Fixed gear ratios?

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

I am building up a fixed to be used for training/fun on rolling hills.
I'm ordering some cogs, but I'm having trouble deciding what ratios to
go with. I don't want to go nuts with ordering stuff, so I'm trying to
narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 to experiment with. Whenever I try to
figure it out by testing on my road bike, I can never make up my mind.
53x21, 53x19 are the two I have been leaning toward and their fixed
counterparts 48x19, 48x17. So I'm thinking 17, 18, 19.

Suggestions?

Joseph

Dear Jospeh,

You'll probably have to figure it out yourself for how you pedal and
where you ride.

When the Tour was ridden with no-derailleur rules, the riders used
flip-flop rear wheels that provided two gears.

They also rode (and pushed) on rather different roads than you're
likely to see.

Browse through here for an idea of what long-distance racing was like
in the 1920's:

http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/tdf/tdf%20history/tdfhistory1920.html

Look for haggard fellows pushing bikes up dirt roads in the mountains,
stopping to flip wheels at the tops of passes, slowing for cattle,
carrying long sticks to discourage dogs, mashing in desperate sideways
zig-zags to reduce the grade of the muddy Izoard, pushing bikes up the
Tourmalet, and finishing 19-hour stages.

In any case, the gearing used by pros is often higher than what most
posters on RBT use. Here, anything over 53x12 is viewed with a raised
eyebrow, but TdF riders routinely use 53x11 and some bump the front up
to 54 and 55 teeth.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

In the UK there has long been a tradition of holding restricted gear
timetrial events where you are not allowed to ride with a gear higher than
72 inch. I happen to find this is a good fast cruising gear and my fixie has
a 52/19 which with my current tyres gives me a 71.4 inch gear and a flat
cruising speed of 19.1 mph with 90rpm cadence. I am reasonably comfortable
on this on grades up to 10%. Most go anywhere fixie riders tend to ride
gears in the low to mid sixties. Many ride with a cog on each side of the
hub which with long horizontal drop outs can give you a reason range by
flipping the wheel.

Graham.

Quoted message said:

I am building up a fixed to be used for training/fun on rolling hills.
I'm ordering some cogs, but I'm having trouble deciding what ratios to
go with. I don't want to go nuts with ordering stuff, so I'm trying to
narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 to experiment with. Whenever I try to
figure it out by testing on my road bike, I can never make up my mind.
53x21, 53x19 are the two I have been leaning toward and their fixed
counterparts 48x19, 48x17. So I'm thinking 17, 18, 19.

Suggestions?

Most fixed riders settle for something close to 48/19 or 68" for
general tooling around. That gives you just over 20mph at 100rpm,
which works out about the right gear if you average about 16 to 17 mph
on your rides. If that's your speed, get a 19 for 'fun' and an 18 for
'training'

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

Graham Steer said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

In the UK there has long been a tradition of holding restricted gear
timetrial events where you are not allowed to ride with a gear higher than
72 inch. I happen to find this is a good fast cruising gear and my fixie has
a 52/19 which with my current tyres gives me a 71.4 inch gear and a flat
cruising speed of 19.1 mph with 90rpm cadence. I am reasonably comfortable
on this on grades up to 10%. Most go anywhere fixie riders tend to ride
gears in the low to mid sixties. Many ride with a cog on each side of the
hub which with long horizontal drop outs can give you a reason range by
flipping the wheel.

Graham.

I'm heavy, but all my hills (at least those I'll be riding with a
fixed!) are short. My commute to work on the road bike averages just
under 20mph, and I generally use 53x21-53x15 for that ride. I think a
48x18 maybe is a short enough gear, with a 17 on the other side. I ride
with a pretty low cadence usually, so I might spin out the 18 but due
to my size and the hills I think I'll need it. But it seems a 48x19
would be too light. I won't bother ordering a 19.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

I am building up a fixed to be used for training/fun on rolling hills.
I'm ordering some cogs, but I'm having trouble deciding what ratios to
go with. I don't want to go nuts with ordering stuff, so I'm trying to
narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 to experiment with. Whenever I try to
figure it out by testing on my road bike, I can never make up my mind.
53x21, 53x19 are the two I have been leaning toward and their fixed
counterparts 48x19, 48x17. So I'm thinking 17, 18, 19.

Suggestions?

FWIW, the Specialized Langster and Bianchi Pista come stock with 48/16t
gearing. I ride just a little shorter than that under that at 53/18 so as
to work nicely with my semi-horizontal dropouts.

