Counterfeit Bianchi?

Dumpster Bike said:

something someone had said on here a while back came to mind when i bought a frame at a big swap
this weekend.

T-town?

Quoted message said:

here's what i got: its a candy apple red road frame, 63ish CM, chromed stays and fork blades (half
way up), rear der. hangar sawed off, other than that a few scratches and paint flaking off but in
good condition. fork needs to be realligned slightly. it had an SR double crank on it, as well as
a forged SR stem, MKS campy knockoff pedals, some sakae bars and some junky no brand headset. (all
for 20 bucks, not bad)

Your money's worth, it seems.

Quoted message said:

the dude selling it told me it was nice butted columbus tubing. i doubted it judging by the weight
and the way the gold stick on decals were applied (sloppily, peeling, airbubles underneath).

Columbus tubing from when? If early '70s, it still could be fairly heavy and really be Columbus.

it had nothing on the head

Quoted message said:

tube, bianchi on the downtube, some stripes there as well as the seat tube, and little Piaggio
stickers. the steerer tube had Ishiwata stamped on it, which im guessing then the whole bike is
made of (the cheaper over-seas, straight gauge tubing).

Are you sure the fork was original with the bike?

Pictures (a link to them, only) would help.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or _`\(,_ | that we are to
stand by the president right or wrong, is not (_)/ (_) | only unpatriotic and servile, but is
morally treasonable to the American public. --Theodore Roosevelt

Quoted message said:

Columbus tubing from when? If early '70s, it still could be fairly heavy and really be Columbus.

This causes me to ask: What's so great about Columbus tubing? Is it of Italian origin? Is it
a certain steel alloy? Is it really so different from other steels that it must be given its
own category?

I'm knowledgeable about new bike stuff, but not of the old stuff.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Dumpster Bike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

something someone had said on here a while back came to

mind when i

Quoted message said:

bought a frame at a big swap this weekend. the guy was

describing a

Quoted message said:

bike he had, and said that "who knows if it was really a

bianchi or

Quoted message said:

not".

here's what i got: its a candy apple red road frame, 63ish CM, chromed stays

and fork

Quoted message said:

blades (half way up), rear der. hangar sawed off, other

than that a

Quoted message said:

few scratches and paint flaking off but in good condition.

fork needs

Quoted message said:

to be realligned slightly. it had an SR double crank on

it, as well as

Quoted message said:

a forged SR stem, MKS campy knockoff pedals, some sakae

bars and some

Quoted message said:

junky no brand headset. (all for 20 bucks, not bad)

the dude selling it told me it was nice butted columbus

tubing. i

Quoted message said:

doubted it judging by the weight and the way the gold

stick on decals

Quoted message said:

were applied (sloppily, peeling, airbubles underneath). it

had nothing

Quoted message said:

on the head tube, bianchi on the downtube, some stripes

there as well

Quoted message said:

as the seat tube, and little Piaggio stickers. the steerer

tube had

Quoted message said:

Ishiwata stamped on it, which im guessing then the whole

bike is made

Quoted message said:

of (the cheaper over-seas, straight gauge tubing).
also, the fork ends and dropouts are stamped with

SunTour GT. its

Quoted message said:

lugged and is in decent condition. im using it as my work

bike, a

Quoted message said:

fixed with a front brake. i dont really need some real

nice ride so

Quoted message said:

this fits the bill, but i was wondering if it was even a

bianchi at

Quoted message said:

all.

what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.

What's wrong with Ishiwata steel? It's been used for many nice steel bikes - e.g. see the 3Rensho
Katanas at yellowjersey.orgshowroom.htmlOpen ↗ - how heavy is the frameset?

I also saw a refrerence to a Bianchi made with Ishiwata steel - do a web search....

I doubt that your bianchi was counterfit. It was probably one of the lower end models made in Asia.
They were not necessarily bad bikes, but the labor was cheaper. Ishiwata has all grades of tubing
too, from fancier, seamless, butted lighter tubes to heavier seamed straight gauge. Hard to tell
what yours is unless it is spelled out, and it clearly won't matter for the price or what you want
it for. If it says bianchi, most likely it is a Bianchi.

