Lthr ?

CUBE said:

hey all

i have a question about my lactate threshold heartrate. A year ago I bought a book about cycling training in which the concept of lactate threshold heartrate was explained. I was stated that one's LTHR is calculated as 91% of the maximum heartrate. After a few tests which I did I could relatively be sure that my maximum heartrate was 194, and my LTHR would than have to be 177 (91% of MHR). I used these numbers to base my trainings on.

However a few weeks ago I bought Joe Friels training bible in which it was stated that LTHR varies enormously among individuals. So for some the LTHR is 80% of MHR, and for others LTHR is 96% of MHR.

I recalculated my LTHR using Friel's approach and came up with an LTHR of 159.

My questions are:

- Could my LTHR have lowered through training? I read somewhere that this happens because your body becomes more efficient, however I think this is weird because you actually become anaerobic more easilly.😕

- Friel states that cyclists which have anaerobic edurance times of above 5 minutes are classified as "excellent". The weird thing is that outside on the road wearing my heart rate monitor I could sustain intervals of 40 minutes, with an average HR of 177, so far above both calculated LTHR???😕 what's going on here?

thanks already

Cube,

If I remember correctly (It has been a while since I trained with HR), Friel also suggests that to find your LTHR, you do a 30 minute TT and take the average of the last 20 minutes.

When I did this after being completely rested, I averaged 190 for the final 20 minutes of a 30 minute TT. This seems to be about 92% of my max. The max that I had seen at that time was 206.

I would be more inclined to use 177 as your LTHR...

My advice, though, is not to look at your HR over the course of a 20k TT, but record it. Check afterward. The average of the last 20 minutes should be your LTHR...

YMMV

Jim

Agree, 177 is more useful. Use this around a threshold model (see Friel again) of HR zones. See his HR zone chart, use 177 in the bold column.

FWIW, I like Coggan's zone 4 which captures FTHR as opposed to Friel's 4-5a model. Easier to communicate with athletes (coaching).

could be that the 177 is the more accurate.

but the friel test (last 20 minutes average of a 30 min tt) came up with the 159 HR average , and this is the average of the test repeated 10 times.....

another thing: heavy breathing and the burning sensation sets in at around Hr 160, which are indicators for going anaerobic.

ill also redo the test, without looking at the HR , maybe the number will be different

Testing:

You've made a mistake if the last 20 minutes of 30 is 159 AV and you also say that you can do a 40 minute interval at 177 AV. These two observations contradict each other.

Spunout said:

Testing:

You've made a mistake if the last 20 minutes of 30 is 159 AV and you also say that you can do a 40 minute interval at 177 AV. These two observations contradict each other.

yep I CAN do 177 average, but I am pretty sure I am anaerobic at that point, namely very rapid breathing, dizziness, and a general feeling not to repeat that. I have actually done it once, for 40 minutes. Normally I did shorter intervals (10 minutes). So I actually think that I am above my LTHR at that point.

On normal rides outside (I ride alone) my average is ALWAYS around 150 , 160 max. Only inside on the spinner I can force myself up top 170 and higher

CUBE said:

yep I CAN do 177 average, but I am pretty sure I am anaerobic at that point, namely very rapid breathing, dizziness, and a general feeling not to repeat that. I have actually done it once, for 40 minutes. Normally I did shorter intervals (10 minutes). So I actually think that I am above my LTHR at that point.

On normal rides outside (I ride alone) my average is ALWAYS around 150 , 160 max. Only inside on the spinner I can force myself up top 170 and higher

Use 177 as FTHR....don't worry about LTHR as it is a pretty fuzzy target at best.