2010 ???

Sandy said:

:-(

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Lot's to talk about and [censored] about. France played better than I ever
expected in that they didn't wear down and carried the play. Going to
be interesting to hear Zidane's story. That's going to be huge all over
everywhere except the US.
Bill C

Bill C a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

:-(

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Lot's to talk about and [censored] about. France played better than I ever
expected in that they didn't wear down and carried the play. Going to
be interesting to hear Zidane's story. That's going to be huge all over
everywhere except the US.
Bill C

It was inexcusable, regardless. He surely went out with a bang.

Sandy said:

Bill C a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

:-(

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Lot's to talk about and [censored] about. France played better than I ever
expected in that they didn't wear down and carried the play. Going to
be interesting to hear Zidane's story. That's going to be huge all over
everywhere except the US.
Bill C

It was inexcusable, regardless. He surely went out with a bang.

Agree completely.
Bill C

Sandy said:

Bill C a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

:-(

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Lot's to talk about and [censored] about. France played better than I ever
expected in that they didn't wear down and carried the play. Going to
be interesting to hear Zidane's story. That's going to be huge all over
everywhere except the US.
Bill C

It was inexcusable, regardless. He surely went out with a bang.

Agree completely.
Bill C

Sandy said:

:-(

Sorry, Sandy, you poor [censored]. I still find it hard to believe that
the WC and Zindane's career ended like that.

What Bill C. said about Zidane's actions not being news in the
US....well, I think it's going to be all over all of the news channels.
They have great footage. Unfortunately most of the people in the US
won't have a clue who Zindane is and this will be the one and only time
they'll be able to associate anything with his name and face. Truly a
horrible event.

R

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

:-(

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

My condolences. But, the Tour will give France much more to smile about.

B. Lafferty said:

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

:-(

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

My condolences. But, the Tour will give France much more to smile about.

I've been hesitant to throw this out there, but...

France has been insisting that they would do well in a cleaner Tour.
This is obviously at least a little cleaner Tour, and France is doing
better.
Not sure they are related but...
Bill C

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

B. Lafferty said:

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

:-(

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

My condolences. But, the Tour will give France much more to smile about.

I've been hesitant to throw this out there, but...

France has been insisting that they would do well in a cleaner Tour.
This is obviously at least a little cleaner Tour, and France is doing
better.
Not sure they are related but...

The mountains will tell us more. I hope it's from being cleaner, too.

Bill C

RicodJour said:

Sandy said:

:-(

Sorry, Sandy, you poor [censored]. I still find it hard to believe that
the WC and Zindane's career ended like that.

What Bill C. said about Zidane's actions not being news in the
US....well, I think it's going to be all over all of the news channels.
They have great footage. Unfortunately most of the people in the US
won't have a clue who Zindane is and this will be the one and only time
they'll be able to associate anything with his name and face. Truly a
horrible event.

Zidane's headbutt all over the US news channels might be
what soccer finally needs to break through as a popular
spectator sport in the US. And if it doesn't, does it really
matter what a bunch of USanians that don't know or care
about soccer associate with Zidane's name? They don't
care, right?

But the good news is, the odds of Zidane making a Pele-like
end-of-career move to the US soccer league probably just
went up.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sandy said:

:-(

The problem, Sandy, is that you care about soccer, or "football", or
whatever you call it in frog-land. Calcio? Futbol? Le football?

No, seriously. While a beautiful game to play and an interesting game to
watch, the great failure of soccer is that scoring is so low, and teams
so evenly matched, that a single game tells you very little about the
relative strength of two teams. In other words, the result of a single
game is frequently a [censored]-shoot.

Here's an example from a comment I saw:

If two basketball teams were matched such that the normal score would be
100-80, the better team will very consistently beat the lesser team. If,
on the other hand, you have two soccer teams where the average score
works out to around 1-0.8 over numerous series, then the victor of any
one match will be much more of a crapshoot.

Hockey and baseball are not basketball, but exist much closer in
decideability to b-ball than to soccer. Those three sports also tend
more often to be decided with multi-game series, though not in the
Olympics or major international tournaments. I don't know what the usual
playoff system is in the elite soccer leagues of the world; Baseball,
hockey, and basketball have all settled on a best-of-seven system (which
resulted, in the last Stanley Cup, in the series going to seven with one
OT game and two 2-1 games. Hooray for statistical ties!

