Painful knee

ouch must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

Hi Everyone,

I hope you all had a good weekend? I went out yesterday for what was meant to be a 30~35mile XC
ride but had to cut short at about 20 because of severe knee pain in my right leg. It started off
as a strange feeling then a bit of pain, followed by lots of pain straight after our lunch stop.

There were 2 points of pain:
1. Somewhere central inside the knee. I can only be vague about this one.
2. On the right hand side, beside the knee cap and slightly further down. About 7cm down?

The pain was worst when I tried to bend the knee. At times it was excruciating.

I tried to make it to a station but had to call home to get a lift in the end because I just
couldn't ride. I could barely walk either. Luckily it wasn't TOO far from home, maybe about
40min drive.

I'm still stumped and can't work out why it happened. My only explanation is the cold weather and
perhaps a bad warm up, because the first 5-10min were downhill. My saddle is set quit high so I
don't think it's that either.

Any ideas? It feels a lot better now after ice/compression/elevation + sleep and I seem to be able
to climb stairs ok. How can I stop this from happening again? I'm worried. :-(

Are you using clipless pedals? It sounds like you have pulled the anterior cruciet ligament.

--
Ian

catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.ukOpen ↗

If you are wearing clipless pedals, it sounds like a cleat in need of repositioning on the sole of
shoe. If using ordinary pedals, possibly could be pushing down too much on the pedal.

Might be worth a visit to a sports' physio to have it checked out.

Cheers, helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h*$el***$$n*$d$ot$**s**i$$m*$m$**on**$s$@*$$a**$*ol*$*.*$$c$om*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~

hospital time- better to get it sorted now than never ride again...

--
-- Chris

"Ian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ouch must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

Hi Everyone,

I hope you all had a good weekend? I went out yesterday for what was meant to be a 30~35mile
XC ride but had to cut short at about 20 because of severe knee pain in my right leg. It
started off as a strange feeling then a bit of pain, followed by lots of pain straight after
our lunch stop.

There were 2 points of pain:
1. Somewhere central inside the knee. I can only be vague about this one.
2. On the right hand side, beside the knee cap and slightly further down. About 7cm down?

The pain was worst when I tried to bend the knee. At times it was excruciating.

I tried to make it to a station but had to call home to get a lift in the end because I just
couldn't ride. I could barely walk either. Luckily it wasn't TOO far from home, maybe about
40min drive.

I'm still stumped and can't work out why it happened. My only explanation is the cold weather
and perhaps a bad warm up, because the first 5-10min were downhill. My saddle is set quit high
so I don't think it's that either.

Any ideas? It feels a lot better now after ice/compression/elevation + sleep and I seem to be
able to climb stairs ok. How can I stop this from happening again? I'm worried. :-(

Are you using clipless pedals? It sounds like you have pulled the anterior cruciet ligament.

--
Ian

catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.ukOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Are you using clipless pedals? It sounds like you have pulled the anterior cruciet ligament.

Hi Ian,

I use toeclips. Is it serious if I have pulled the anterior cruciate ligament? It's not a tear (like
Paul Gascoigne, etc) so if I rest it will it be ok?

If it's what you say it might be, how did it happen and how could I prevent it in the future?

Is it something I should see the doctor about as Chris says or is rest the best thing?

ouch said:

Quoted message said:

Are you using clipless pedals? It sounds like you have pulled the anterior cruciet ligament.

Hi Ian,

I use toeclips. Is it serious if I have pulled the anterior cruciate ligament? It's not a tear
(like Paul Gascoigne, etc) so if I rest it will it be ok?

If it's what you say it might be, how did it happen and how could I prevent it in the future?

Is it something I should see the doctor about as Chris says or is rest the best thing?

Go to see a doctor, your GP in the first instance, don't accept advice from us. I have heard of
several sportsmen who have injured their ACL and it has taken several weeks to heal enough for them
to start training again. Rest will help of course but your doctor will tell you if it needs
treatment or just rest.

--
The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.

