further Floyd exogenous...

billb a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Best,
Bill Black

My Q's originate from :

"Speaking to procycling on Friday, professor Michel Audran of the Sports
and Industry Against Blood-Doping organisation said"

Q1 - what is he a professor of ?
Q2 - the org - is it his vanity org ?

Just Q's to which I don't have answers.

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
-
- Someone who knows too much finds it hard not to lie.?
- Wittgenstein, L.

billb said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Best,
Bill Black

Grasping at straws here while paddling on the nile...

He takes exogenous coritsol, is there a pathway for that to be
converted to testosterone? And for him to have a naturally high TE
ratio at the same time?

On 07/31/2006 06:42 AM, in article
[email hidden], "billb"

Quoted message said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Everybody is just recycling the L'Équipe story ... there's no new info or
independent confirmation that exogenous testosterone was actually found in
Floyd's sample.

However, knowing the pattern of doping scandals over the past couple of
years, I won't be surprised if it is declared to be exogenous officially,
regardless of the source.

Sandy said:

billb a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Best,
Bill Black

My Q's originate from :

"Speaking to procycling on Friday, professor Michel Audran of the Sports
and Industry Against Blood-Doping organisation said"

Q1 - what is he a professor of ?
Q2 - the org - is it his vanity org ?

Just Q's to which I don't have answers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Audran+M%22%5BAuthor%5D

Steven L. Sheffield said:

On 07/31/2006 06:42 AM, in article
[email hidden], "billb"

Quoted message said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Everybody is just recycling the L'Équipe story ... there's no new info or
independent confirmation that exogenous testosterone was actually found in
Floyd's sample.

However, knowing the pattern of doping scandals over the past couple of
years, I won't be surprised if it is declared to be exogenous officially,
regardless of the source.

Agreed. But what is interesting is the Landis lawyers are using the
release to L'Equipe as ground to prohibit use of the test results.
Why? the WADA lab released the results to the press before informing
the UCI. Not only that they content the tests themselves are bad and
their consistantly thrown out on appeal.

So the farce thickens. Tthink of the damage done to Landis and the
sport. Now move forward in time a moment to when the test results are
thrown out because the tests themselves are bad and unreliable. So
ask your self, will it have been worth it?

Ernst Noch a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

billb a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Best,
Bill Black

My Q's originate from :

"Speaking to procycling on Friday, professor Michel Audran of the
Sports and Industry Against Blood-Doping organisation said"

Q1 - what is he a professor of ?
Q2 - the org - is it his vanity org ?

Just Q's to which I don't have answers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Audran+M%22%5BAuthor%5D

It's fun collecting non-answers.
Osteopath ? More ?

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ernst Noch a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

billb a écrit :
> Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
> http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351
>
> Best,
> Bill Black
>
>
My Q's originate from :

"Speaking to procycling on Friday, professor Michel Audran of the Sports
and Industry Against Blood-Doping organisation said"

Q1 - what is he a professor of ?
Q2 - the org - is it his vanity org ?

Just Q's to which I don't have answers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Audran+M%22%5BAuthor%5D

It's fun collecting non-answers.
Osteopath ? More ?

I found his name here (Merci Google)

http://www.dopage.com/dopa4/fr/internet/01/model/index.php?id=0101_classe&idclasse=3

http://www.siab.ws/collaborators.htm

The name of his organization is Science and Industry against doping.

http://www.siab.ws/collaborators.htm

The name of his organization is Science and Industry against doping.

billb said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Best,
Bill Black

“When a sample shows a testosterone:epitestosterone ratio of more than
1:4, an IRMS test is now used to check for the presence of exogenous
testosterone,” Audran explained. “If Landis’s ‘A’ sample was positive,
it means that exogenous testosterone must have been found.”

That's what I've been trying to tell everyone since the beginning,
there is no way they would have put this out without the exogenous
test. Still one has to wonder why they didn't publicize it...maybe to
see what lies Floyd and his team would come up with.

