Road Cycling · Public discussion

Independent lab?

Jake · 2006-08-05T14:37:33+00:00

Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with such high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an independent lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is this too much to ask of WADA?

Started by Jake · 5 August 2006 · Last activity 8 August 2006 · 38 posts · 599 views

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01 / Original postIndependent lab?Jake · 5 Aug 2006 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 2 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #38Email address hidden · 8 Aug 2006

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Original section: Road Cycling
Published: 5 August 2006
Last activity: 8 August 2006
Original author: Jake
Posts: 38
Discussion status: Public discussion
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Original post
Jake
Archived post

5 August 2006, 14:37 UTC #1

Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with such
high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an independent
lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is this
too much to ask of WADA?

Report
Archived post

5 August 2006, 14:42 UTC #2

"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with such
high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an independent
lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is this
too much to ask of WADA?
The answer is no !
Next question

Report
MMan
Archived post

5 August 2006, 14:45 UTC #3

Jake said:
Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with such
high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an independent
lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is this
too much to ask of WADA?
Excellent question.
I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
involved.

Report
Archived post

5 August 2006, 15:04 UTC #4

"MMan" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Jake said:
Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
such
high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
independent
lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is
this
too much to ask of WADA?
Excellent question.
I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
involved.
LOL !
What about a Frog-Bashing, my friend ?
Lets go !

Report
Jake
Archived post

5 August 2006, 15:20 UTC #5

"MMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Jake said:
Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
such
high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
independent
lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is
this
too much to ask of WADA?
Excellent question.
I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
involved.
Yes, the testing should be blind with several dummy samples thrown into the
mix.
In other sports, when a referee's call is disputed, the complainant asks a
*different* referee to confirm or reject the initial judgement.

Report
MMan
Archived post

5 August 2006, 15:23 UTC #6

Montesquiou said:
Quoted message said:
I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
involved.
LOL !
What about a Frog-Bashing, my friend ?
Lets go !
???????
That was weird ...

Report
Jake
Archived post

5 August 2006, 15:23 UTC #7

<Montesquiou> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
such high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
independent lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or
innocent? Is this too much to ask of WADA?
The answer is no !
Next question
I see your point clearly. WADA wouldn't smell too good if their preferred
lab were proven to be in error.

Report
Archived post

5 August 2006, 15:25 UTC #8

"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"MMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Jake said:
Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
such
high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
independent
lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is
this
too much to ask of WADA?
Excellent question.
I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
involved.
Yes, the testing should be blind with several dummy samples thrown into
the mix.
In other sports, when a referee's call is disputed, the complainant asks a
*different* referee to confirm or reject the initial judgement.
It is not referee with are talking about, but LAB !
Do you think a LAB is a referee ?
Oh my god ! You need to learn more on Lab (and Referee also)

Report
Jake
Archived post

5 August 2006, 16:44 UTC #9

<Montesquiou> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"MMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Jake wrote:
> Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
> such
> high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
> independent
> lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is
> this
> too much to ask of WADA?
Excellent question.
I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
involved.
Yes, the testing should be blind with several dummy samples thrown into
the mix.
In other sports, when a referee's call is disputed, the complainant asks
a *different* referee to confirm or reject the initial judgement.
It is not referee with are talking about, but LAB !
Do you think a LAB is a referee ?
Oh my god ! You need to learn more on Lab (and Referee also)
It is a metaphor, you moron. Learn english, how about it.

Report
Archived post

5 August 2006, 16:52 UTC #10

"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
<Montesquiou> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"MMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Jake wrote:
>> Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
>> such
>> high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
>> independent
>> lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is
>> this
>> too much to ask of WADA?
>
> Excellent question.
>
> I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
> Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
> involved.
Yes, the testing should be blind with several dummy samples thrown into
the mix.
In other sports, when a referee's call is disputed, the complainant asks
a *different* referee to confirm or reject the initial judgement.
It is not referee with are talking about, but LAB !
Do you think a LAB is a referee ?
Oh my god ! You need to learn more on Lab (and Referee also)
It is a metaphor, you moron. Learn english, how about it.
Bonjour dear friend.
Metaphor ( from the french word metaphore)
Referee (from the french word référer)
Laboratory (from the french word laboratoire)
The english word I had to learn was : "moron".
It is your name, it is not ?

