Ordering a Trek 5200

Spider-<< But, for folks who think they are getting more on service, that's fine. I sure as hell
wouldn't pay $80/hour for bike work. Even from Lance's mechanic. >><BR><BR>

Car places here charge about $45-$50..Aircraft wrenches are in the $80-$100 range.

Ya mean the Lance mechanic that couldn't fix his brakes(;-))...

Spider-<< Or maybe not. At a gross margin of 40%, they might just be breaking even. A shop does not
stay in business long if they sell a lot of stuff at a loss. >><BR><BR>

Nope, if they don't collect the margin of 40%(closer to 45% BTW), and they keep the lights on and
pay people, they are losing money. 35% is what is recognized to break even. Any less than that and
you are losing money. A $1500 bikes cost them about $950..selling it at $1200 puts the margin at
about 20%.

Spider- << I get your point, I just don't believe it is anything more than making your life simple.
You may rationalize it in any way you want. >><BR><BR>

I guess this is in the realm of the NG..There is nothing simple about explaining why we don't
discount, or work on tandems or recumbents or what service we offer...or justifying why we sell only
wheels we builkd or whatever. we seem to have to explain something for every BS magazine article,
second or third hand story, etc..not simple.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

Spider-<< But, for folks who think they are getting more on service, that's fine. I sure as hell
wouldn't pay $80/hour for bike work. Even from Lance's mechanic. >><BR><BR>

Car places here charge about $45-$50..Aircraft wrenches are in the $80-$100 range.

Ya mean the Lance mechanic that couldn't fix his brakes(;-))...

Spider-<< Or maybe not. At a gross margin of 40%, they might just be breaking even. A shop does not
stay in business long if they sell a lot of stuff at a loss. >><BR><BR>

Nope, if they don't collect the margin of 40%(closer to 45% BTW), and they keep the lights on and
pay people, they are losing money. 35% is what is recognized to break even. Any less than that and
you are losing money. A $1500 bikes cost them about $950..selling it at $1200 puts the margin at
about 20%.

Spider- << I get your point, I just don't believe it is anything more than making your life simple.
You may rationalize it in any way you want. >><BR><BR>

I guess this is in the realm of the NG..There is nothing simple about explaining why we don't
discount, or work on tandems or recumbents or what service we offer...or justifying why we sell
only wheels we builkd or whatever. we seem to have to explain something for every BS magazine
article, second or third hand story, etc..not simple.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

.....................

Was at the gym yesterday, on a recumbent exerbike, watching a news program about Arnold Conan
Terminator -- his background. It said he could barely speak English at best. Was a bricklayer.
Wasn't making very good money, even though he was doing working hard doing jobs for the well-to-do
in CA. Someone advised him and his fellow masonry pal to bil lthemselves as "Specialty European
Bricklayers." His prices and the demand for his work soon skyrocketed, for the same services.

There's a lesson there, though not applicable to everyone, since not everyone caters to
affluent markets.

From what I remember from the Bicycle magazine article on you, *my impression* was that you are a
European Specialty Cycling shop, and my 'between the lines' impression was also that you were
appealing to those who could and would afford quality special merchandise and service. Like the
Patagonia company does. No need to justify anything, any more than they or the Porsche dealers do.
(My comments here are all just hot air, but from my own experience when I had a business, offering a
superior service for wealthy homeowners, price was not what mattered to them, within limits, of
course. Many people do not buy on price alone, especially those who are well off. They buy quality
and equally important, how you make them FEEL when they do business with you.)

[email hidden] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Spider-<< But, for folks who think they are getting more on service, that's fine. I sure as hell
wouldn't pay $80/hour for bike work. Even from Lance's mechanic. >><BR><BR>

Car places here charge about $45-$50..Aircraft wrenches are in the $80-$100 range.

The bike places around here charge about that for hourly rates. I have not seen $45/hr auto shop
rates since the mid eighties! 🙂

Quoted message said:

Ya mean the Lance mechanic that couldn't fix his brakes(;-))...

Don't remind me!

Quoted message said:

Spider-<< Or maybe not. At a gross margin of 40%, they might just be breaking even. A shop does
not stay in business long if they sell a lot of stuff at a loss. >><BR><BR>

Nope, if they don't collect the margin of 40%(closer to 45% BTW), and they keep the lights on and
pay people, they are losing money. 35% is what is recognized to break even. Any less than that and
you are losing money. A $1500 bikes cost them about $950..selling it at $1200 puts the margin at
about 20%.

I guess then it comes down to *how much* they are losing. But that doesn't apply to your shop
in any case.

Quoted message said:

Spider- << I get your point, I just don't believe it is anything more than making your life
simple. You may rationalize it in any way you want. >><BR><BR>

I guess this is in the realm of the NG..There is nothing simple about explaining why we don't
discount, or work on tandems or recumbents or what service we offer...or justifying why we sell
only wheels we builkd or whatever. we seem to have to explain something for every BS magazine
article, second or third hand story, etc..not simple.

And in return, you avoid the hagglers, the looky-loos, and the nickel-n-dimers. The fact that you
have folks arguing with clearly-displayed store policies reflects the fact that folks are used to
being able to discuss these issues, or that they are just rude. You build your own wheels because
it's easier than troubleshooting someone else's. Even if Jobst himself built the outside wheels. I
understand your point - before I built my own, I broke and bent a lot of machine-built [censored]. Funny,
when you take care and pride in your work, how durable the wheels can be. Like night and day.

Spider

[email hidden] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Spider-<< From what I remember from the Bicycle magazine article on you, *my impression* was that
you are a European Specialty Cycling shop, and my 'between the lines' impression was also that you
were appealing to those who could and would afford quality special merchandise and service. Like
the Patagonia company does. No need to justify anything, >><BR><BR>

If a guy wants to know why we should buold his wheels instead of using the ones outta the box he
saw in a magazine, we can't just boot him out. We tell him our philosophy, we know we are right,
but we still have to battle what he hears from mags and other bike shops.

I agree with what the quoted poster is saying, no need to justify anything, etc. The small problem
is that it is not me that you are quoting, but some other person.

Quoted message said:

spider<< Many people do not buy on price alone, especially those who are well off. They buy
quality and equally important, how you make them FEEL when they do business with you.) >><BR><BR>

Spot on...

I wish I had written that, but did not. The flip side of that coin is that some folks will put up
with some small hassles to save some money. And there are folks like me, who fall somewhere in
between. I know that there are trade-offs to all business dealings, and there ain't no such thing as
a shop with the lowest prices, best selection and most knowledgable staff. I'm happy if I get one of
the three, from my dealings with bicycle retailers in the past. There was one in Seattle, a decade
ago or more, that made me wish I had stopped at a used car sales place after, just so I could
experience competent, understated professionalism, by comparison. :/

Spider

I don't understand the statements people make about bicycle shop selling bicycles is unprofitable. I
don't think bicycles are such a money-loser to sell.

i am certain that car sales are not very profitable. Why? Because we have hundreds of independent
mechanics in business, and they undercut the dealers by a lot, and so its pretty clear that the
maintenance is more profitable than the sales (otherwise we'd have many new car dealers who did
sales-only businesses).

On the other hand, we NEVER have bicycle shops that are maintenance-only. All bicycle shops i have
ever seen also sell bicycles. Therefore, I think that bicycle sales are significantly more
profitable in the bicycle business, then car sales are in the car business.

Does anyone care to argue the point ?

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA