Floyds Testosterone Levels Below Normal?

dasnootz said:

I just heard an interview where someone said that his testosterone levels were actually below normal, but his epitestosterone levels were even lower... creating an 11/1 ration of testosterone to epitestosterone above teh 4/1 legal threshold.

Maybe there's reason to still believe... or maybe I'm just setting myself up for another kick in the stomach.

Where did you hear this and who was interviewed ?

lw

lwedge said:

Where did you hear this and who was interviewed ?

lw

John Eustice on ESPN.com... Granted ESPN is hardly an authority on cycling but at least it's a sound bite.

You have to be an ESPN Insider to get link to play.

dasnootz said:

John Eustice on ESPN.com... Granted ESPN is hardly an authority on cycling but at least it's a sound bite.

You have to be an ESPN Insider to get link to play.

Well ? What's you login and password ? 😄

Thank's we'll find out soon enough.

This may be a local radio reporter repeating from the same ESPN source, but the Houston, TX sports radio show just said the same thing--testosterone level normal, epi level low creating a high ratio.

lwedge said:

Well ? What's you login and password ? 😄

Thank's we'll find out soon enough.

He also went on to say that the test which declared his "A" sample as positive has never held up in "Court"... not one single time, though he didn't name any specific cases where it came into play.

I'd like to be optimisitic and give Floyd the benefit of doubt, but seriously he needs to come out and make a statement. I can understand not showing up for scheduled races if it's doctors' orders, but remaining silent makes me think guilty... rightfully or wrongfully.

well i'm not true expert, but if he were using topical testosterone (or test suspension) daily his ability to produce his own would be repressed and this i wonder could lead to deacreased levels of epitest? maybe that's why the ratio test works???

Heard basically the same thing on NPR. But I think the ratio is now 6:1 raised
from 4:1 because of too many false positives?

T=testosterone
E=Epitestosterone
T/E of 1:1 is normal (?)
High ratio could be high T (doping) or low E (who knows?)

DiabloScott said:

Heard basically the same thing on NPR. But I think the ratio is now 6:1 raised
from 4:1 because of too many false positives?

T=testosterone
E=Epitestosterone
T/E of 1:1 is normal (?)
High ratio could be high T (doping) or low E (who knows?)

It's the other way around... it was just lowered from 6:1 to 4:1.

An exclusive interview with FL has just hit Si.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html

cPritch67 said:

An exclusive interview with FL has just hit Si.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html

Synopsis: Floyd denies it, has a lawyer, author wants to believe him but can't quite drink the kool-aid.

DiabloScott said:

Synopsis: Floyd denies it, has a lawyer, author wants to believe him but can't quite drink the kool-aid.

Ohhhh, I want to drink the Kool-Aid! I haven't yet, though...maybe just a sip🙄

If his testosterone levels are actually normal, is there any way to explain the messed up ratio? I find it hard to believe that testosterone doping would leave his levels normal.

SaxMan said:

If his testosterone levels are actually normal, is there any way to explain the messed up ratio? I find it hard to believe that testosterone doping would leave his levels normal.

Is there an endocronologist in the house?!?!

SaxMan said:

If his testosterone levels are actually normal, is there any way to explain the messed up ratio? I find it hard to believe that testosterone doping would leave his levels normal.

Assuming the test results are accurate, I don't know how the powers-that-be can decide what is a "normal" value for someone in such extraordinary conditions:

1) He had been taking cortisone (corticosteroid) for his hip. On the radio, they reported that his doctor said that he had stopped taking it "several weeks" before the Tour, but how long does it take the liver to recover after chronic steroid use? (The liver metabolizes testosterone.)

2) What was Landis's physiological state after the "bonk" and the ride on stage 17? My guess is that his adrenals were putting out lots of glucocorticoids (stess hormones, like cortisone) and adrenaline. Who knows what his liver was doing under those conditions? I could imagine that, under conditions of high stress/exertion, testosterone metabolism would slow.

I hope that the news outlets interview some real physiologists and see what they have to say about the above.

...without that professor from penn state to explain this to me, i have absolutely no idea what any of this means. don't they have "baseline" info on all riders from the pre-race physical? how can these samples be "hot" when all the others he had to submit as maillot jaune came out "clean"? something on velonews mentioned that mcquaid let landis' name out because the lab doing the test has leaked info to l'equipe in the past and he expected more of the same. are these samples handled in a truly anonymous fashion by lab personnel?

I guess to me, the "positive" side of this is at least we are dealing with naturally occuring bodily chemicals. The question "we" have to answer is why are they at the reported levels and is that "natural" or was it because of "manipulation"? At least it's not EPO or worse somebody else's blood.

L

Lonnie Utah said:

I guess to me, the "positive" side of this is at least we are dealing with naturally occuring bodily chemicals. The question "we" have to answer is why are they at the reported levels and is that "natural" or was it because of "manipulation"? At least it's not EPO or worse somebody else's blood.

L

Interesting link about ratio's (scroll down page)

216.109.125.130cacheOpen ↗

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2531677

Q: For a cyclist, what's the benefit of elevated levels of testosterone? Why would a cyclist use it?

A: (Dr. Gary Wadler) It's certainly not one of the first-line drugs one thinks of for racing. Steroids can increase strength and improve recovery time and prevent the breakdown of muscle, maybe make him more assertive and aggressive. All of those could have some positive attribute. But most steroids are given in cycles [6-12 weeks] and in context of working out in a gym with weights. It makes no sense to me why an athlete would take testosterone the day of a race when it doesn't work that way. It doesn't make sense in terms of the pharmacology of the drug, and it really doesn't have the attributes that would be attractive to a cyclist -- particularly one running the risk of violating anti-doping regulations.

Everybody knew the spotlight was on cycling. For eight years, the world has been watching cycling particularly closely. It would be the ultimate form of denial, or the ultimate sense of invincibility, to think you're going to evade that. And when the pharmacology of the drug doesn't really, in my judgment, seem like a drug of particular note to a cyclist, it doesn't really compute.

i still do not understand.

slovakguy said:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2531677

Q: For a cyclist, what's the benefit of elevated levels of testosterone? Why would a cyclist use it?

A: (Dr. Gary Wadler) It's certainly not one of the first-line drugs one thinks of for racing. Steroids can increase strength and improve recovery time and prevent the breakdown of muscle, maybe make him more assertive and aggressive. All of those could have some positive attribute. But most steroids are given in cycles [6-12 weeks] and in context of working out in a gym with weights. It makes no sense to me why an athlete would take testosterone the day of a race when it doesn't work that way. It doesn't make sense in terms of the pharmacology of the drug, and it really doesn't have the attributes that would be attractive to a cyclist -- particularly one running the risk of violating anti-doping regulations.

Everybody knew the spotlight was on cycling. For eight years, the world has been watching cycling particularly closely. It would be the ultimate form of denial, or the ultimate sense of invincibility, to think you're going to evade that. And when the pharmacology of the drug doesn't really, in my judgment, seem like a drug of particular note to a cyclist, it doesn't really compute.

i still do not understand.

Again... his testosterone levels were not high, rather his epitestosterone levels were too low.