Andres

Quoted message said:

something someone had said on here a while back came to mind when i bought a frame at a big swap
this weekend. the guy was describing a bike he had, and said that "who knows if it was really a
bianchi or not".

here's what i got: its a candy apple red road frame, 63ish CM, chromed stays and fork blades (half
way up), rear der. hangar sawed off, other than that a few scratches and paint flaking off but in
good condition. fork needs to be realligned slightly. it had an SR double crank on it, as well as a
forged SR stem, MKS campy knockoff pedals, some sakae bars and some junky no brand headset. (all
for 20 bucks, not bad)

the dude selling it told me it was nice butted columbus tubing. i doubted it judging by the weight
and the way the gold stick on decals were applied (sloppily, peeling, airbubles underneath). it had
nothing on the head tube, bianchi on the downtube, some stripes there as well as the seat tube, and
little Piaggio stickers. the steerer tube had Ishiwata stamped on it, which im guessing then the
whole bike is made of (the cheaper over-seas, straight gauge tubing). also, the fork ends and
dropouts are stamped with SunTour GT. its lugged and is in decent condition. im using it as my work
bike, a fixed with a front brake. i dont really need some real nice ride so this fits the bill, but
i was wondering if it was even a bianchi at all.

what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.

visit my art website at: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

Squid-in-Training said:

Quoted message said:

Columbus tubing from when? If early '70s, it still could be fairly heavy and really be Columbus.

This causes me to ask: What's so great about Columbus tubing? Is it of Italian origin? Is it a
certain steel alloy? Is it really so different from other steels that it must be given its own
category?

They make a whole line of tubes, similar to Reynolds. I guess they are Italian, but don't know. Back
in the '70s they were comparable to Reynolds in weight and quality. Cinelli bikes were made with
Columbus tubing.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | This is my religion. There is no need for temples; no need for _`\(,_ | complicated
philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our (_)/ (_) | temple. The philosophy is kindness.
--The Dalai Lama

"AndresMuro" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This causes me to ask: What's so great about Columbus tubing?

That it was named after a man who is responsible for the enslavment and massacre of a bunch
of people.

Mr. Angelo Luigi Colombo ? Production of steel tubes started in 1919. Production of tubes (butted)
for bicycles started in 1927. The Columbus trademark was born in 1930

Michael

Quoted message said:

visit my art website at: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

Phil said:

Quoted message said:

Columbus tubing from when? If early '70s, it still could be fairly heavy and really be Columbus.

This causes me to ask: What's so great about Columbus tubing? Is it of Italian origin?

Yes, and the second question answers the first.

Quoted message said:

Is it a certain steel alloy? Is it really so different from other steels that it must be given its
own category?

Like any manufacturer, Columbus has some propietary features which include alloy specification, but
the brand name "Columbus" is more of a marketing distinction than an engineering one. As for the
actual alloy, there are others here who can write about that authoritatively.

Quoted message said:

I'm knowledgeable about new bike stuff, but not of the old stuff.

Heh. It's all old stuff to me now. There is nothing new in bicycles.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

Dumpster Bike said:

something someone had said on here a while back came to mind when i bought a frame at a big swap
this weekend. the guy was describing a bike he had, and said that "who knows if it was really a
bianchi or not".

here's what i got: its a candy apple red road frame, 63ish CM, chromed stays and fork blades (half
way up), rear der. hangar sawed off, other than that a few scratches and paint flaking off but in
good condition. fork needs to be realligned slightly. it had an SR double crank on it, as well as
a forged SR stem, MKS campy knockoff pedals, some sakae bars and some junky no brand headset. (all
for 20 bucks, not bad)

the dude selling it told me it was nice butted columbus tubing. i doubted it judging by the weight
and the way the gold stick on decals were applied (sloppily, peeling, airbubles underneath). it
had nothing on the head tube, bianchi on the downtube, some stripes there as well as the seat
tube, and little Piaggio stickers. the steerer tube had Ishiwata stamped on it, which im guessing
then the whole bike is made of (the cheaper over-seas, straight gauge tubing). also, the fork ends
and dropouts are stamped with SunTour GT. its lugged and is in decent condition. im using it as my
work bike, a fixed with a front brake. i dont really need some real nice ride so this fits the
bill, but i was wondering if it was even a bianchi at all.

what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.

