Hub gear scorcher

Jenny Brien said:

I'm thinking of building something like Sheldon's San Jose8, preferably
keeping the option of swapping a fixed gear back in quickly. The base
frame that comes closest to my ideal is the On One Il Pompino, but that
has a 120mm rear dropout spacing, as, I suspect, would any suitable old
frame I could find.

Cold setting a new frame 10mm is a bit nerve wracking, however, cold
setting an old road bike frame from 126 to 130 takes just a couple
minutes. I don't remember if the Nexus hubs can be rewashered to go
down to 120 w/o cold setting either. Probably not.

I haven't ridden the modern Sachs hubs so can't comment, but I've done
10's of K on Nexus hubs and think that they're the best gearing system
on the planet for general use.

Hi Jenny,

I'm a bit confused, as the On One Il Pompino has 135mm rear dropout
spacing:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=5&MMN_position=95:95

Quoted message said:

From the above web page:

il Pompino

<snip>

Other stuff
OTHER STUFF
Seatpost size: 27.2mm (the tube is slotted at the front, to stop muck
getting in)
BB Shell: 68mm (axle length of 113mm for most cranks these days)
Headtube size: 1.125in (inch and an eighth)
Rear spacing: 135mm. Use 130mm road hubs with a chaintug on the inside
of the dropout, or just pull the rear triangle together. We've tried
both ways and it doesn't seem to mind to be honest.

In fact, I couldn't even find a 120mm-spaced bike on their web site
(which is not to say they don't make one). Does this solve your
problem?

Also, I have a Nexus 7 hub and my wife has a Nexus 8 hub, both on
Bianchi Milanos. We love our Milanos (and their hubs) more than
anything, and they're extremely stylish bikes. I understand the appeal
of building one's own bike, but have you considered a Milano as a
scorcher-style bike?

Cheers,

Jason

Jenny Brien said:

I'm thinking of building something like Sheldon's San Jose8, preferably
keeping the option of swapping a fixed gear back in quickly. The base
frame that comes closest to my ideal is the On One Il Pompino, but that
has a 120mm rear dropout spacing, as, I suspect, would any suitable old
frame I could find.

Does the Nexus 8 offer enough advantages to make it worth cold-setting
the frame? Alternatives are a Sachs or SA five which should fit OK.
Assuming a 60" direct drive that would give me a low of 40" and a high
of 90" compared with 36" and 96" for the Nexus. I think I can manage
with that. The bike will mostly be used on the road, lightly loaded,
but also for exploring any interesting track I come across, just to see
where it goes.

Another consideration is that I'd like to keep a cool retro look, like
the bike could have competed in a 1950's Tour. Many years ago I had a
SA five that could be controlled by downtube levers. It was a devil to
set up; if the adjustment was not exact, I'd find myself myself
shifting into neutral. Do current models still have the same 'feature'?

Suggestions, please, for UK and Ireland suppliers of suitable gears and
controls.

Quoted message said:

Hi Jenny,

I'm a bit confused, as the On One Il Pompino has 135mm rear dropout
spacing:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=5&MMN_position=95:95

Quoted message said:

loose frames are 135, complete bikes use 120mm
--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Quoted message said:

Hi Jenny,

I'm a bit confused, as the On One Il Pompino has 135mm rear dropout
spacing:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=5&MMN_position=95:95

Alas, that was the 2005 model, now sold out in the size I need. :-(

Quoted message said:

Also, I have a Nexus 7 hub and my wife has a Nexus 8 hub, both on
Bianchi Milanos. We love our Milanos (and their hubs) more than
anything, and they're extremely stylish bikes. I understand the appeal
of building one's own bike, but have you considered a Milano as a
scorcher-style bike?

Nice bike, but not what I need for Irish lanes.

Jenny Brien said:

I'm thinking of building something like Sheldon's San Jose8, preferably
keeping the option of swapping a fixed gear back in quickly. The base
frame that comes closest to my ideal is the On One Il Pompino, but that
has a 120mm rear dropout spacing, as, I suspect, would any suitable old
frame I could find.

Does the Nexus 8 offer enough advantages to make it worth cold-setting
the frame? Alternatives are a Sachs or SA five which should fit OK.

The SRAM P5 is a very nice hub with slightly wider overall range than
the Shimano Nexus 7. It should fit in a 120mm frame with no
modification. My wife has had one in her bike since 1998 without
problems.

Note that most track frames are spaced 110mm. 120mm is 5-speed
spacing.

Chalo

Chalo said:

Note that most track frames are spaced 110mm. 120mm is 5-speed
spacing.

The ones I'm familiar with are 120...but aren't really "track" bikes,
but messenger wannabes like the Surly Steamroller:

http://www.surlybikes.com/steamroller.html

Why wouldn't they just make it 110, if that's the track standard?

