Discovery in disarray.... ?

limerickman said:

My tuppence worth : given that they have had a year to adapt their strategy, the last 12 months have been shambolic.

Therefore, DC need to address their team strategy ie. what races do they intend to try to win and have they got the firepower/tactics to win those races?
In addition, they need to look at how they're going to develop talent.
Do they buy in talent? Or do they try to nurture talent?

Their team is aging : Hincapie and Ekimov are getting on.
Their "new" blood like Hammond and Danielson were too old to be developed
anyhow.
Then they let Hoste go.

The Team management need to agree a strategy - they should have done this in July 2005.

I agree with all of this, although there's a bit of hindsight involved. Disco-hype aside, a lot of neutral observers though Hincapie was up for a GC challenge this year. Clearly, they were wrong. And Salvo managed a 5th place at the Giro despite suffering badly from allergies during that Tour. Bad luck and mistakes in evaluating talent added up to a big fat nothing. I think maybe they got lazy and presumed they were going to be able to lure Basso or Vino in to take Armstrong's place. This is a precarious time for the team -- Discovery's going to want more "oomph" for it's sponsorship dollar, and I think Armstrong will get bored with his involvement as well unless they do something special soon.

limerickman said:

Their team is aging : Hincapie and Ekimov are getting on.
Their "new" blood like Hammond and Danielson were too old to be developed
anyhow.
Then they let Hoste go.

Their unwillingness to match the salary offers Landis was getting at the end of 2004 was a huge mistake. Hincapie has got a few years left in him for the classics. I think he would have won P-R if his bike would've held up. Hoste is a huge loss.

But there is hope yet. Hamilton will be back on the market in September. 😄😄😄

limerickman said:

Their team is aging : Hincapie and Ekimov are getting on.
Their "new" blood like Hammond and Danielson were too old to be developed
anyhow.
Then they let Hoste go.

The Team management need to agree a strategy - they should have done this in July 2005.

Agree some, disagree some. Ekimov - is this his last Tour? Classics - they went with Devolder and Hoste, not bad choices. I stated once here before and will state again that, as good as Hoste is and as much as Davitamon needs a new classics rider, Hoste's departure was inevitable. Hammond, agree. For reasons unknown to me, Devolder has not done anything this year; is there any possibility that he can rebound.

But as far as the TdF, I think they put their money on Popovich some time ago. Even Hincapie said last year during the 2005 Dauphine that he expected to be working for Popovich in the future. Not a bad idea to go with a white jersey winner - but he needs more time. An inevitable gap, and hardly shameful. They take this year, reward Hincapie and Azevedo with some opportunities, and then build going forward. And besides, Hincapie was 14th last year, not a bad bet for some top 10 spoils in a transitional year, which the US press hyped up into a podium possibility.

Why they wanted Savoldelli to do the TdF, not at all clear to me, a bad choice. I vaguely recall, perhaps read it in this forum, but he didn't want to do the TdF.

But they do need a full rebuild, their support riders are greatly weakened - Rubiera, for example. He seems done. Danielson, not bad, one for three in completing GTs is disconcerting, but if he can do top 5 at the Vuelta this year, not too bad, we'll see. If he doesn't develop into a GT leader, because not young enough, he can at least be the main mountain support rider for several years, not a bad return for DCs investment in him.

But for DC, it is Popovich, Hincapie->Devolder. But they need one more GT leader and one more one-day rider. They disappear in the fall, and for that matter, they disappear in the Ardennes classics. Maybe Discovery doesn't care about that.

Forgot to mention Gusev, "fourth" at Roubaix, 2005 Russian TT champion, other top-10 finishes at Flanders, HEW, and Gent-Wewelgem, currently leading the Saschen tour with one day to go. So also a budding one-day talent. Maybe they will be OK on one-days with Devolder and Gusev.

