More hypocrisy

But DUDE! no one here ever felt the slightest pangs about using drugs
themselves. I'd be surprised if anyone here except me found anything wrong
with smoking dope. Pill popping is the world's pastime and if a kid is the
least bit figgetty he's doped into unconciousness and ALL of his family nods
their head and says, "It's much better this way."

Go into laff@me's medicine cabinet and I'd bet he has a whole pharmacy of
drugs in there.

Somehow the ONLY place that drugs are a no-no is on the race course. Which
is funny because the slowest Cat 5 on his deathbed could beat most of those
complaining about it here.

Bill C said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul28news3

German TV considers dropping Tour coverage
Floyd Landis' positive A-sample may have been the last nail in the
coffin for German TV station ZDF. "We have a contract to televise a
sporting event, not a pharmaceutical performance," said Chief Editor
Nickolaus Brender to the German press agency dpa.

"In this case, we will have to consider ending our coverage of the
TdF," Brender said. However, he wants to hold a discussion over doping
ethics with the German Cycling Federation and the German teams. In
addition, the ZDF is demanding guarantees of successful steps against
doping from the UCI and the Tour organisers, as well as an increase in
penalties, such as the possible suspension of racing teams.

OK so they don't want to be associated with a "pharmaceutical
performance" but they still carry fussball:
http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/inhalt/2/0,1872,1020578,00.html

Obviously doping accusations are much more serious than institutional
racism, riots, murders, match fixing, and hooligan gangs, and I'd love
to see the actual results of cyclings anti-doping plan applied to FIFA.
Money talks, and like in our American ball sports "It's all OK as long
as the cash is rolling in".
Bill C

Oh, come on now. I also think that's a bit silly from Brender - and
obviously he's blowing smoke, because ZDF and ARD (the big broadcaster)
are sharing the broadcast.
But anyway, if you had some of the misdemeanor you listed above as
persistently in soccer as we observe doping in cycling, they might react
different. But we just had a world championship here, and nothing of
that sort happened.

Yeah, maybe all the soccer players are doped as persistently as the
cyclists (might well be), or France getting WC by a giant conspiracy, or
whatever, fact is, nothing of that sort surfaced.

The presence of what the International Cycling Union described as "an
unusual level" of the drug does not bode well for Landis, but what
everyone is forgetting is that he cannot be judged guilty of cheating
until the second of two urine samples has been tested.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=775

Ernst Noch said:

Bill C said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul28news3

German TV considers dropping Tour coverage
Floyd Landis' positive A-sample may have been the last nail in the
coffin for German TV station ZDF. "We have a contract to televise a
sporting event, not a pharmaceutical performance," said Chief Editor
Nickolaus Brender to the German press agency dpa.

"In this case, we will have to consider ending our coverage of the
TdF," Brender said. However, he wants to hold a discussion over doping
ethics with the German Cycling Federation and the German teams. In
addition, the ZDF is demanding guarantees of successful steps against
doping from the UCI and the Tour organisers, as well as an increase in
penalties, such as the possible suspension of racing teams.

OK so they don't want to be associated with a "pharmaceutical
performance" but they still carry fussball:
http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/inhalt/2/0,1872,1020578,00.html

Obviously doping accusations are much more serious than institutional
racism, riots, murders, match fixing, and hooligan gangs, and I'd love
to see the actual results of cyclings anti-doping plan applied to FIFA.
Money talks, and like in our American ball sports "It's all OK as long
as the cash is rolling in".
Bill C

Oh, come on now. I also think that's a bit silly from Brender - and
obviously he's blowing smoke, because ZDF and ARD (the big broadcaster)
are sharing the broadcast.
But anyway, if you had some of the misdemeanor you listed above as
persistently in soccer as we observe doping in cycling, they might react
different. But we just had a world championship here, and nothing of
that sort happened.

Yeah, maybe all the soccer players are doped as persistently as the
cyclists (might well be), or France getting WC by a giant conspiracy, or
whatever, fact is, nothing of that sort surfaced.

Ernst Noch said:

Quoted message said:

Oh, come on now. I also think that's a bit silly from Brender - and
obviously he's blowing smoke, because ZDF and ARD (the big broadcaster)
are sharing the broadcast.
But anyway, if you had some of the misdemeanor you listed above as
persistently in soccer as we observe doping in cycling, they might react
different. But we just had a world championship here, and nothing of
that sort happened.

Yeah, maybe all the soccer players are doped as persistently as the
cyclists (might well be), or France getting WC by a giant conspiracy, or
whatever, fact is, nothing of that sort surfaced.

I was pleasantly surprised at how well the WC went and I'd bet so sere
their security officials.
Let's try a few questions when was the last cycling riot? I can't
remember hearing of one.
In soccer/football they are a dime a dozen though on the decline.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/footballviolence/0,,329575,00.html

How about overt racism?
http://www.le.ac.uk/sociology/css/resources/factsheets/fs6.html
http://www.axt.org.uk/Football.htm

Fans killing fans?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/footballviolence/article/0,,1536743,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/footballviolence/article/0,,1457477,00.html

Latest
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thugs dodge World Cup ban
June 4: Police report year-long dip in football violence as suspected
hooligans 'kept their noses clean'.