Phil Wood doesn't seem to offer a 110mm hub according to the Harris
site either. Only 120+

Is 110 some sort of esoteric standard??

landotter said:

Is 110 some sort of esoteric standard??

No, it's the established standard for both track bikes and BMX bikes,
as well as everything with a one-speed coaster brake hub. There are
probably more bikes spaced 110mm worldwide than there are bikes spaced
120mm, 126mm, 130mm, and 135mm put together.

Chalo

Chalo said:

landotter said:

Is 110 some sort of esoteric standard??

No, it's the established standard for both track bikes and BMX bikes,
as well as everything with a one-speed coaster brake hub. There are
probably more bikes spaced 110mm worldwide than there are bikes spaced
120mm, 126mm, 130mm, and 135mm put together.

Chalo

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

91 mm Low-end front hubs.
96 mm Older front hubs, especially French.
100 mm Modern front hubs.
110 mm Rear older track, coaster brake and other single-speed hubs.
Also, front hubs for Downhill bikes with 20 mm axles.
120 mm Rear 5-speed, Ultra 6, newer track hubs.
126 mm Rear 6- and 7-speed (road).
130 mm Rear 7-speed (MTB) and 8- 9- and 10-speed (road).
135 mm Rear 7- 8- and 9-speed (MTB)
140 mm Rear tandem.
145 mm Rear tandem (newer models.)
150 mm Retro-Choppers, some Downhill and Freeride models.
160 mm Rear tandem (new Santana proposed standard.)

PiledHIgher said:

110 mm Rear older track, coaster brake and other single-speed hubs.

Quoted message said:

120 mm Rear 5-speed, Ultra 6, newer track hubs.

There ya go, Chalo, we were both right in a way. :-P

110 is indeed the most common in the world, I've got a couple beaters
in the garage that prove that.

😄

In message <[email hidden]>,
Jenny Brien <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I'm thinking of building something like Sheldon's San Jose8, preferably
keeping the option of swapping a fixed gear back in quickly. The base
frame that comes closest to my ideal is the On One Il Pompino, but that
has a 120mm rear dropout spacing, as, I suspect, would any suitable old
frame I could find.

Old lightweight frames intended for sports hub gears would be 110mm
spacing or thereabouts and would probably be 1940s or 1950s but most
frames with "horizontal" dropouts intended for DR gears would be OK for
a Sturmey Archer hub as long as you don't mind the extras little frame
bits you don't need or are happy to cut 'em off.

Plenty of nice old Reynolds 531 frames around that would do very well.

Quoted message said:

Does the Nexus 8 offer enough advantages to make it worth cold-setting
the frame? Alternatives are a Sachs or SA five which should fit OK.
Assuming a 60" direct drive that would give me a low of 40" and a high
of 90" compared with 36" and 96" for the Nexus. I think I can manage
with that. The bike will mostly be used on the road, lightly loaded,
but also for exploring any interesting track I come across, just to see
where it goes.

Quoted message said:

You can fit a brakeless Sturmey 3 or 5 speed hub into a frame with
130mm spacing. Just make sure you get one with a long axle (6 3/8"😉 and
use some extra spacers between the left hand cone and lock nut. There
are old hubs with 6 1/8" axles which would suit 120mm oln well. The 3s
and 5s fit down to 110mm. Putting spacers on the right (to adjust the
chainline beyond what you can do with sprocket dish and sprocket spacing
washers) may be a bit more limited on the later Sprinter models as you
need a decent bit of thread to take the block that guides the little
chain.

On many horizontal drop out frames the slot is rather wide for the axle
flats and anti-rotation washers of Sturmey gears. It is essential that
you get an anti rotation method that is sound. Some drop outs are thick
enough to let you use anti rotation washers both sides or a Sturmey one
inside and a different type outside.

Quoted message said:

Another consideration is that I'd like to keep a cool retro look, like
the bike could have competed in a 1950's Tour.

Sports hub gears were mainly aimed at time trialists.

Quoted message said:

Many years ago I had a
SA five that could be controlled by downtube levers. It was a devil to
set up; if the adjustment was not exact, I'd find myself myself
shifting into neutral.

These work much better with two three speed SA triggers but you still
have to make sure the cables are free running and the gear adjusted
properly.

Quoted message said:

Do current models still have the same 'feature'?

From the introduction of the feeble 5 StAr in the early 1990s, Sturmey
Archer 5 speeds do not have the famous neutral. (They introduced an
extra set of ratchet pawls and a different clutch design and called it
No Intermediate Gear (NIG) - should really be "non Gear" but there we
are). Some 3s were produced with NIG in the 90s and Taiwan production is
all NIG I think.