Quoted message said:

Agreed. But what is interesting is the Landis lawyers are using the
release to L'Equipe as ground to prohibit use of the test results.
Why? the WADA lab released the results to the press before informing
the UCI. Not only that they content the tests themselves are bad and
their consistantly thrown out on appeal.

------------------------------------------------------
Wrong.

Actually I think our friend is referring specifically to the IRMS test
saying it was leaked to L'Equipe before it was given to the UCI/WADA.
This is most unlikely. It's just that Phonak, the ONLY official source
so far to my knowledge, did not mention this in their announcement. My
guess is that they want to let it sink in.

Pretty stupid if you ask me, just put out all the info and be over
with it ASAP.

Quoted message said:

The results were released by the UCI which then sent them to the rider, team
and the rider's national federation and WADA. Neither WADA nor the lab
released the results to the press. See the following:

"He explained by telephone why his group, known as the UCI for its initials
in French, had made the positive finding public days after the Tour finished
Sunday in Paris.

"We did that rather than have it leaked and the UCI accused of covering this
up," he said. The union had to notify the rider, his team, his country's
doping and cycling federations and the World Anti-Doping Agency."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/28/sports/bike.php#

Sandy said:

Ernst Noch a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

billb a écrit :
> Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
> http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351
>
> Best,
> Bill Black
>
>
My Q's originate from :

"Speaking to procycling on Friday, professor Michel Audran of the
Sports and Industry Against Blood-Doping organisation said"

Q1 - what is he a professor of ?
Q2 - the org - is it his vanity org ?

Just Q's to which I don't have answers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Audran+M%22%5BAuthor%5D

It's fun collecting non-answers.
Osteopath ? More ?

Sorry, I somehow thought you asked for what he mainly does as a
professor and what his credentials are. I wanted to give you the number
of Publications and how often you are he is cited in other articles.

Keith said:

billb said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Best,
Bill Black

"When a sample shows a testosterone:epitestosterone ratio of more than
1:4, an IRMS test is now used to check for the presence of exogenous
testosterone," Audran explained. "If Landis's 'A' sample was positive,
it means that exogenous testosterone must have been found."

How the hell does he know? He is just speculating that since the tests
are "now" done a certain way, it follows that a certain result was
found. Has he seen the results? If a meter-maid writes me a ticket it
doesn't MEAN that I was parked illegally. I may have been, but it
wasn't the ticket writing that makes it so!

Quoted message said:

That's what I've been trying to tell everyone since the beginning,
there is no way they would have put this out without the exogenous
test. Still one has to wonder why they didn't publicize it...maybe to
see what lies Floyd and his team would come up with.

You don't know that they wouldn't put this out without exogenous tests.
We'd like to think so, but know knows? That's the problem with this
whole mess.

Joseph

<[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keith said:

billb said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Best,
Bill Black

"When a sample shows a testosterone:epitestosterone ratio of more than
1:4, an IRMS test is now used to check for the presence of exogenous
testosterone," Audran explained. "If Landis's 'A' sample was positive,
it means that exogenous testosterone must have been found."

How the hell does he know?

Because IT IS THE OBLIGATION IN FRANCE !!!!

He is just speculating that since the tests

Quoted message said:

are "now" done a certain way, it follows that a certain result was
found. Has he seen the results? If a meter-maid writes me a ticket it
doesn't MEAN that I was parked illegally. I may have been, but it
wasn't the ticket writing that makes it so!

Quoted message said:

That's what I've been trying to tell everyone since the beginning,
there is no way they would have put this out without the exogenous
test. Still one has to wonder why they didn't publicize it...maybe to
see what lies Floyd and his team would come up with.

You don't know that they wouldn't put this out without exogenous tests.
We'd like to think so, but know knows? That's the problem with this
whole mess.

Joseph

Keith said:

billb said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Best,
Bill Black

"When a sample shows a testosterone:epitestosterone ratio of more than
1:4, an IRMS test is now used to check for the presence of exogenous
testosterone," Audran explained. "If Landis's 'A' sample was positive,
it means that exogenous testosterone must have been found."