Report
RicodJour
Archived post

5 August 2006, 17:13 UTC #11

Montesquiou said:
"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with such
high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an independent
lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is this
too much to ask of WADA?
The answer is no !
Next question
No, let's stick with this question as it's a reasonable one.
In international competition, such as the World Cup, the referees are
not from either of the countries that are playing the match. This is
an obvious and simple solution to prevent any nationalistic bias from
creeping in or being alleged. Why should international cycling be any
different? Why should one lab be in total control? As far as I know
both the UCI and WADA purport to be international entities. Prove it.
R

Report
RicodJour
Archived post

5 August 2006, 17:25 UTC #12

Montesquiou said:

Metaphor ( from the french word metaphore)
[Middle English methaphor, from Old French metaphore, from Latin
metaphora, from Greek, transference, metaphor, from metapherein, to
transfer : meta-, meta- + pherein, to carry
Quoted message said:
Referee (from the french word référer)
[Middle English referren, from Old French referer, from Latin referre :
re-, re- + ferre, to carry
Quoted message said:
Laboratory (from the french word laboratoire)
[Medieval Latin labrtrium, from Latin labrre, to labor, from labor,
labor.]
Curious, all three words trace back to Latin. You're not going to
start saying the French invented the internet or Disneyland, are you?
R

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Sandy
Archived post

5 August 2006, 17:33 UTC #13

RicodJour a écrit :
Quoted message said:
Montesquiou said:
"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with such
high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an independent
lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is this
too much to ask of WADA?

The answer is no !
Next question
No, let's stick with this question as it's a reasonable one.
In international competition, such as the World Cup, the referees are
not from either of the countries that are playing the match. This is
an obvious and simple solution to prevent any nationalistic bias from
creeping in or being alleged. Why should international cycling be any
different? Why should one lab be in total control? As far as I know
both the UCI and WADA purport to be international entities. Prove it.
R

This is only vaguely international cycling. The TdF crosses some
boundaries almost each year, but it's in France, under the rules of the
FFC, and that's how it is.

Report
RicodJour
Archived post

5 August 2006, 17:45 UTC #14

Jake said:
"MMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Jake said:
Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
such
high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
independent
lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is
this
too much to ask of WADA?
Excellent question.
I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
involved.
Yes, the testing should be blind with several dummy samples thrown into the
mix.
In other sports, when a referee's call is disputed, the complainant asks a
*different* referee to confirm or reject the initial judgement.
Which sport are you referring to? Isn't one all-knowing central
official with assistants/subordinates the standard?
R

Report
Archived post

5 August 2006, 17:56 UTC #15

"RicodJour" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Montesquiou said:

Metaphor ( from the french word metaphore)
[Middle English methaphor, from Old French metaphore, from Latin
metaphora, from Greek, transference, metaphor, from metapherein, to
transfer : meta-, meta- + pherein, to carry
Quoted message said:
Referee (from the french word référer)
[Middle English referren, from Old French referer, from Latin referre :
re-, re- + ferre, to carry
Quoted message said:
Laboratory (from the french word laboratoire)
[Medieval Latin labrtrium, from Latin labrre, to labor, from labor,
labor.]
Curious, all three words trace back to Latin. You're not going to
start saying the French invented the internet or Disneyland, are you?
R
***
Dear friend
Suppose a French troll asking an Italian to learn french because he used
three french words : Métaphore, Référer and Laboratoire.
The Italian remembering to the french troll that the three words came from
latin would be funny. It is not ?
60 % of the word we use in french and english linguage are the same.
Some came from latin to french and english at the same time, some from latin
to french then to english linguage, some from english to french linguage.
It is why I found it funny he choose three english words coming from french
linguage ; )

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bob sullivan
Archived post

5 August 2006, 18:12 UTC #16

Jake said:
<Montesquiou> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"MMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>Jake wrote:
>
>>Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
>>such
>>high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
>>independent
>>lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is
>>this
>>too much to ask of WADA?
>
>Excellent question.
>
>I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
>Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
>involved.
Yes, the testing should be blind with several dummy samples thrown into
the mix.
In other sports, when a referee's call is disputed, the complainant asks
a *different* referee to confirm or reject the initial judgement.