Quoted message said:

Go to see a doctor, your GP in the first instance, don't accept advice from us. I have heard of
several sportsmen who have injured their ACL and it has taken several weeks to heal enough for them
to start training again. Rest will help of course but your doctor will tell you if it needs
treatment or just rest.

Thanks for that. That's what I'll do. I hope I will be able to cycle again!

Quoted message said:

If you are wearing clipless pedals, it sounds like a cleat in need of repositioning on the sole of
shoe. If using ordinary pedals, possibly could be pushing down too much on the pedal.

Might be worth a visit to a sports' physio to have it checked out.

That's a good idea! I'll see if I can get a friend of a friend (physio) to check it out first before
I go to the docs. Am not too keen on docs!

ouch said:

Quoted message said:

Go to see a doctor, your GP in the first instance, don't accept advice from us. I have heard of
several sportsmen who have injured their ACL and it has taken several weeks to heal enough for
them to start training again. Rest will help of course but your doctor will tell you if it needs
treatment or just rest.

Thanks for that. That's what I'll do. I hope I will be able to cycle again!

I'd go and see a phsysio rather than doctor. when I went to my doc with a groin strain he said there
was no point in him prodding it all the could say would be "yes it hurts" he sent me to a physio who
did a proper diagnosis and manipulation that gave instant relief.

pk

ouch must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are you using clipless pedals? It sounds like you have pulled the anterior cruciet ligament.

Hi Ian,

I use toeclips. Is it serious if I have pulled the anterior cruciate ligament? It's not a tear
(like Paul Gascoigne, etc) so if I rest it will it be ok?

If it's what you say it might be, how did it happen and how could I prevent it in the future?

Is it something I should see the doctor about as Chris says or is rest the best thing?

I would advise seeing a doctor, if your seat is set too high and your feet rigid in the clips then
you have hyper extended your knee, these kind of injuries have a habit of turning nasty if not
treated correctly.

--
Ian

catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.ukOpen ↗

ouch said:

Hi Everyone,

I hope you all had a good weekend? I went out yesterday for what was meant to be a 30~35mile XC
ride but had to cut short at about 20 because of severe knee pain in my right leg. It started off
as a strange feeling then a bit of pain, followed by lots of pain straight after our lunch stop.

There were 2 points of pain:
1. Somewhere central inside the knee. I can only be vague about this one.
2. On the right hand side, beside the knee cap and slightly further down. About 7cm down?

The pain was worst when I tried to bend the knee. At times it was excruciating.

I tried to make it to a station but had to call home to get a lift in the end because I just
couldn't ride. I could barely walk either. Luckily it wasn't TOO far from home, maybe about
40min drive.

I'm still stumped and can't work out why it happened. My only explanation is the cold weather and
perhaps a bad warm up, because the first 5-10min were downhill. My saddle is set quit high so I
don't think it's that either.

Any ideas? It feels a lot better now after ice/compression/elevation + sleep and I seem to be able
to climb stairs ok. How can I stop this from happening again? I'm worried. :-(

Might be VMO inhibition (you can impress your friends with the term anyway). Basically the muscles
on the outside of your thigh develop and pull strongly on the kneecap, but the small one (the vastus
medialis obliqus) on the inside of your thigh is too weak to balance things out, so the kneecap gets
pulled out of line and everything starts to get rough and painful. To fix it, sit on the sofa with
your hands under your knees (while watching TV) and raise your feet so your legs are straight, then
lower them gently. Repeat 100-200 times a day and your knees should run true again after 2 weeks.
You don't even have to work up a sweat. The symptoms - I've had all this a couple of times - are
most common when you start serious distance riding after a long break. In the meantime, get out of
the saddle on hills and double check your saddle isn't too low.

Roger

<ouch> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi Everyone,

I hope you all had a good weekend?

Yes, I particularly enjoyed swearing loudly through an open car window. Another day perhaps.

Quoted message said:

2. On the right hand side, beside the knee cap and slightly further down. About 7cm down?

Not slightly round the back is it? I've had ligaments round there go with cycling, walking
and running.

