Brake Choice Conundrum

R Brickston said:

I'm having trouble deciding which brakes to use. I'm reassembling a
Trek 520 for semi-loaded touring. Bike is equipped with Ultegra
brifters. There are three sets of brakes in the bin to choose from:

some cheapie Shimano V-Brakes;

a set of Avid Arch Rival V-Brakes;

a set of Avid Shorty 4's.

The rider will weigh in at 225 plus another 25-35 pounds in the
panniers. I've got a set of Travel Agents if I go with the V-Brakes.

I'm thinking the Shorties because they can be used without the Travel
Agents, but I like the stopping power of the V's. Any of these or
perhaps a better choice?

Either V brake unless you like the squeal of the shortys...plus better,
stronger braking for your 275 or so pound package-

R Brickston said:

I'm having trouble deciding which brakes to use. I'm reassembling a
Trek 520 for semi-loaded touring. Bike is equipped with Ultegra
brifters. There are three sets of brakes in the bin to choose from:

some cheapie Shimano V-Brakes;

a set of Avid Arch Rival V-Brakes;

a set of Avid Shorty 4's.

The rider will weigh in at 225 plus another 25-35 pounds in the
panniers. I've got a set of Travel Agents if I go with the V-Brakes.

I'm thinking the Shorties because they can be used without the Travel
Agents, but I like the stopping power of the V's. Any of these or
perhaps a better choice?

We build that sort of bike with standard cantilevers - easy to
install/adjust, easy to service, huge clearances and no special adapters
or exotic small parts. Cheap, too. What's not to like?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I use the Tektro RX5 "mini" linear pulls on my tourer. Their slightly
shorter arms makes it possible to be used with any cantilever pull
compatible brake levers, even aero. Either with or without a Travel
Agent. Considering your weight, plus the weight of any gear you may be
carrying i would definitely use a T.A. with non-canti aero levers.

They are inexpensive, have great stopping power, easily comparable to
more expensive mid range full size linear-pulls with dedicated levers.
http://shop.cycletherapy.ca/ProductInfo~productid~BR7133.html (for
referance)

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:55:36 -0400, [email hidden]

(Chris Z The Wheelman) said:

I use the Tektro RX5 "mini" linear pulls on my tourer. Their slightly
shorter arms makes it possible to be used with any cantilever pull
compatible brake levers, even aero. Either with or without a Trave

I have 2 doubts about this:

1) Doesn't the fact that mini v-brakes have shorter arms mean they're
just about as good as cantilevers, like say, Avid Shorty 4 - which
I've used and liked a lot (apart from not liking adjusting
cantilevers) ?

2) Can't you really adjust normal v-brakes with brake pads close
enough to the rim that you can use them with aero brake levers?
(Unless you're cyclo-crossing in mud and bushes, why do you need a big
clearance between v-brake pads and the rim?)

cheers,
jbr

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:55:36 -0400, [email hidden]

(Chris Z The Wheelman) said:

I use the Tektro RX5 "mini" linear pulls on my tourer. Their slightly
shorter arms makes it possible to be used with any cantilever pull
compatible brake levers, even aero. Either with or without a Travel
Agent. Considering your weight, plus the weight of any gear you may be
carrying i would definitely use a T.A. with non-canti aero levers.

They are inexpensive, have great stopping power, easily comparable to
more expensive mid range full size linear-pulls with dedicated levers.
http://shop.cycletherapy.ca/ProductInfo~productid~BR7133.html (for
referance)

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

I was just looking over my cheapie Shimano V set and was thinking what
if the arms were shorter? Less pull would be needed and even with
less leverage, perhaps they would still be on the plus side over the
canti's. Also they would give the bike a cleaner look. I'm not crazy
about using the Travel Agents so these may be worth a try.

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 20:34:31 GMT, [email hidden] (BigBen)

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:55:36 -0400, [email hidden]

(Chris Z The Wheelman) said:

I use the Tektro RX5 "mini" linear pulls on my tourer. Their slightly
shorter arms makes it possible to be used with any cantilever pull
compatible brake levers, even aero. Either with or without a Trave

I have 2 doubts about this:

1) Doesn't the fact that mini v-brakes have shorter arms mean they're
just about as good as cantilevers, like say, Avid Shorty 4 - which
I've used and liked a lot (apart from not liking adjusting
cantilevers) ?

2) Can't you really adjust normal v-brakes with brake pads close
enough to the rim that you can use them with aero brake levers?
(Unless you're cyclo-crossing in mud and bushes, why do you need a big
clearance between v-brake pads and the rim?)

cheers,
jbr

Even with everything being equal, it would save the extra cable
triangles and the overhead cable end hangers giving the bike a cleaner
look.

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:26:08 GMT, R Brickston

rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ said:

Even with everything being equal, it would save the extra cable
triangles and the overhead cable end hangers giving the bike a cleaner
look.

