Wrong Way Lance

B. Lafferty said:

"We've seen a real struggle involving WADA, the UCI, the ministry, the
police and customs," he said.

"Everyone pulled in the same direction. It's good." --Roger Legeay

Intelligently discuss.

If "everyone is doping", they only caught a few. And the police did it,
not the "sporting" orgs. That's because the various controlling bodies
make rules they can't enforce with a simple test. These are very bad
rules because they create a situation where, if you don't get caught,
and maybe even if you do, the rewards are so great that the
"temptation" to cheat can fairly be called a necessity. IOW, the guy
next to you can be expected to have an advantage. The blame is all put
on the riders, when it belongs squarely on the shoulders of the
sanctioning bodies, and the "dope hounds", for creating and managing
the system that exists.

This is grandstanding by police who can make themselves "look good" (to
some) with very little to no risk to themselves. Quite different from
going after real criminals or corrupt power figures who are able and
willing to fight back.

These incidents are a shameful selling of an illusion, with sport and
riders taking real damage, that human competition will ever be "clean".

The legitimate concern is the health of competitors, which as much as
it might be protected, could be looked after in much more intelligent
ways.

Note: Spotted [censored] and all, Virenque is a hero to his public ("A jury
of his peers"😉. Contrast in tone to anything you've seen from The Other
[censored] (Pound). --D-y

Quoted message said:

These are very bad
rules because they create a situation where, if you don't get caught,
and maybe even if you do, the rewards are so great that the
"temptation" to cheat can fairly be called a necessity. IOW, the guy
next to you can be expected to have an advantage.

good summation 🙂

Quoted message said:

The blame is all put
on the riders, when it belongs squarely on the shoulders of the
sanctioning bodies, and the "dope hounds", for creating and managing
the system that exists.

imo, bike racing fans need to take some of the blame themselves. anyone
who pays enough attention should know how it is- continuing to be a fan
after gaining such knowledge carries the responsibility not to react
with such moral outrage when doping scandals erupt. (that's not to say
one can't wish it to be different) although maybe that's just me.

h

"h squared" <[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

imo, bike racing fans need to take some of the blame themselves.

You're a mother, aren't you? ;-)

--
Snippy

in message <jFwpg.116996$771.85561@edtnps89>, Snippy Bobkins

(') said:

"h squared" <[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

imo, bike racing fans need to take some of the blame themselves.

You're a mother, aren't you? ;-)

That doesn't count. She was drunk at the time.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

For office use only. Please do not write or type below this line.

In article <[email hidden]>, h squared

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These are very bad
rules because they create a situation where, if you don't get caught,
and maybe even if you do, the rewards are so great that the
"temptation" to cheat can fairly be called a necessity. IOW, the guy
next to you can be expected to have an advantage.

good summation 🙂

Quoted message said:

The blame is all put
on the riders, when it belongs squarely on the shoulders of the
sanctioning bodies, and the "dope hounds", for creating and managing
the system that exists.

imo, bike racing fans need to take some of the blame themselves. anyone
who pays enough attention should know how it is- continuing to be a fan
after gaining such knowledge carries the responsibility not to react
with such moral outrage when doping scandals erupt. (that's not to say
one can't wish it to be different) although maybe that's just me.

h

Good point. Perhaps a segment fans can be blamed for their general
apathy vis the current state of affairs -- a lackadaisical attitude
toward reform can be rightly interpreted as a tacit endorsement for the
status quo.

But who can argue that, in the main, the responsibility for the
never-ending doping farce ailing the pro-cycling resides with its
riders and administrators?

There exists no organized fan initiative extolling the benefits of
doping in contributing to a more compelling, entertaining race -- a
dubious proposition to be sure! -- nor decrying its damaging effects on
the integrity of the sport and health of its participants. I wonder who
would listen even if there was?

The most vehement anti-doping voices have emerged from within the
sporting realm. The fans don't seem to be clamoring for anything other
than a good show: a completely passive lot, lacking the wherewithal to
influence the proceedings.

Luke

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>, h squared
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

imo, bike racing fans need to take some of the blame themselves. anyone
who pays enough attention should know how it is- continuing to be a fan
after gaining such knowledge carries the responsibility not to react
with such moral outrage when doping scandals erupt. (that's not to say
one can't wish it to be different) although maybe that's just me.