Quoted message said:

I tried to make it to a station but had to call home to get a lift in the end because I just
couldn't ride. I could barely walk either. Luckily it wasn't TOO far from home, maybe about
40min drive.

Hmmm. Once on the isle of iona, once on the top of "the cheviot" and several times, including in the
marshes of the moray firth.

Quoted message said:

I'm still stumped and can't work out why it happened. My only explanation is the cold weather and
perhaps a bad warm up,

Had you got shorts on? Its a bad idea for me unless its 20C + Definately linked in my case.

Quoted message said:

Any ideas? It feels a lot better now after ice/compression/elevation + sleep and I seem to be able
to climb stairs ok. How can I stop this from happening again? I'm worried. :-(

If its just bruising and inflammation of ligaments it may just improve as they get tougher. But if
you are going to take this approach, give up as soon as it starts to twinge.

PK said:

ouch said:

Quoted message said:

Go to see a doctor, your GP in the first instance, don't accept advice from us. I have heard of
several sportsmen who have injured their ACL and it has taken several weeks to heal enough for
them to start training again. Rest will help of course but your doctor will tell you if it
needs treatment or just rest.

Thanks for that. That's what I'll do. I hope I will be able to cycle again!

I'd go and see a phsysio rather than doctor. when I went to my doc with a groin strain he said
there was no point in him prodding it all the could say would be "yes it hurts" he sent me to a
physio who did a proper diagnosis and manipulation that gave instant relief.

Whne I had pain in my leg earlier this year I thought I'd strained my hamstring, went to the doctor
and he couldn't find anything wrong but said come back in a week if it's still sore. A week later
the doctor still couldn't find anything wrong, so I went (privately) to a physiotherapist who took
one look at it and said 'I'm not touching that, get to hospital, get immediately to hospital, do not
stop for anything'.

She was right: an exceptionally severe deep vein thrombosis. If I'd been content with my doctor's
advice I would probably have died.

So the moral of the story is, go to a physiotherapist - although, in fact, any private or
'alternative' health practitioner will probably give you more time and attention than a GP can.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗ Das Internet is nicht fuer
gefingerclicken und giffengrabben... Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen. Das mausklicken
sichtseeren keepen das bandwit-spewin hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das
cursorblinken. -- quoted from the jargon file

Simon Brooke said:

So the moral of the story is, go to a physiotherapist - although, in fact, any private or
'alternative' health practitioner will probably give you more time and attention than a GP can.

That doesn't sound like not enough time - more like incompetence.

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

Quoted message said:

Might be VMO inhibition (you can impress your friends with the term anyway). Basically the muscles
on the outside of your thigh develop and pull strongly on the kneecap, but the small one (the
vastus medialis obliqus) on the inside of your thigh is too weak to balance things out, so the
kneecap gets pulled out of line and everything starts to get rough and painful. To fix it, sit on
the sofa with your hands under your knees (while watching TV) and raise your feet so your legs are
straight, then lower them gently. Repeat 100-200 times a day and your knees should run true again
after 2 weeks. You don't even have to work up a sweat. The symptoms - I've had all this a couple of
times - are most common when you start serious distance riding after a long break. In the meantime,
get out of the saddle on hills and double check your saddle isn't too low.

Roger

Thanks for that information. My knee feels quite a bit better now + there has been no swelling
to speak of.

I didn't know that I also have to 'true' my knees!

<ouch> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Might be VMO inhibition (you can impress your friends with the term anyway). Basically the
muscles on the outside of your thigh develop and pull strongly on the kneecap, but the small
one (the vastus medialis obliqus) on the inside of your thigh is too weak to balance things
out, so the kneecap gets pulled out of line and everything starts to get rough and painful. To
fix it, sit on the sofa with your hands under your knees (while watching TV) and raise your
feet so your legs are straight, then lower them gently. Repeat 100-200 times a day and your
knees should run true again after 2 weeks. You don't even have to work up a sweat. The symptoms
- I've had all this a couple of times - are most common when you start serious distance riding
after a long break. In the meantime, get out of the saddle on hills and double check your
saddle isn't too low.

