"William O'Hara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Approximately 20% of women, 50% of pregnant women, and 3% of men are
iron deficient."
I have no idea what the incidence of anemia in cyclists is. But
here's
a nice summary page of anemia in athletes. It mentions the
"footstrike anemia", but notes that iron deficiency anemia is more
common, and comes both from poor dietary intake and hemorrhage, mostly
from the gastrointestinal system:

So how come I have personally met a lot of women that have
anemia? I tend to to think of it is much higher than 20%.

Here's a clue - women bleed a lot. Most of the body's iron is tied up in
hemoglobin. Normal intake of iron isn't high enough to replace in a large
number of women.

Men are another matter - the blood is normally recycled in the spleen so
there is very little iron loss.

However, as I mentioned, if you are eating constantly it dilutes your
stomach acid and the ph of your stomach rises. This hampers the absorbtion
of iron and makes it possible for men to become anemic. Endurance athletes
have two things going on - firstly, they're eating all the time though
usually all the wrong thing for iron replacement and secondly they're
injuring themselves and bleeding externally or internally and losing iron at
a higher rate than normal people.

Nevertheless it is more than possible to take excess iron and cause onset of
hemochromatosis which can be fatal. Especially when you have people like
Greg LeMond telling everyone that he was riding like a sissy until he got an
iron shot. After that everyone and their brother were getting iron shots or
eating tons of iron tablets and eating iron rich foods.