Well, that answers my 1st question, I with you, and in my opinion,
without an extra pair of hands, Vs are much easier to adjust than
cantis.

However, question 2 remains unanswered: unless you plan on getting mud
and perhaps some flora around your rims, why can't you adjust the pads
them close enough to the rim that you can use common aero brake
levers??

jbr

BigBen said:

However, question 2 remains unanswered: unless you plan on getting mud
and perhaps some flora around your rims, why can't you adjust the pads
them close enough to the rim that you can use common aero brake
levers??

Why? Because the brakes are not infinitely rigid. After the pads make
contact with the rim, there is still squish in the pads, flex in the
posts, play on the brake bosses, stretch in the cable, compression in
the housing, and twist in the brake's arms all working against your
ability to apply as much pressure as you'd like.

This is an easy thing to test for yourself. It sounds like you already
have all the parts you need for such a demonstration.

A lever with inadequate cable throw needs a brake with inadequate
mechanical advantage to work passably-- at the cost of high cable
tension and exaggerated cable-related effects upon braking performance.

There are plenty of good levers that provide long cable throw (and good
brakes with high MA), just not for drop bars. Effective brakes and
comfortable bars will always be there for you when you tire of your
folly, though!

Chalo Colina

BigBen said:

However, question 2 remains unanswered: unless you plan on getting mud
and perhaps some flora around your rims, why can't you adjust the pads
them close enough to the rim that you can use common aero brake
levers??

Why? Because the brakes are not infinitely rigid. After the pads make
contact with the rim, there is still squish in the pads, flex in the
posts, play on the brake bosses, stretch in the cable, compression in
the housing, and twist in the brake's arms all working against your
ability to apply as much pressure as you'd like.

This is an easy thing to test for yourself. It sounds like you already
have all the parts you need for such a demonstration.

A lever with inadequate cable throw needs a brake with inadequate
mechanical advantage to work passably-- at the cost of high cable
tension and exaggerated cable-related effects upon braking performance.

There are plenty of good levers that provide long cable throw (and good
brakes with high MA), just not for drop bars. Effective brakes and
comfortable bars will always be waiting for you when you tire of your
folly, though!

Chalo Colina

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:09:32 GMT, [email hidden] (BigBen)

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:26:08 GMT, R Brickston

rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ said:

Even with everything being equal, it would save the extra cable
triangles and the overhead cable end hangers giving the bike a cleaner
look.

Well, that answers my 1st question, I with you, and in my opinion,
without an extra pair of hands, Vs are much easier to adjust than
cantis.

However, question 2 remains unanswered: unless you plan on getting mud
and perhaps some flora around your rims, why can't you adjust the pads
them close enough to the rim that you can use common aero brake
levers??

jbr

No mud planned. From what I've read about the mini-v's I'll most
likely have to do that anyway to not use the travel agents.

Chalo said:

There are plenty of good levers that provide long cable throw (and good
brakes with high MA), just not for drop bars. Effective brakes and
comfortable bars will always be there for you when you tire of your
folly, though!

Still on the flat bar crusade, eh Chalo? If you don't like drop bars,
that's OK with me. But I don't like being called a fool for preferring them.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)

From: [email hidden] (BigBen)

Quoted message said:

1) Doesn't the fact that mini v-brakes
have shorter arms mean they're just
about as good as cantilevers, like say,
Avid Shorty 4 - which I've used and liked
a lot (apart from not liking adjusting
cantilevers) ?

The shorter reach is to make up for the reduced amount of pull that road
levers provide. As for power, they are at least comparable to canti's as
far as I can tell, but I added a T.A. to increase cable pull even though
technically I don't need it, so the amount of braking power available to
me really depends on how hard I can squeeze the levers. They stop better
for me than any regular canti's I've owned (including Shortys)

Quoted message said:

2) Can't you really adjust normal
v-brakes with brake pads close enough
to the rim that you can use them with
aero brake levers? (Unless you're
cyclo-crossing in mud and bushes, why
do you need a big clearance between
v-brake pads and the rim?)

Brake clearance from pad to rim is a factor of how true you can get your
rim, not the type of brake. Mine are about 1mm or less, because I don't
like a lot of lever travel before the pads make contact. Actually, with
the Travel Agent (T.A.) boosting the cable pull, it's very difficult to
get my levers to even bottom out against the handlebars, especially the
front. And yes, I am using aero levers. Dia Compe makes special ones
with adequate pull for canti/linear pull brakes. Check Loose
Screws/Third Hand.

http://www.thethirdhand.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Brake&sc=Levers%20Complete&tc=&item_id=DC-287V&id=789441927506

Quoted message said:

cheers,
jbr

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

As a PS (or consumer report, if you wish) last weekend I was ridng down
from the Blue Ridge Parkway on US 276 (southbound) in a good Southern
downpour and had no problems with stopping power (yes, I am using salmon
pads).

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net