Quoted message said:

Good point. Perhaps a segment fans can be blamed for their general
apathy vis the current state of affairs -- a lackadaisical attitude
toward reform can be rightly interpreted as a tacit endorsement for the
status quo.

that's not what i was saying, but you are free to make the statement
yourself 🙂

h

B. Lafferty said:

"We've seen a real struggle involving WADA, the UCI, the ministry, the
police and customs," he said.

"Everyone pulled in the same direction. It's good." --Roger Legeay

Intelligently discuss.

What does this have to do with LANCE? Other than your
fixation that is. LANCE is not riding this Tour. Can we talk
about the riders who are? Or at least today's dopers rather
than yesterday's dopers.

Even if we talk about Disco Channel cyclists that aren't
retired, your predictions that the Fuentes affair would reveal
the dark secrets of Bruyneel have not yet come to pass.
Maybe this just means Bruyneel is smart enough to get his
blue coolers from somebody with a little more discretion
(see, Bruyneel really is a master tactician).

According to the McQuaid interview on cyclingnews:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jun06/jun30news4

"You must bear in mind also that this isn't just a problem of
cycling. We have got this list from the authorities in Spain
because we forced the issues; pressure came from the UCI
and the French Ministry as well that we wanted this list before
the Tour de France. There are other sports people from other
sports involved this affair as well, and in time their names will
also come out... I have been told that athletics, basketball,
tennis and football are involved in this. Those details will all
emerge over time."

This suggests that actually the UCI and Spanish authorities
are in fact working together - it also provides a possible
answer to the "Why now?" question, assuming McQuaid
is being straightforward. It also suggests information about
other sports might come out eventually. Although I'm sure
the FIFA response would be to make sure any footballers
get named after the World Cup is over and no one is paying
attention.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

"We've seen a real struggle involving WADA, the UCI, the ministry, the
police and customs," he said.

"Everyone pulled in the same direction. It's good." --Roger Legeay

Intelligently discuss.

What does this have to do with LANCE? Other than your
fixation that is. LANCE is not riding this Tour. Can we talk
about the riders who are? Or at least today's dopers rather
than yesterday's dopers.

Here you have a well known DS saying that WADA (Mr. Armstrong's nemesis
organization) along with the UCI and various government agencies are finally
moving in the right direction. And what is Mr. Armstrong's position, other
than hating Pound and WADA? He's staying well under the radar. Flight plan
to Valencia anyone?

Quoted message said:

Even if we talk about Disco Channel cyclists that aren't
retired, your predictions that the Fuentes affair would reveal
the dark secrets of Bruyneel have not yet come to pass.
Maybe this just means Bruyneel is smart enough to get his
blue coolers from somebody with a little more discretion
(see, Bruyneel really is a master tactician).

According to the McQuaid interview on cyclingnews:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jun06/jun30news4

"You must bear in mind also that this isn't just a problem of
cycling. We have got this list from the authorities in Spain
because we forced the issues; pressure came from the UCI
and the French Ministry as well that we wanted this list before
the Tour de France. There are other sports people from other
sports involved this affair as well, and in time their names will
also come out... I have been told that athletics, basketball,
tennis and football are involved in this. Those details will all
emerge over time."

This suggests that actually the UCI and Spanish authorities
are in fact working together - it also provides a possible
answer to the "Why now?" question, assuming McQuaid
is being straightforward. It also suggests information about
other sports might come out eventually. Although I'm sure
the FIFA response would be to make sure any footballers
get named after the World Cup is over and no one is paying
attention.

Luke said:

Quoted message said:

Good point. Perhaps a segment fans can be blamed for their general
apathy vis the current state of affairs -- a lackadaisical attitude
toward reform can be rightly interpreted as a tacit endorsement for the
status quo.

h squared said:

that's not what i was saying, but you are free to make the statement
yourself 🙂

People are quoting you out of context, it must be time for the h^2
political campaign. After all if hillary can do it so can you.

Simon Brooke said:

That doesn't count. She was drunk at the time.

Dumbass,
Of course she was drunk. She's going to be lobbying for livedrunk(tm) in
the senate.