Roger

Thanks for that information. My knee feels quite a bit better now + there has been no swelling to
speak of.

I didn't know that I also have to 'true' my knees!

Sounds v. similar symptoms to my VMO problem at the start of the year. After a few miles a dull,
warm ache would start under the central point of my right kneecap. If I kept on riding then the ache
would increase to a sharp pain. A sports physio diagnosed the prob and gave me lots of exercises to
rectify it. I was off the bike for about 6 weeks though but luckily it was Jan/Feb !

Good luck.

In article said:

Sounds v. similar symptoms to my VMO problem at the start of the year. After a few miles a dull,
warm ache would start under the central point of my right kneecap. If I kept on riding then the
ache would increase to a sharp pain. A sports physio diagnosed the prob and gave me lots of
exercises to rectify it. I was off the bike for about 6 weeks though but luckily it was Jan/Feb !

I've been given an excercise for the VMO muscle whereby I sit next to a wall and just tense the
muscle by pushing against with with my toes, but have now worked on to one legged squats to build up
all the knee muscles. Also straight leg raises - sitting with back to wall and write out the
alphabet with my foot in the air and leg straight. Starts to hurt by the letter M.

Did you also find pain running down the outside of the lower leg? Thats been diagnosed for me as a
repetitive strain injury on those muscles, and is taking some time to fix.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a
one way street, _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twighlight Zone.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Sounds v. similar symptoms to my VMO problem at the start of the year. After a few miles a dull,
warm ache would start under the central point of my right kneecap. If I kept on riding then the
ache would increase to a sharp pain. A sports physio diagnosed the prob and gave me lots of
exercises to rectify it. I was off the bike for about 6 weeks though but luckily it was Jan/Feb !

Good luck.

6 weeks! What am I going to do in the meantime? :-(

<snip snip>

Quoted message said:

Did you also find pain running down the outside of the lower leg? Thats been diagnosed for me as a
repetitive strain injury on those muscles, and is taking some time to fix.

- Richard

Yes, pain down the outside of the lower leg. Not very far down, but there's a nobbly bit of bone
just to the side of and below the kneecap. It's around there.

"W K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

<ouch> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi Everyone,

I hope you all had a good weekend?

Yes, I particularly enjoyed swearing loudly through an open car window. Another day perhaps.

Quoted message said:

2. On the right hand side, beside the knee cap and slightly further down. About 7cm down?

Not slightly round the back is it? I've had ligaments round there go with cycling, walking and
running.

Quoted message said:

I tried to make it to a station but had to call home to get a lift in the end because I just
couldn't ride. I could barely walk either. Luckily it wasn't TOO far from home, maybe about
40min drive.

Hmmm. Once on the isle of iona, once on the top of "the cheviot" and several times, including in
the marshes of the moray firth.

Quoted message said:

I'm still stumped and can't work out why it happened. My only explanation is the cold weather
and perhaps a bad warm up,

Had you got shorts on? Its a bad idea for me unless its 20C + Definately linked in my case.

Quoted message said:

Any ideas? It feels a lot better now after ice/compression/elevation + sleep and I seem to be
able to climb stairs ok. How can I stop this from happening again? I'm worried. :-(

If its just bruising and inflammation of ligaments it may just improve as they get tougher. But if
you are going to take this approach, give up as soon as it starts to twinge.

I had a similar thing which started on a 300k and got progressively worse. The medical explanantion
I got at the time (second hand ) is that is has to do with one or more small muscle(s) in the lower
leg.The muscle is/are not used for pedalling, and because of lack of use it becomes inelastic, thus
stretching the ligaments with repeated pedalling which is the cause of the pain. The best treatment
is to exercise this muscle by non-cycling exercises such that it becomes more elastic and places
less strain on the ligaments which attach it to the knee.

Hope this helps