JRMDC said:

Agree some, disagree some. Ekimov - is this his last Tour? Classics - they went with Devolder and Hoste, not bad choices. I stated once here before and will state again that, as good as Hoste is and as much as Davitamon needs a new classics rider, Hoste's departure was inevitable. Hammond, agree. For reasons unknown to me, Devolder has not done anything this year; is there any possibility that he can rebound.

But as far as the TdF, I think they put their money on Popovich some time ago. Even Hincapie said last year during the 2005 Dauphine that he expected to be working for Popovich in the future. Not a bad idea to go with a white jersey winner - but he needs more time. An inevitable gap, and hardly shameful. They take this year, reward Hincapie and Azevedo with some opportunities, and then build going forward. And besides, Hincapie was 14th last year, not a bad bet for some top 10 spoils in a transitional year, which the US press hyped up into a podium possibility.

Why they wanted Savoldelli to do the TdF, not at all clear to me, a bad choice. I vaguely recall, perhaps read it in this forum, but he didn't want to do the TdF.

But they do need a full rebuild, their support riders are greatly weakened - Rubiera, for example. He seems done. Danielson, not bad, one for three in completing GTs is disconcerting, but if he can do top 5 at the Vuelta this year, not too bad, we'll see. If he doesn't develop into a GT leader, because not young enough, he can at least be the main mountain support rider for several years, not a bad return for DCs investment in him.

But for DC, it is Popovich, Hincapie->Devolder. But they need one more GT leader and one more one-day rider. They disappear in the fall, and for that matter, they disappear in the Ardennes classics. Maybe Discovery doesn't care about that.

The Hoste situation has precedence.

Landis walked away from DC because of money issues too.

Bet Bruyneel is now rueing that decision as well.

limerickman said:

The Hoste situation has precedence.

Landis walked away from DC because of money issues too.

Bet Bruyneel is now rueing that decision as well.

Yeah. But Landis does not win the TdF riding for DC the year after Armstrong, were he to have stayed there, I think. It takes time to learn how to be a leader, and he lead for Phonak last year, which helped him get ready for this year.

JRMDC said:

Yeah. But Landis does not win the TdF riding for DC the year after Armstrong, were he to have stayed there, I think. It takes time to learn how to be a leader, and he lead for Phonak last year, which helped him get ready for this year.

Good point.

I just think that if DC were prepared to pay Landis what he wanted, he could have eventually led DC.

Well, great teams come and go. USPS came, won 7 TdF and numerous other races and now they have declined. Maybe they will rise again, maybe like other teams they will dissapear now that they have lost the rider most central to their team. Couple of months left to save themselves maybe.

limerickman said:

The Hoste situation has precedence.

Landis walked away from DC because of money issues too.

Bet Bruyneel is now rueing that decision as well.

Probably so.

Ekimov retired...did everyone see his victory parade the peloton gave him by letting him ride first on the Champs ELysees today? Classy move for a classy rider.

George has two more good years, and please focus on the CLassics George.

Danielson will ride the Tour next year after the Vuelta this year.

Popo? Hard to make of his ride. Maybe HE should focus on winning one day races or shorter stage races. The kid knows how to win races and showed that this year.

Beltran is over.
Chechu maybe one more year.

They need some talent.
Martinez looks to be a good rider for them.

But after a talent like Lance, there is a large vacuum to fill and you can hear the whooshing sound from Austin to Paris.
Yes, disarray, confusion, empty. Call it what you will, its a "building year."

An Asturian newspaper said a while ago that Chechu extended for two years earlier this year. He will retire with DC.

They should not renew Beltran's contract. Bruyneel had told Beltran last year he would not get a contract for 2006. However, LA asked Bruyneel to change this mind. Thi syear, I doubt LA would help Beltran.

At a minimum, if Ace's contract is up, his salary must be drastically reduced. He was recruited at 600-800K/year to replace Heras, and no longer deserves that.

I think there are only three or four riders that would meet the standards of a DC leader: Landis (has signed again with i-Shares, successor sponsor to Phonak); JU (possibility if he is cleared to ride, since TM and JU's relations are beyond repair); Basso (try to steal him from under CSC, but DC would have to pay CSC very substantial amounts); maybe Valverde (but I don't think his contract is up and he might like Caisse's Spanish management).