--
Phil Lee, Squid

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

Suggestions?

_ I found this page pretty interesting.

http://www.the508.com/2004web/fixedfeature.html

Personally, I ride 50x18 and have managed a century
with some climbing ( Foxy Fall Century in Davis, CA about
1K meters of climbing ). I had to walk a bit on one of the
steeper hills and take a rest on the longest hill, but as
long as the gradient stays reasonable that gear works for me.

Fixed gear ratios are always a compromise, I don't think
anything like an "optimal" ratio exists.

_ Booker C. Bense

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joseph.santaniello said:

I'm heavy, but all my hills (at least those I'll be riding with a
fixed!) are short. My commute to work on the road bike averages just
under 20mph, and I generally use 53x21-53x15 for that ride. I think a
48x18 maybe is a short enough gear, with a 17 on the other side. I ride
with a pretty low cadence usually, so I might spin out the 18 but due
to my size and the hills I think I'll need it. But it seems a 48x19
would be too light. I won't bother ordering a 19.

It all depends on your pedaling style. Right now I have a 48 on the
front, and an 18 and 19 on the rear, and I usually use the 19 unless I am
with a fast crowd. I can get 30+ mph downhill with no real trouble.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but
_`\(,_ | what canst thou say? -- George Fox.
(_)/ (_) |

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

I am building up a fixed to be used for training/fun on rolling hills.
I'm ordering some cogs, but I'm having trouble deciding what ratios to
go with. I don't want to go nuts with ordering stuff, so I'm trying to
narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 to experiment with. Whenever I try to
figure it out by testing on my road bike, I can never make up my mind.
53x21, 53x19 are the two I have been leaning toward and their fixed
counterparts 48x19, 48x17. So I'm thinking 17, 18, 19.

Suggestions?

Joseph

I rode a fixie all winter long with 39x16 and I was very happy with
that ratio. Probably the same ratio with a bigger chainring and cog
would be better.
To me 39x16 was ideal in the flats (spinning, but not like mad), also
not too bad for rolling hills (maybe a touch low for descents - had to
use the brakes sometimes) and I also managed a big and steep hill (but
I was definitely suffering a lot!).
I managed to get close to 200 rpm downhill, which gives an acceptable
speed (but required a lot of work to get there).

Once I got used I found that my averages weren't much slower than
usually. At the end of the winter I was in a really good shape (better
than now...)

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

I am building up a fixed to be used for training/fun on rolling hills.
I'm ordering some cogs, but I'm having trouble deciding what ratios to
go with. I don't want to go nuts with ordering stuff, so I'm trying to
narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 to experiment with. Whenever I try to
figure it out by testing on my road bike, I can never make up my mind.
53x21, 53x19 are the two I have been leaning toward and their fixed
counterparts 48x19, 48x17. So I'm thinking 17, 18, 19.

Suggestions?

Joseph

Ride where you are going to ride the fixie with a normal geared
bike....find the ratio you like, remember what it is...look at a gear
chart and convert to the chainring and rear cog you wish to buy...for
instance-if you like the 39-15...and you want to use a 42t ring...look
up the equivalent of 39-15 inna 42-x...buy that. BTW-even early on, I
think the bikes were single speeds, not fixed gear...so they could
coats down hill, during the early years of the TdF..

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

I am building up a fixed to be used for training/fun on rolling hills.
I'm ordering some cogs, but I'm having trouble deciding what ratios to
go with. I don't want to go nuts with ordering stuff, so I'm trying to
narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 to experiment with. Whenever I try to
figure it out by testing on my road bike, I can never make up my mind.
53x21, 53x19 are the two I have been leaning toward and their fixed
counterparts 48x19, 48x17. So I'm thinking 17, 18, 19.

Suggestions?

Joseph

Ride where you are going to ride the fixie with a normal geared
bike....find the ratio you like, remember what it is...look at a gear
chart and convert to the chainring and rear cog you wish to buy...for
instance-if you like the 39-15...and you want to use a 42t ring...look
up the equivalent of 39-15 inna 42-x...buy that. BTW-even early on, I
think the bikes were single speeds, not fixed gear...so they could
coats down hill, during the early years of the TdF..

That's just it, I can never make up my mind when I try to figure it out
on my road bike.

Any idea when the first freewheels appeared?

Joseph

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

up the equivalent of 39-15 inna 42-x...buy that. BTW-even early on, I
think the bikes were single speeds, not fixed gear...so they could
coats down hill, during the early years of the TdF..

