To upgrade to 9 speed, or not to upgrade??

Double posting... SORRY! Disregard.

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:17:12 GMT, [email hidden] (BigBen)

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

The shifter for my rear derailer seems to be about to go belly up - to
downshift I have to press the lever a bit against the center of the
mechanism, otherwise it just goes round doing nothing.

BigBen said:

So assuming I will need a new rear shifter soon, and that my rear
derailer can handle a 9 speed cassete, should I upgrade to 9 speed -
I'm presently using 8 - or would that be a bad idea?

No reason not to.

Quoted message said:

My concerns are:

1) possible need for much more adjusting of rear shifting - presently
I simply turn a knob on the rear derailer that pulls the cable, once
in a blue moon - and,

No, no difference in terms of adjustment ease, and a new shifter will
shift better than a worn one.

Quoted message said:

2) Durability of drivetrain components - I don't mind chainging my
chains more often, but I would like my cassete and chainring to last
just about as much - and

No difference that I could tell in terms of wear. Just as many parts,
with essentially the same wear surfaces, so you will get the same wear.

Quoted message said:

3) Can I still get an 8 speed fair quality shifter (MTB)?

Not really likely. Cheaper models only, unless you want to go to a swap
meet, where the quality is uneven, to say the least.

For me (I use Campy) 9-speed cassettes are now significantly cheaper and
more widely available than 8-speed; if fact it's moving towards 10 being
the better deal, though it is not there yet. Shimano 8-speed is probably
still available at a good price, but 9-speed is certainly competitively
priced.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. --
_`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |

BigBen said:

Hi All,

The shifter for my rear derailer seems to be about to go belly up - to
downshift I have to press the lever a bit against the center of the
mechanism, otherwise it just goes round doing nothing.

This sounds like a gummy grease problem. Spray WD-40 or GT85 into the
shifter, actuate it many, many times, and it should free right up. It helps
to rotate the shifter on the handlebar so that it points up. Report back
here.
--
Phil Lee, Squid

Squid said:

This sounds like a gummy grease problem.

Funny, I just thought that given the wear, the lower part of the
mechanism wouldn't be engaging in the upper part, enough to rotate it

Quoted message said:

Spray WD-40 or GT85 into the
shifter, actuate it many, many times, and it should free right up.

It doesn't seems like its stuck - I can push the lower lever time and
time again, with no effect at all. If I thighen the screw in the
centre of the shifter, then it kind of gets stuck, hard to release
cable...

Quoted message said:

It helps
to rotate the shifter on the handlebar so that it points up.

Say again?? Normally I have the centre of the mechanism level with the
handlebar. You sugest mounting it how?

Quoted message said:

Report back
here.

Will spay it tomorrow, and report back.

Thanks,

jbr

BigBen said:

1) possible need for much more adjusting of rear shifting - presently
I simply turn a knob on the rear derailer that pulls the cable, once
in a blue moon - and,

Not a problem imho, the main parameters are wear, and component
(cable/housing and cassette mainly) quality...

Quoted message said:

2) Durability of drivetrain components - I don't mind chainging my
chains more often, but I would like my cassete and chainring to last
just about as much - and

9speed gears have almost the same thickness, but the chain is
significantly narrower, and I've heard people (roadies) regretting the
good'ol'times of 7-8 speeds in this regard (chain lifetime).

Quoted message said:

3) Can I still get an 8 speed fair quality shifter (MTB)?

The easier to find would be a shimano Alivio or Acera... Is it fair for
you? Otherwise, see guys like http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/ ...
For cassettes, there may be still HG70 ones available I think.

Nicolas, still in 7 speeds ;o)

Quoted message said:

9speed gears have almost the same thickness, but the chain is
significantly narrower, and I've heard people (roadies) regretting the
good'ol'times of 7-8 speeds in this regard (chain lifetime).

I don't understand this. The cogs are the same thickness or just
about, so why does a narrower chain wear out more quickly?

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Quoted message said:

The easier to find would be a shimano Alivio or Acera... Is it fair for
you?