Apart from JU (if he is permitted to ride), there aren't that many attractive AND AVAILABLE canadidates.

TH is too tainted by the past to be acceptable to any sponsor. Maybe JU has similar issues.

Sachsen International Gour (Germany) is won by Gusev. M Barry is third! :p

Final General classification

1 Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 19.39.05
2 Lorenzo Bernucci (Ita) T-Mobile Team 0.45
3 Michael Barry (Can) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.59

LA: ""I feel a lot of pride and joy as an American, as a fan of American cycling. I think I can take a small bit of credit for helping develop Floyd. Not a lot of credit," Armstrong said, "but some credit."

"It's an honor that he [Floyd] was part of our program," Armstrong said. "He took something from it. ... For us it's a bit of a moral victory."

Big chunk of credit to Bruyneel.

musette said:

LA: ""I feel a lot of pride and joy as an American, as a fan of American cycling. I think I can take a small bit of credit for helping develop Floyd. Not a lot of credit," Armstrong said, "but some credit."

"It's an honor that he [Floyd] was part of our program," Armstrong said. "He took something from it. ... For us it's a bit of a moral victory."

Big chunk of credit to Bruyneel.

Good grief.

musette said:

..."It's an honor that he [Floyd] was part of our program," Armstrong said. "He took something from it. ... For us it's a bit of a moral victory."....

I hope he can find room in his trophy case for that moral victory... hmmm, maybe under one of those stuffed lions...
...

musette said:

LA: ""I feel a lot of pride and joy as an American, as a fan of American cycling. I think I can take a small bit of credit for helping develop Floyd. Not a lot of credit," Armstrong said, "but some credit."

"It's an honor that he [Floyd] was part of our program," Armstrong said. "He took something from it. ... For us it's a bit of a moral victory."

Big chunk of credit to Bruyneel.

Pathetic.

limerickman said:

Pathetic.

I repeat HORSESHIT!

musette said:

Sachsen International Gour (Germany) is won by Gusev. M Barry is third! :p

Final General classification

1 Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 19.39.05
2 Lorenzo Bernucci (Ita) T-Mobile Team 0.45
3 Michael Barry (Can) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.59

[censored]' hell, you're going to take a race that Matt Hayden (yes, Matt Hayden!) won last year seriously!?

jhuskey said:

I repeat HORSESHIT!

Sorry Lim, but some posts just send me over the edge. Yes Postal made Landis what he is, yeah right! I repeat HORSESHIT.
I am sorry ,I had a traumatic childhood. I mean why could they not give that rabbit a stinking bowl of cereal? Whats was the big deal! It warped me!
Trix is for kids! It's a rabbit. He is no threat! Like Hincappie,sorry that was tacky. George is cool in my estimation!

musette said:

I think there are only three or four riders that would meet the standards of a DC leader: Landis (has signed again with i-Shares, successor sponsor to Phonak); JU (possibility if he is cleared to ride, since TM and JU's relations are beyond repair); Basso (try to steal him from under CSC, but DC would have to pay CSC very substantial amounts); maybe Valverde (but I don't think his contract is up and he might like Caisse's Spanish management).

Disco should sign Cadel Evans. If Evans contract is not up this year, they should put up the money to buy him out of it. Evans needs a team to support him in the mountains and he won't get it at Davitamon.

jhuskey said:

Sorry Lim, but some posts just send me over the edge. Yes Postal made Landis what he is, yeah right! I repeat HORSESHIT.
I am sorry ,I had a traumatic childhood. I mean why could they not give that rabbit a stinking bowl of cereal? Whats was the big deal! It warped me!
Trix is for kids! It's a rabbit. He is no threat! Like Hincappie,sorry that was tacky. George is cool in my estimation!

hey no worries - but I agree with you, it is HORSESHIT.