But with the combo of a one-game series, low scoring (leading to lots of
0-0 or 1-1 or 2-2 ties), and the penalty-kick system, a lot of games
will be decided on penalty kicks. And while that is a skill, it's
another place where things look pretty random.

If you look at a penalty shot in hockey, it's a high-skill play for both
shooter and goalie. The shooter gets the puck at center ice, and carries
it from there towards the goal, where they get one chance.

There's a wide diversity of dekes, shots, and moves available to both
players. I think the stats say the play slightly favours the goalie.
It's a crapshoot, but one dependent on skills not at all orthogonal to
the game. Also, NHL playoff games are not decided by shootouts: they
play sudden-death ("golden goal"😉 overtime periods until one team scores.

In soccer, the kicker's optimal strategy is to pick a corner and not
miss the net. The goalie's optimal strategy is to be a good guesser,
since the shot arrives at the net too soon for the goalie to figure out
which way it is going. That makes it annoyingly random.

And while I'm fixing the game, does the offside rule, even in its new
form, really do more good than harm? The offside trap is an incredibly
cheesy-looking defensive move, very much out of character with the
natural flow of the game. I wonder if soccer would be well served by a
blue-line rule like hockey: define an offensive zone, the ball or
ball-carrier has to go into the zone before any other attacker, and then
there's no offsides until the ball leaves the offensive zone again.

ObCycling: you can argue about whether a race was decided by random
chance or not, but the ultimate result is generally pretty decisive. If
you don't make it over the finish line first, it's not like they throw
in a blindfolded tire-change contest to figure out the winner.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

==============
Lot's to talk about and [censored] about. France played better than I ever
expected in that they didn't wear down and carried the play. Going to
be interesting to hear Zidane's story. That's going to be huge all over
everywhere except the US.
Bill C
==============

I disagree; what Zidane did is the sort of thing that will make the news in
the US in a big way. Something Americans can relate to a lot better than a
game that goes on for 2+ hours with a 1-1 score (until finally ending in a
shootout that brought up the score to that of a typical baseball game).

But geez, what a way to leave the game. Team leader loses his head (or
should I say "buries" his head?), gets ejected and possibly loses the game
for his team.

Great game though.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Sandy said:

:-(

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Lot's to talk about and [censored] about. France played better than I ever
expected in that they didn't wear down and carried the play. Going to
be interesting to hear Zidane's story. That's going to be huge all over
everywhere except the US.
Bill C

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

RicodJour said:

Sandy said:

:-(

Sorry, Sandy, you poor [censored]. I still find it hard to believe that
the WC and Zindane's career ended like that.

What Bill C. said about Zidane's actions not being news in the
US....well, I think it's going to be all over all of the news channels.
They have great footage. Unfortunately most of the people in the US
won't have a clue who Zindane is and this will be the one and only time
they'll be able to associate anything with his name and face. Truly a
horrible event.

Horrible event? Zidane did something stupid and got red-carded for it.
It's not like he seriously injured the Italian, though what he did was
still an extraordinary act on a soccer pitch. I don't think it cost les
Bleus the game; shootouts are pretty random any time.

Quoted message said:

Zidane's headbutt all over the US news channels might be
what soccer finally needs to break through as a popular
spectator sport in the US. And if it doesn't, does it really
matter what a bunch of USanians that don't know or care
about soccer associate with Zidane's name? They don't
care, right?

Eh, forgotten in a moment. It will be like Eric Cantona's karate kick.
It has to be mentioned in any biography of the guy, but it won't be why
he's a memorable player.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

in message <[email hidden]>, Ryan

Cousineau (') said:

Quoted message said:

And if it doesn't, does it really
matter what a bunch of USanians that don't know or care
about soccer associate with Zidane's name?  They don't
care, right?

Eh, forgotten in a moment. It will be like Eric Cantona's karate kick.
It has to be mentioned in any biography of the guy, but it won't be why
he's a memorable player.

And Cantona is still worshipped in Manchester, where he's popularly known
as 'Dieu'. Every Manchester United and FCUM game, the Cantona song is
sung with gusto. There isn't any other single past player who is the
object of so much adulation. So this almost certainly isn't going to
cost Zizou much in the long term.