World cup 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deadline for hooligans to surrender passports
May 31: Banning orders for 3,000 football troublemakers
· Police trained to be friendly at World Cup

Comment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whatever happened to ... football hooliganism?
November 19, Iain Hollingshead: Sports fans often seek to emulate the
heroes they come along to watch. Football, the world's self-styled
"beautiful game", has always attracted a fringe element of fan
violence.

Bulgaria case
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Confession fails to stop jailing of Liverpool fan
July 27: A football fan has been jailed for 15 years in Bulgaria for
the attempted murder of a bar worker, despite another Briton apparently
admitting responsibility for the crime.

Cardiff City fans
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cardiff fans, no angels but not devils any more
October 23: Over the last decade the supporters of Cardiff City have
gained a fearsome reputation. More of their fans are subject to banning
orders than any other club in England and Wales.

Arrests
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Juventus tie sparks police alert
April 12: Police issued a warning yesterday to football fans planning
to cause trouble at the European Champions League quarter final between
Juventus and Liverpool.
21.03.06: 33 arrested after derby match

Euro 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Portuguese targeted by hooligans
June 26: Police in riot gear used CS gas to disperse crowds in Jersey
attacking members of the island's Portuguese community as trouble
flared across England in the wake of the football team's exit from Euro
2004.
25.06.04: Portuguese judges rule deported fan's conviction was just
22.06.04: I was tortured by police, claims Mann
20.06.04: Soccer thugs face jail in UK despite Portuguese blunder
19.06.04: Deported fans plead innocence
18.06.04: Tension and fear in town hit by violence
18.06.04: Thugs represented cross-section of UK society
18.06.04: Hooligan chic
18.06.05: Jailed fan treated unfairly, lawyers say
14.06.04: Fans rampage after England defeat

The stories never end.
How can anyone claim that cycling is more of a problem than football
with a straight face?
Bill C

On 28 Jul 2006 08:34:00 -0700, "Old Boy" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The presence of what the International Cycling Union described as "an
unusual level" of the drug does not bode well for Landis, but what
everyone is forgetting is that he cannot be judged guilty of cheating
until the second of two urine samples has been tested.

Everyone is forgetting? Who - the casual reader of some newspaper? The
regulars and semi-regulars on rbr have beaten the B sample versus A
sample to death several times. Even the ones that are rushing to
judgment know better - they simply fear they will miss their chance to
say 'I told you so'.

Oh, technically, he can be ruled guilty without a B - it is a rider
protest/appeal thing. If the A is left unchallenged through the time
for appeals, it stands.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ernst Noch said:

Yeah, maybe all the soccer players are doped as persistently as the
cyclists (might well be), or France getting WC by a giant conspiracy, or
whatever, fact is, nothing of that sort surfaced.

Because futbol has competent management!

UCI: I wonder what happens if I do this? [BLAM!] Owee,
owee, owee, owee, owee, owee, owee, owee. [Hops around on
one foot]. Thats odd. [BLAM!] Owee, owee, owee, owee,
owee, owee, owee, owee. [BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! ...]

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ernst Noch said:

Yeah, maybe all the soccer players are doped as persistently as the
cyclists (might well be), or France getting WC by a giant conspiracy, or
whatever, fact is, nothing of that sort surfaced.

Because futbol has competent management!

UCI: I wonder what happens if I do this? [BLAM!] Owee,
owee, owee, owee, owee, owee, owee, owee. [Hops around on
one foot]. Thats odd. [BLAM!] Owee, owee, owee, owee,
owee, owee, owee, owee. [BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! ...]

--
Michael Press

Yep, combine that with tons of money, which equals power, and you have
a lot of it I think.
Bill C

Bill C said:

Ernst Noch said:

Oh, come on now. I also think that's a bit silly from Brender - and
obviously he's blowing smoke, because ZDF and ARD (the big broadcaster)
are sharing the broadcast.
But anyway, if you had some of the misdemeanor you listed above as
persistently in soccer as we observe doping in cycling, they might react
different. But we just had a world championship here, and nothing of
that sort happened.

Yeah, maybe all the soccer players are doped as persistently as the
cyclists (might well be), or France getting WC by a giant conspiracy, or
whatever, fact is, nothing of that sort surfaced.

I was pleasantly surprised at how well the WC went and I'd bet so sere
their security officials.
Let's try a few questions when was the last cycling riot? I can't
remember hearing of one.
In soccer/football they are a dime a dozen though on the decline.

[News reports on soccer hooliganism snipped]

The stories never end.
How can anyone claim that cycling is more of a problem than football
with a straight face?
Bill C

You cannot compare apples and oranges. First, soccer totally blows away
cycling in terms of viewers, both on TV (see
http://forum.xbox365.com/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=016799;p=1
) and on location or via "public viewings" (is this a valid english word?).
In Munich they had to open the freaking Olympic Stadium as an emergency
measure to get enough space for people viewing.

Look at the complete numbers here
http://www.morgenpost.de/content/2006/07/10/politik/840511.html

3,3 million people in the stadiums, which consumed 869 000 litres beer
;-), 15 million people watching in public places.