I know that in Shimano groups, Alivio is the top for 8 speed (MTB).
What can I expect interms of precise actuation, and durability? (I'm
not sure which shifter group I have right now, but I think it lasted
fairly, and I don't think it is any higher in the hierarchy than
Alivio.

On that matter, would Sram parts be better? I just might change my
rear derailer for an "inverted action" one - that is, shifts to a
biger/lighter cog when release cable, instead of when you pull cable.

So, replacing both shifter and derailer is an option I'm considering.
Given that, better value for money is with Shimano, or Sram?

Thanks,

jbr

BigBen said:

I know that in Shimano groups, Alivio is the top for 8 speed (MTB).
What can I expect interms of precise actuation, and durability?

One "advantage" of 8spd is that you can use old Shimano (DX or XT) or
Suntour (XC Pro) thumbshifters... and they work very well.

(BigBen) said:

Quoted message said:

The easier to find would be a shimano Alivio or Acera... Is it fair for
you?

I know that in Shimano groups, Alivio is the top for 8 speed (MTB).
What can I expect interms of precise actuation, and durability? (I'm
not sure which shifter group I have right now, but I think it lasted
fairly, and I don't think it is any higher in the hierarchy than
Alivio.

Those aren't bad, but there are still many remaindered, NOS 8s XT and LX pieces
out there that can be had at low prices. Or there were when I last looked about
six months ago.

Quoted message said:

On that matter, would Sram parts be better? I just might change my
rear derailer for an "inverted action" one - that is, shifts to a
biger/lighter cog when release cable, instead of when you pull cable.

So, replacing both shifter and derailer is an option I'm considering.
Given that, better value for money is with Shimano, or Sram?

Both are excellent companies with good products. You left out the fact that SRAM
also makes Shimano compatible products that'll let you mix and match.

Ron

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

I don't understand this. The cogs are the same thickness or just
about, so why does a narrower chain wear out more quickly?

Because as the cogs are the same, so is the inner width of the chain,
and the thickness is gained on the outer plates of the chain - that is
a sensible part of it.

BigBen said:

Hi All,

The shifter for my rear derailer seems to be about to go belly up - to
downshift I have to press the lever a bit against the center of the
mechanism, otherwise it just goes round doing nothing.

So assuming I will need a new rear shifter soon, and that my rear
derailer can handle a 9 speed cassete, should I upgrade to 9 speed -
I'm presently using 8 - or would that be a bad idea?

I upgraded an old MTB to 9spd about a year ago, and it has definitely requrired more tinkering to keep it working properly after that. Not massively more, but clearly noticeable. Can't say that I've noticed any changes in wear though.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:31:14 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Those aren't bad, but there are still many remaindered, NOS 8s XT and LX pieces
out there that can be had at low prices. Or there were when I last looked about
six months ago.

Where did you look for them? In the LBSs around here, I don't think
there are none

Quoted message said:

Both are excellent companies with good products. You left out the fact that SRAM
also makes Shimano compatible products that'll let you mix and match.

For 8 speed shifters, would Sram be any better than the Shimano
Alivio?

Thanks,
jbr

when asked, used bicycle mechanics roll eyeballs then fall on
ground,convulse
when asked about fooling with used grip shifters
8 speed shimano chains are getting scarce in mail order for what
reasons i know not but i bought 3 last trip out
notice that 8 speed equipment is ungunghungh cheaper than 9 and 9 is
ewewewewewooooo cheaper than 10 - comparing 8 to 10 gurglrgurlgle
in cassettes, buying a 7 and adding your favorite cog for 8 on an 8/9
hub is really cheap
and go deore - skip the chrome for an extra -$10
so tell us - why do you yearn for a 9 over an 8?

(BigBen) said:

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:31:14 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Those aren't bad, but there are still many remaindered, NOS 8s XT and LX pieces
out there that can be had at low prices. Or there were when I last looked about
six months ago.

Where did you look for them? In the LBSs around here, I don't think
there are none

Not knowing where you are I couldn't check, but shopping online, which is just
as close to you as me, I found tons of the stuff at very reasonable prices.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Both are excellent companies with good products. You left out the fact that SRAM
also makes Shimano compatible products that'll let you mix and match.