*But* you still have to be careful about adjustment. The Sprinters have
a coloured ring on the rod that must be exactly aligned with the end of
the axle - in gear 2 for the late 5 speed sprinters. They are actually
more fussy about precise adjustment than the old "neutral" gears but in
some ways the adjustment is more obvious on the new hubs. We have a year
2000 Sprinter 5 speed that works well but no experience of the Taiwan
ones - no reason to believe they are not as good or better. The later
Sprinters with a blue adjustment ring are probably better than the ones
with a red ring.

Quoted message said:

Suggestions, please, for UK and Ireland suppliers of suitable gears and
controls.

Old Bike Trader in Kent carries the current SA hubs if you want to go
mail order otherwise you could contact the Netherlands SA office for
information on arrangements for Ireland.

If this is a drop bar project, you will have to do some thinking about
controls. There are no controls intended for drops but you can put an
adapter in the end of the bar and fit a twist grip there.

I prefer the old two cable 5 speed with two 3 speed triggers just behind
the brake hoods. Yes I have a neutral - like a car gearbox.

The SRAM (Sachs) 5 speed has a wider range than the SA 5 and needs more
space - 130mm or 135mm OLN I think. The clickbox works well and is
probably the most goof proof design but it you might not feel it fits
with the retro look. These hubs do not have a neutral. There is also an
extra sturdy tandem and carrier bike version at a higher price.

I think Wiggle stocks SRAM hub gears. You might find that there is a
good distributor in Ireland. I have had no problems with my local bike
shop ordering from Fisher (the UK distributor) but some others say it is
difficult.

Velovision did a comparison of the 8 speed SA and the 8 speed Shimano
hub gears recently - you can order single copies from their web site.
There are reports of problems with both - the earliest SA 8s included
some poor ones (these were replaced free) but things may be better now.

One of the problems with hub gears it that many bike shops have little
experience or patience with them. Even one of the "hub gear expert"
shops in London told me all SA 5s are useless but didn't appear to know
the difference between the main types.

--

Martyn Aldis, e-mail [email hidden]
==============================================================================

Martyn Aldis said:

In message <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Old Bike Trader in Kent carries the current SA hubs if you want to go
mail order otherwise you could contact the Netherlands SA office for
information on arrangements for Ireland.

Thanks for that. Lots of interesting parts.

Quoted message said:

If this is a drop bar project, you will have to do some thinking about
controls. There are no controls intended for drops but you can put an
adapter in the end of the bar and fit a twist grip there.

I prefer the old two cable 5 speed with two 3 speed triggers just behind
the brake hoods. Yes I have a neutral - like a car gearbox.

If money is tight I think I'll renovate the old S5-2 and set it up like
that. I bought it at the York Cycle Rally in the mid '80's, attached to
the back of one of the first mountain bikes in Britian. After that I
had it in a Carlton ProAm which took me from Cork to the Giant's
Causeway in three days. The middle ratios are gone now. Before I got
the mountain bike I built a realy wierd setup based on a cheap
five-speed. It had an AW hub with three cogs. Because I couldn't find
a smaller chainwheel the lowest gear was about 36" and the highest was
something like 140". I think I only ever got up into that once. If I
got stuck on the wrong sprocket I could hold it in neutral and turn to
the right one.

Quoted message said:

If I'm to go for a new hub I think it will be the Nexus 8, which isn't
wildly more expensive than the alternatives. I've just checked that it
should fit my old Cannodale touring frame so maybe I'll build that up
as an all-weather bike and look elsewhere for a stripped-down fixie.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for your help
Jenny Brien

---
Do onto pedestrians as you would have motorists do onto you.

In article <[email hidden]>,

PiledHIgher said:

Chalo said:

landotter said:

Is 110 some sort of esoteric standard??

No, it's the established standard for both track bikes and BMX bikes,
as well as everything with a one-speed coaster brake hub. There are
probably more bikes spaced 110mm worldwide than there are bikes spaced
120mm, 126mm, 130mm, and 135mm put together.

Chalo

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

91 mm Low-end front hubs.
96 mm Older front hubs, especially French.
100 mm Modern front hubs.
110 mm Rear older track, coaster brake and other single-speed hubs.
Also, front hubs for Downhill bikes with 20 mm axles.
120 mm Rear 5-speed, Ultra 6, newer track hubs.
126 mm Rear 6- and 7-speed (road).
130 mm Rear 7-speed (MTB) and 8- 9- and 10-speed (road).
135 mm Rear 7- 8- and 9-speed (MTB)
140 mm Rear tandem.
145 mm Rear tandem (newer models.)
150 mm Retro-Choppers, some Downhill and Freeride models.
160 mm Rear tandem (new Santana proposed standard.)

.. . .and none of that contradicts what Chalo said.

--
Ted Bennett