No, in the early years they really were fixed-gear bikes. Some had 2 cogs
per side, and you could get 4 different gears by moving the chain from one
cog to another, or flipping the wheel over.

I don't know whether the first Campy shifting system used a freewheel,
either, though the earlier (before Campagnolo's) derailleur systems did
use a freewheel.

Those certainly existed in the 1920s.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand
_`\(,_ | mathematics.
(_)/ (_) |

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

I am building up a fixed to be used for training/fun on rolling hills.
I'm ordering some cogs, but I'm having trouble deciding what ratios to
go with. I don't want to go nuts with ordering stuff, so I'm trying to
narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 to experiment with. Whenever I try to
figure it out by testing on my road bike, I can never make up my mind.
53x21, 53x19 are the two I have been leaning toward and their fixed
counterparts 48x19, 48x17. So I'm thinking 17, 18, 19.

Suggestions?

Joseph

Ride where you are going to ride the fixie with a normal geared
bike....find the ratio you like, remember what it is...look at a gear
chart and convert to the chainring and rear cog you wish to buy...for
instance-if you like the 39-15...and you want to use a 42t ring...look
up the equivalent of 39-15 inna 42-x...buy that. BTW-even early on, I
think the bikes were single speeds, not fixed gear...so they could
coats down hill, during the early years of the TdF..

That's just it, I can never make up my mind when I try to figure it out
on my road bike.

If YOU can't even make up your mind, how can we do that for you? I did what
Peter suggested and it worked out fine.

Lou

Lou Holtman said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
> days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
> What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
> hills? Mountains? Flats?
>
> I am building up a fixed to be used for training/fun on rolling hills.
> I'm ordering some cogs, but I'm having trouble deciding what ratios to
> go with. I don't want to go nuts with ordering stuff, so I'm trying to
> narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 to experiment with. Whenever I try to
> figure it out by testing on my road bike, I can never make up my mind.
> 53x21, 53x19 are the two I have been leaning toward and their fixed
> counterparts 48x19, 48x17. So I'm thinking 17, 18, 19.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Joseph

Ride where you are going to ride the fixie with a normal geared
bike....find the ratio you like, remember what it is...look at a gear
chart and convert to the chainring and rear cog you wish to buy...for
instance-if you like the 39-15...and you want to use a 42t ring...look
up the equivalent of 39-15 inna 42-x...buy that. BTW-even early on, I
think the bikes were single speeds, not fixed gear...so they could
coats down hill, during the early years of the TdF..

That's just it, I can never make up my mind when I try to figure it out
on my road bike.

If YOU can't even make up your mind, how can we do that for you? I did what
Peter suggested and it worked out fine.

Actually the tips and reasoning given by Graham and "Kinky" (Leave it
to the Brits!) have helped quite a bit in figuring it out. I need a
48x18 or 48x17. I think the reason I have problems basing my decision
on tests with my road bike is due to the hilly roads and my heavy
weight. At 230lbs I am quite dependent upon gears! There is of course
no such optimal single gear, and that is half the point of riding a
fixed, but I think their advice has helped narrow it down quite a bit.

Joseph

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

up the equivalent of 39-15 inna 42-x...buy that. BTW-even early on, I
think the bikes were single speeds, not fixed gear...so they could
coats down hill, during the early years of the TdF..

No, in the early years they really were fixed-gear bikes. Some had 2 cogs
per side, and you could get 4 different gears by moving the chain from one
cog to another, or flipping the wheel over.

I don't know whether the first Campy shifting system used a freewheel,
either, though the earlier (before Campagnolo's) derailleur systems did
use a freewheel.

From my history of the Tour which is unfortunately lacking in technical
details of the bikes it says that the 1911 winner Garrigou walked and rode
his way up the Galibier with a 4.2 metre (the French use roll out) single
speed freewheel. That's about a 52 -53 inch gear or a 48/24 combination on a
modern bike. The first derailler to be used was in the 1937 Tour including
by the winner, Lapebie, who was apparently renowned for pushing gears of
over 6 metres up the mountains. That's about a 48/18.

Graham.

Quoted message said:

Any idea when the first freewheels appeared?