In an event like this, they had one small riot, where around 500 people
got taken into custody. This shows that hooliganism is not an intrinsic
problem of soccer, but that rather other things factor in as well.
This is reflected by reports from hooligans, who often say that they
don't care for the sport at all.

Compare that with cycling, recent events - and I'm not talking about
Landis here - hint very strongly that doping is a very common problem in
cycling, deeply rooted in existing mafia like structures. My personal
opinion is that this is right, but is the same in a lot of other sports,
but that doesn't matter here.

B. Lafferty said:

Just to throw some napalm on Bill's fire, here's today's writing by Willie
Fotheringham:

This is exactly what the US sports, in particular, are avoiding. They
knew that any major attempt along the lines of the one cycling has made
would catch a [censored] of people and create a firestorm, so they,
glacially under duress, started half-assed testing. Rumor has it they
caught [censored] of people in both the NFL, and MLB, but the first
couple of years didn't count and the agreement with the unions, who ARE
1000lb gorillas, were that NO names would be released, and they
weren't. This gave plenty of lead time for anyone even vaguely smart
enough to find a doctor, or "trainer" to make sure they can beat any
test coming up. The government here is never going to be able to get
the kind of testing that cycling has through for the major sports. The
unions and ACLU will tie them up in court until hell freezes over.
As several people have pointed out, cyclings two real problems have
been public figures, ie: cops, prosecutors and politcians grandstanding
on crusade, and their at least vaguely real attempts to catch the
dopers.
No other sport with the possible exception of X-Country skiing has
come even close to this level of scrutiny and there's no real glory in
trashing skiing.
The GTs on the other hand provide these publicity mided people the
perfect stage to show just how "tough" they are with NO chance of a
real penalty, whereas FIFA would [censored] slap them so hard they couldn't
get elected sewer inspector after it all got done.
Pick an easy victim and ride them until they suicide, or are
destroyed, then claim victory that seems to be a pretty typical
mentality among crusaders against certain groups and "self-appointed
crimefighters".
What's sad here is the killing of a minority sport, and it's people
for selfish political/public gain. It's exploitation of the weak, pure
and simple.
Bill C

Bill C said:

B. Lafferty said:

Just to throw some napalm on Bill's fire, here's today's writing by Willie
Fotheringham:

This is exactly what the US sports, in particular, are avoiding. They
knew that any major attempt along the lines of the one cycling has made
would catch a [censored] of people and create a firestorm, so they,
glacially under duress, started half-assed testing. Rumor has it they
caught [censored] of people in both the NFL, and MLB, but the first
couple of years didn't count and the agreement with the unions, who ARE
1000lb gorillas, were that NO names would be released, and they
weren't. This gave plenty of lead time for anyone even vaguely smart
enough to find a doctor, or "trainer" to make sure they can beat any
test coming up.

You'll also notice that they don't make grand announcements of suspicions or A
tests or anything like that. They also don't use any tests that are in the least
questionable or unproven.

If the NFL announces that some player flunked a test, you can damn well believe
he's dirty. If any questions remain then everything is handled on that basis.
You'll never hear anyone going on the way [censored] Pound has.

Quoted message said:

The government here is never going to be able to get
the kind of testing that cycling has through for the major sports. The
unions and ACLU will tie them up in court until hell freezes over.
As several people have pointed out, cyclings two real problems have
been public figures, ie: cops, prosecutors and politcians grandstanding
on crusade, and their at least vaguely real attempts to catch the
dopers.
No other sport with the possible exception of X-Country skiing has
come even close to this level of scrutiny and there's no real glory in
trashing skiing.
The GTs on the other hand provide these publicity mided people the
perfect stage to show just how "tough" they are with NO chance of a
real penalty, whereas FIFA would [censored] slap them so hard they couldn't
get elected sewer inspector after it all got done.
Pick an easy victim and ride them until they suicide, or are
destroyed, then claim victory that seems to be a pretty typical
mentality among crusaders against certain groups and "self-appointed
crimefighters".
What's sad here is the killing of a minority sport, and it's people
for selfish political/public gain. It's exploitation of the weak, pure
and simple.
Bill C

RonSonic said:

This trash further confirms my opinion of the Guardian. Lining a bird cage with
this would be animal cruelty.

Did you steal Kurgan's parrot ?

Curtis L. Russell said:

On 28 Jul 2006 08:34:00 -0700, "Old Boy" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The presence of what the International Cycling Union described as "an
unusual level" of the drug does not bode well for Landis, but what
everyone is forgetting is that he cannot be judged guilty of cheating
until the second of two urine samples has been tested.

Everyone is forgetting? Who - the casual reader of some newspaper?

Tell that to German TV!!

😉

Curtis L. Russell said:

On 28 Jul 2006 08:34:00 -0700, "Old Boy" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The presence of what the International Cycling Union described as "an
unusual level" of the drug does not bode well for Landis, but what
everyone is forgetting is that he cannot be judged guilty of cheating
until the second of two urine samples has been tested.

Everyone is forgetting? Who - the casual reader of some newspaper?

Tell that to German TV!!

😉