Sounds a lot like a Bianchi from about 1982. Probably the "Limited" model if it has a solid crown.
The headset's by Tange. Michael Schwering (former track champion, now deceased) designed very good
bikes for them at the time. Built from double butted premium Ishiwata tube (019/022; Columbus SL/SP
equivalent) in Osaka, they were good-handling, light and priced well. The "Special" model, below
"Limited", was three tubes Mangaloy with a pressed crown. The Osaka bikes opened the door for the
triumphant return of Bianchi to bike shops in America after fumbling through the seventies.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This causes me to ask: What's so great about Columbus tubing?

AndresMuro conjectured:

Quoted message said:

That it was named after a man who is responsible for the enslavment and massacre of a bunch of
people. visit my art website at: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

No it wasn't.

The founder of the manufacturing firm A L Colombo, SpA (later Columbus, SRL) named it eponymously,
not for Christopher.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6 Oct 2003 21:28:05 -0700 (Dumpster Bike) said:

what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.

The straightforward way to tell butted tubing (on most frames) is to measure the seat post size.
Since seat tubes are only single butted, ie thin all the way to the top, a butted seat tube will
take a larger diameter seat post.

For frames with 1-1/8" OD tubing, butted frames will have seat posts that range in diameter from
26.8 to 27.4mm, with 27.2 being the most common.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden] Madison, WI 53711 USA
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Jim Adney said:

On 6 Oct 2003 21:28:05 -0700 (Dumpster Bike) said:

what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.

The straightforward way to tell butted tubing (on most frames) is to measure the seat post size.
Since seat tubes are only single butted, ie thin all the way to the top, a butted seat tube will
take a larger diameter seat post.

For frames with 1-1/8" OD tubing, butted frames will have seat posts that range in diameter from
26.8 to 27.4mm, with 27.2 being the most common.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden] Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

I thought that the best way to tell butted tubing is to tap along its length with a piece of metal,
like a key or a coin. You can hear the change in tone as you move from one thickness to another.

(AndresMuro) said:

Quoted message said:

I thought that the best way to tell butted tubing is to tap along its length with a piece of
metal, like a key or a coin. You can hear the change in tone as you move from one thickness to
another.

Bologny, the metal in the middle will always have a higher pitch than when you get to the ends. It
won't sound much different in a straight gauge or db.

Andres

visit my art website at: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

Yes, you get different tones as you move along the length of any tube. Braze-ons and bridges also
change the tone.

Maybe I'm hearing things, but there is a quick transition area where the tone changes in a butted
tube in a way that it doesn't in a straight gauge tube.

Dan Daniel wrote:

-snip Jim Adney's tube set/seatpost dimenions -

Quoted message said:

I thought that the best way to tell butted tubing is to tap along its length with a piece of
metal, like a key or a coin. You can hear the change in tone as you move from one thickness to
another.

That's true. You get a similar effect along the length of a straight gauge tube.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

08 Oct 2003 22:20:53 -0700 Dan Daniel said:

Maybe I'm hearing things, but there is a quick transition area where the tone changes in a butted
tube in a way that it doesn't in a straight gauge tube.

If you are really hearing a quick change, then somethings playing tricks on you. The changes in wall
thickness take place over a distance of about 3".

I've never been able to convince myself that I could hear the changes, even when I had a bare butted
tube in my hand.

I guess the way to really test this would be to take a bare butted seat tube and see if I can hear
any difference between the 2 ends; only one end is butted.

-
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Jim Adney [email hidden] Madison, WI 53711 USA
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