Joseph

Dear Joseph,

First, a passage about single-speed gearing:

"A popular rule-of-thumb held that the ideal gear size was 'ten times
the crank length.' With the usual 6 1/2 inch (165mm) cranks of the
period [circa 1900], this meant a gear size of 10 x 6 1/2 = 65 in.
Racing cyclists chose a slightly higher gear, typically 69 or 72 in."
--"The Dancing Chain," Frank Berto, 2nd edition, p.60

Now for freewheels. By 1900, all sorts of weird derailleurs and hub
gears were in production, many using freewheels:

" . . . by 1914, Sturmey-Archer had prevailed in the battle with its
competitors. The 1910 Sturmey-Archer hub sold for less than one third
of the 1903 price."
--p. 61

Hell, there were bicycles with DOUBLE freewheels before 1900:

"In 1899, he [De Vivies] devised a mechanism with a chain on either
side of the fram. In this system, there is a second
chainwheel-and-freewheel driv eon the left side of the bike (in
addition to the usual drivetrain on the right side). When pedaled
backward, the left side drive went from the bottom of the chain-wheel
to the top of the sprocket. An idling sprocket reversed the chain,
which then ran back to the top of the chainwheel. When pedaled
forward, the left side free-wheeled. When pedaled backward, the
retro-direct action drove the bicycle and the right side freewheeled.
You passed from one drive to the other instantly and automatically."
--p.66

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

David L. Johnson said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

up the equivalent of 39-15 inna 42-x...buy that. BTW-even early on, I
think the bikes were single speeds, not fixed gear...so they could
coats down hill, during the early years of the TdF..

No, in the early years they really were fixed-gear bikes. Some had 2 cogs
per side, and you could get 4 different gears by moving the chain from one
cog to another, or flipping the wheel over.

I don't know whether the first Campy shifting system used a freewheel,
either, though the earlier (before Campagnolo's) derailleur systems did
use a freewheel.

Those certainly existed in the 1920s.

Dear David,

Flip-flop wheels were often fixed on both sides for simplicity, but
some used a freewheel on the higher gear side for descending without
being slowed down by having their legs whirl:

"Woodland quotes a 1920 report from one Vernon Blake detailing a gear
setup which would make good sense today: a flip-flop hub with 65" and
48" gears, often double-fixed, but with many riders preferring a
freewheel on the larger cog for fast descents."

http://www.63xc.com/willm/tdef.htm

("Larger" above means larger in the 65 versus 48 gear-inch sense, but
obviously smaller in the number of teeth on the cog.)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

"Phil Lee, Squid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

I am building up a fixed to be used for training/fun on rolling hills.
I'm ordering some cogs, but I'm having trouble deciding what ratios to
go with. I don't want to go nuts with ordering stuff, so I'm trying to
narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 to experiment with. Whenever I try to
figure it out by testing on my road bike, I can never make up my mind.
53x21, 53x19 are the two I have been leaning toward and their fixed
counterparts 48x19, 48x17. So I'm thinking 17, 18, 19.

Suggestions?

FWIW, the Specialized Langster and Bianchi Pista come stock with 48/16t
gearing. I ride just a little shorter than that under that at 53/18 so as
to work nicely with my semi-horizontal dropouts.

My Langster came with a 48/18 free...
So I put an 18 fixed on t'other side. It's a wee bit high so I might get a
19 fixed to replace the 18 free.
Peter

Peter said:

"Phil Lee, Squid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any idea what sort of gearing was used back in the
days when the TdF and similar events were ridden on fixed gear bikes?
What was/is considered an optimal gear for riding fast in rolling
hills? Mountains? Flats?

I am building up a fixed to be used for training/fun on rolling hills.
I'm ordering some cogs, but I'm having trouble deciding what ratios to
go with. I don't want to go nuts with ordering stuff, so I'm trying to
narrow it down to 2, maybe 3 to experiment with. Whenever I try to
figure it out by testing on my road bike, I can never make up my mind.
53x21, 53x19 are the two I have been leaning toward and their fixed
counterparts 48x19, 48x17. So I'm thinking 17, 18, 19.

Suggestions?

FWIW, the Specialized Langster and Bianchi Pista come stock with 48/16t
gearing. I ride just a little shorter than that under that at 53/18 so as
to work nicely with my semi-horizontal dropouts.

My Langster came with a 48/18 free...
So I put an 18 fixed on t'other side. It's a wee bit high so I might get a
19 fixed to replace the 18 free.
Peter

What kind of terrain do you ride?

Joseph

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Ride where you are going to ride the fixie with a normal geared
bike....find the ratio you like, remember what it is...look at a gear
chart and convert to the chainring and rear cog you wish to buy...for
instance- ....

My technique is similar, but a little more explicit. Take your
"geared" bike and ride all the terrain you plan on riding with your
fixed. On the most difficult hill, find the gear that will allow you
to **barely** make it up. Choose that for your fixed gear.

Tom