No, I'm not a football fan myself, but my girlfriend was a shareholder of
United before the buy out and is now a shareholder of FCUM.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; killing [afghan|iraqi] civilians is not 'justice'

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
| I disagree; what Zidane did is the sort of thing that will make the news
in
| the US in a big way. Something Americans can relate to a lot better than
a
| game that goes on for 2+ hours with a 1-1 score (until finally ending in a
| shootout that brought up the score to that of a typical baseball game).
|

Actually, penalty shootouts don't change the score. It ended 1-1 with Italy
winning on penalties 5-3.

Quoted message said:

| I disagree; what Zidane did is the sort of thing that will make the news
in
| the US in a big way. Something Americans can relate to a lot better
than
a
| game that goes on for 2+ hours with a 1-1 score (until finally ending in
a
| shootout that brought up the score to that of a typical baseball game).
|

Actually, penalty shootouts don't change the score. It ended 1-1 with
Italy
winning on penalties 5-3.

One more "subtle" thing about soccer, er football, that Americans have a
difficult time understanding. It doesn't make sense that a game would "end"
1-1 and yet have a winner, determined, what, after the game ended?

And why do they say it ended on "penalties" 5-3? Why is it a "penalty" kick
when there's no penalty involved?

That's OK, it was still a great game, and it's not as if they aren't going
to be having their own squabbling over the role of replays potentially
affecting the officiating.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
| I disagree; what Zidane did is the sort of thing that will make the news
in
| the US in a big way. Something Americans can relate to a lot better
than
a
| game that goes on for 2+ hours with a 1-1 score (until finally ending in
a
| shootout that brought up the score to that of a typical baseball game).
|

Actually, penalty shootouts don't change the score. It ended 1-1 with
Italy
winning on penalties 5-3.

To answer your questions:

a)
The game does end 1-1. Penalty shootouts happen after. They are rare
and only occur when a winner must be picked. The idea is that it's
slightly better than picking a winner out of a hat. They are necessary
in the World Cup because you have teams from all over the world. This
can be confusing for Americans who have the "World" Series of baseball.

b)
Let's call it "a shootout from the spot that penalty kicks are usually
taken from". OK now lets shorten that phrase down to "penalty shootout"
and then shorten again to "penalties". You know like Squagals (square
bagels) or a Croissandwich. You can understand that can't you. They
make sense to an American don't they.
🙂

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

| I disagree; what Zidane did is the sort of thing that will make the news
in
| the US in a big way. Something Americans can relate to a lot better
than
a
| game that goes on for 2+ hours with a 1-1 score (until finally endingin
a
| shootout that brought up the score to that of a typical baseball game).
|

Actually, penalty shootouts don't change the score. It ended 1-1 with
Italy
winning on penalties 5-3.

One more "subtle" thing about soccer, er football, that Americans have a
difficult time understanding. It doesn't make sense that a game would "end"
1-1 and yet have a winner, determined, what, after the game ended?

And why do they say it ended on "penalties" 5-3? Why is it a "penalty" kick
when there's no penalty involved?

That's OK, it was still a great game, and it's not as if they aren't going
to be having their own squabbling over the role of replays potentially
affecting the officiating.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
| I disagree; what Zidane did is the sort of thing that will make the news
in
| the US in a big way. Something Americans can relate to a lot better
than
a
| game that goes on for 2+ hours with a 1-1 score (until finally endingin
a
| shootout that brought up the score to that of a typical baseball game).
|

Actually, penalty shootouts don't change the score. It ended 1-1 with
Italy
winning on penalties 5-3.

Sandy said:

Bill C a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

:-(

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Lot's to talk about and [censored] about. France played better than I ever
expected in that they didn't wear down and carried the play. Going to
be interesting to hear Zidane's story. That's going to be huge all over
everywhere except the US.
Bill C

It was inexcusable, regardless. He surely went out with a bang.

Maybe he grew tired of being worshipped and treated as a god, and made
a calculated decision to retire with a slightly more human visage. By
breaking the spell with one ugly head-butt, he leaves his fans slightly
confused, miffed, and in less adoration - potentially giving him more
peace & quiet.

Or maybe he just got really peeved at those f&^*!ng Italians.

"yeahyeah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

Allegedly, according to the BBC this morning, he'd learned that morning
that his mother has a terminal illness, and the Italian said something
to the effect 'I hope your mother dies a really horrible death'.

Wow. If it was that, or even the other interpretation "son of a
terrorist [censored]", I'd say that it sure makes the move more
understandable.
I've had some people say some pretty crappy things to me, perhaps I
should hone my technique:
http://www.slate.com/id/2145424/fr/rss/

Laff@me has been giving free lessons for years.