What? You mean the reverse, 4 to 1 or higher means "You Are a Doper"
in cycling whether you took anything (cheating) or not. Just an
indicator and proves nothing except machines (mass specs?) can measure
ultra tiny amounts of hormones in urine.

-Ken

(in any case two of the most important people in Phonak completely
support Floyd's total innocence, the D.S. and the M.D.)

Keith said:

billb said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Best,
Bill Black

“When a sample shows a testosterone:epitestosterone ratio of more than
1:4, an IRMS test is now used to check for the presence of exogenous
testosterone,” Audran explained. “If Landis’s ‘A’ sample was positive,
it means that exogenous testosterone must have been found.”

That's what I've been trying to tell everyone since the beginning,
there is no way they would have put this out without the exogenous
test. Still one has to wonder why they didn't publicize it...maybe to
see what lies Floyd and his team would come up with.

What? They're curious? Playful?

No, this is all being handled very badly.

If this is science, the result of a valid, proven test, then you release it
clearly and without games like this.

Ron

Montesquiou said:

<[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keith said:

On 31 Jul 2006 05:42:01 -0700, "billb" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
>http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351
>
>Best,
>Bill Black

"When a sample shows a testosterone:epitestosterone ratio of more than
1:4, an IRMS test is now used to check for the presence of exogenous
testosterone," Audran explained. "If Landis's 'A' sample was positive,
it means that exogenous testosterone must have been found."

How the hell does he know?

Because IT IS THE OBLIGATION IN FRANCE !!!!

That's news. All this time we've been talking about this and nobody's mentioned
that. Now you say it's a rule.

Thanks.

Again, this is all being handled very poorly. One clear, well worded press
statement would improve the credibility of this lab, or WADA or the UCI
tremendously.

Ron

Quoted message said:

He is just speculating that since the tests

Quoted message said:

are "now" done a certain way, it follows that a certain result was
found. Has he seen the results? If a meter-maid writes me a ticket it
doesn't MEAN that I was parked illegally. I may have been, but it
wasn't the ticket writing that makes it so!

Quoted message said:

That's what I've been trying to tell everyone since the beginning,
there is no way they would have put this out without the exogenous
test. Still one has to wonder why they didn't publicize it...maybe to
see what lies Floyd and his team would come up with.

You don't know that they wouldn't put this out without exogenous tests.
We'd like to think so, but know knows? That's the problem with this
whole mess.

Joseph

in message <[email hidden]>, billb

(') said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Nothing new here. It's the L'Equipe report recycled.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
-- Drink C'lloid

RonSonic <[email hidden]> solemnly wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Keith said:

billb said:

Not good news for the "For Floyd" crowd.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2351

Best,
Bill Black

“When a sample shows a testosterone:epitestosterone ratio of more than
1:4, an IRMS test is now used to check for the presence of exogenous
testosterone,” Audran explained. “If Landis’s ‘A’ sample was positive,
it means that exogenous testosterone must have been found.”

That's what I've been trying to tell everyone since the beginning,
there is no way they would have put this out without the exogenous
test. Still one has to wonder why they didn't publicize it...maybe to
see what lies Floyd and his team would come up with.

What? They're curious? Playful?

No, this is all being handled very badly.

If this is science, the result of a valid, proven test, then you
release it clearly and without games like this.

This is medicine also. Therefore the French lab has followed a strict
chain of custody and a strict procedure. The French lab was given the
urine samples by the Tour organisation, without knowing whose samples
are these (there is only an identification number). The lab performed
the required tests, then delivered the results to the UCI. The French
lab is not allowed to communicate the results directly to the medias.
The UCI has all the information in its hands: which id number
corresponds to which racer, which tests were performed, which figures
are there.

The French lab is not responsible of all this communication problems. It
is like when you go to the lab to make blood tests: the lab has not the
right to communicate your blood test results to everybody. Same thing
for the French lab.