For 8 speed shifters, would Sram be any better than the Shimano
Alivio?

If you prefer grip shifters they'd be far better. Almost everything else is at
price point. You get what you pay for.

Ron

BigBen said:

Squid said:

This sounds like a gummy grease problem.

Funny, I just thought that given the wear, the lower part of the
mechanism wouldn't be engaging in the upper part, enough to rotate it

This is a common problem... IME, 7 out of 10 RapidFire shifters that haven't
been crashed can be fixed this way.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Spray WD-40 or GT85 into the
shifter, actuate it many, many times, and it should free right up.

It doesn't seems like its stuck - I can push the lower lever time and
time again, with no effect at all. If I thighen the screw in the
centre of the shifter, then it kind of gets stuck, hard to release
cable...

When you push the lower lever, try pushing on it at an angle, downward and
in instead of just straight in. If it catches when you do that, then you
have gummy grease.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It helps
to rotate the shifter on the handlebar so that it points up.

Say again?? Normally I have the centre of the mechanism level with the
handlebar. You sugest mounting it how?

Here's a previous thread that may help explain it with a slightly different
technique:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/tree/browse_frm/thread/3d76f8b4c8cbca68/b4f20f4bed8b105b?rnum=1&q=shimano+rapidfire+gummed&_done=%2Fgroup%2Frec.bicycles.tech%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F3d76f8b4c8cbca68%2F790c130193410e33%3Flnk%3Dst%26q%3Dshimano+rapidfire+gummed%26rnum%3D1%26#doc_b01d78d3c27870de

Quoted message said:

Will spay it tomorrow, and report back.

No need to spay, just spray, and spray lots of it. You may need to let it
sit for an hour between sprays.

--
Phil Lee, Squid

Quoted message said:

8 speed shimano chains are getting scarce in mail order for what

Sram 8 speed chain are everywhere I drop by to see something bicycle.

Quoted message said:

so tell us - why do you yearn for a 9 over an 8?

I like the 25/12 cassete with 9 speeds, but not the one with 8 - it
has cog 14 missing. (At least Shimano cassetes do. I can't get any
such information on Sram cassetes - do they make a secret??)

jbr

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:24:40 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Not knowing where you are I couldn't check, but shopping online, which is just
as close to you as me, I found tons of the stuff at very reasonable prices.

Portugal. Shoping online for me is easier from the UK - customs make
it a pain to buy anything from the US.

Quoted message said:

If you prefer grip shifters they'd be far better. Almost everything else is at
price point. You get what you pay for.

Grip shifters it is, on flat handlebar. Good to know, thanks!

(BigBen) said:

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:24:40 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Not knowing where you are I couldn't check, but shopping online, which is just
as close to you as me, I found tons of the stuff at very reasonable prices.

Portugal. Shoping online for me is easier from the UK - customs make
it a pain to buy anything from the US.

Quoted message said:

If you prefer grip shifters they'd be far better. Almost everything else is at
price point. You get what you pay for.

Grip shifters it is, on flat handlebar. Good to know, thanks!

Well, SRAM have two different lines of twisty shifts, their own proprietary
system ESP that works with either Sram or Shimano front mechs and only Sram ESP
rears, and ones that are completely Shimano compatible.

Check the UK mail order houses. Some advertise on eBay others should show up on
a google search.

Ron

Quoted message said:

Sram 8 speed chain are everywhere I drop by to see something bicycle.

something you ate?
a ten maybe?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so tell us - why do you yearn for a 9 over an 8?

I like the 25/12 cassete with 9 speeds, but not the one with 8 - it
has cog 14 missing. (At least Shimano cassetes do. I can't get any
such information on Sram cassetes - do they make a secret??)

drill the rivits out and put a 14 in

check sheldon browns' cassette list for concept

bulding your own should eventually give a wide sweet spot

i had 7's from loosescrews. beaut sweet spot. loved those cogs
course i was agoin downwind...