It is not referee with are talking about, but LAB !
Do you think a LAB is a referee ?
Oh my god ! You need to learn more on Lab (and Referee also)
It is a metaphor, you moron. Learn english, how about it.
Personally, I don't understand why they're sending these samples to a
LAB, anyway. Are labrador retrievers' noses so good that they can detect
the presence of dope in urine? Animal cruelty! 😉
~bob

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Jake
Archived post

5 August 2006, 18:52 UTC #17

"RicodJour" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Jake said:
"MMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Jake wrote:
> Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
> such
> high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
> independent
> lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is
> this
> too much to ask of WADA?
Excellent question.
I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
involved.
Yes, the testing should be blind with several dummy samples thrown into
the
mix.
In other sports, when a referee's call is disputed, the complainant asks
a
*different* referee to confirm or reject the initial judgement.
Which sport are you referring to? Isn't one all-knowing central
official with assistants/subordinates the standard?
R
Examples: In major league baseball, the plate umpire's swing or check-swing
call can be appealed to an official in the field. In the NFL, coaches can
challenge an official's call via the instant replay system.

Report
Archived post

5 August 2006, 19:02 UTC #18

"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"RicodJour" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Jake said:
"MMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Jake wrote:
>> Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
>> such
>> high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
>> independent
>> lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is
>> this
>> too much to ask of WADA?
>
> Excellent question.
>
> I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
> Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
> involved.
Yes, the testing should be blind with several dummy samples thrown into
the
mix.
In other sports, when a referee's call is disputed, the complainant asks
a
*different* referee to confirm or reject the initial judgement.
Which sport are you referring to? Isn't one all-knowing central
official with assistants/subordinates the standard?
R
Examples: In major league baseball, the plate umpire's swing or
check-swing call can be appealed to an official in the field. In the NFL,
coaches can challenge an official's call via the instant replay system.
Your Lab can do it with Testosterone ?
Wowwww !

Report
oddball
Archived post

5 August 2006, 19:13 UTC #19

i'm pretty sure if they did send the B sample anywhere for additional
testing they could potentially open up a whole 'nother can of worms.
everything from secure chain of custody, temperature of sample when it
left the lab, temperature of sample when it was received by second lab,
etc. i've transported urine samples in the past and have taken
numerous soil and groundwater samples. from sample collection to
delivery you've got to make sure you have your [censored] together or else
you open yourself up to all kinds of problems if someone down the road
contests the results.

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RonSonic
Archived post

5 August 2006, 20:12 UTC #20

Montesquiou said:

"Jake" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"MMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Jake wrote:
> Why does the B-sample get tested by the same lab as the A-sample with
> such
> high stakes involved? Shouldn't the B-sample be tested by an
> independent
> lab with no interest in proving Landis either guilty or innocent? Is
> this
> too much to ask of WADA?
Excellent question.
I'm also wondering if the tester knew that what he/she was testing was
Landis's B-sample, or if there's any sort of "blind" procedure
involved.
Yes, the testing should be blind with several dummy samples thrown into
the mix.
In other sports, when a referee's call is disputed, the complainant asks a
*different* referee to confirm or reject the initial judgement.
It is not referee with are talking about, but LAB !
Do you think a LAB is a referee ?
If the lab is ruling on whether a rule was broken during an athletic event then,
yes, it's a referree
Quoted message said:
Oh my god ! You need to learn more on Lab (and Referee also)
You stopped making sense again. You've been doing that today.
Ron

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