Broke my Brooks B17N

Mark Heiple said:

I just discovered that my Brooks B-17N saddle is broken. The rear steel
frame, where the leather is riveted, and on the left side outside the
rails cracked all the way through. It must have started cracking a
while ago, because part of the break is rusty.

This kind of surprised me, as I've read all kinds of stories about
people riding Brooks saddles for 20+ years. I've had mine for about 4.

So now I'm thinking of getting a new one. I'm looking at the Team
Professional. Is there any reason to splurge on the Swift? Weight is
irrelevant to me, so as far as I'm concerned the Ti rails is not a
"feature".

One nice feature I liked about the B17 is the "skirt" on the side (or
whatever it's called) helped cover up the seatpost clamp, which is kind
of big (Salsa Shaft). With my old narrow plastic saddle, the inside of
my legs would get rubbed raw on the seatpost clamp. From the pictures
it looks like the Team Professional has the skirt, while the Swift does
not.

My handlebars are about 10 cm below my saddle, which is why I got the
narrow B17 instead of the normal one. Would the Swift be any more
comfortable than the Team Professional?

Thanks.

I have a Swift and a Team Professional. They felt the same when they
were new, but the Swift broke in much faster and now it's much softer
than the Professional - too soft for my tastes. The Professional seems
to be more resillient to water and crash damage, and it's a lot
cheaper. The Swift is much lighter, and people "ooh" and "ahh" at it,
but I prefer the Professional.

By the way, I wasn't comfortable on the Professional until I put
Neatsfoot Oil on it. It softened up just a bit, and it's been great
for the past couple thousand miles. Whether Neatsfoot Oil is
appropriate for leather saddles is often debated here (search the
archives if you care.) I also put Neatsfoot Oil on the Swift at one
point, and I regret it. I think it's the reason the saddle became too
soft.

-Vee

In article <[email hidden]>,

Vee said:

Mark Heiple said:

I just discovered that my Brooks B-17N saddle is broken. The rear steel
frame, where the leather is riveted, and on the left side outside the
rails cracked all the way through. It must have started cracking a
while ago, because part of the break is rusty.

This kind of surprised me, as I've read all kinds of stories about
people riding Brooks saddles for 20+ years. I've had mine for about 4.

So now I'm thinking of getting a new one. I'm looking at the Team
Professional. Is there any reason to splurge on the Swift? Weight is
irrelevant to me, so as far as I'm concerned the Ti rails is not a
"feature".

One nice feature I liked about the B17 is the "skirt" on the side (or
whatever it's called) helped cover up the seatpost clamp, which is kind
of big (Salsa Shaft). With my old narrow plastic saddle, the inside of
my legs would get rubbed raw on the seatpost clamp. From the pictures
it looks like the Team Professional has the skirt, while the Swift does
not.

My handlebars are about 10 cm below my saddle, which is why I got the
narrow B17 instead of the normal one. Would the Swift be any more
comfortable than the Team Professional?

Thanks.

I have a Swift and a Team Professional. They felt the same when they
were new, but the Swift broke in much faster and now it's much softer
than the Professional - too soft for my tastes. The Professional seems
to be more resillient to water and crash damage, and it's a lot
cheaper. The Swift is much lighter, and people "ooh" and "ahh" at it,
but I prefer the Professional.

By the way, I wasn't comfortable on the Professional until I put
Neatsfoot Oil on it. It softened up just a bit, and it's been great
for the past couple thousand miles. Whether Neatsfoot Oil is
appropriate for leather saddles is often debated here (search the
archives if you care.) I also put Neatsfoot Oil on the Swift at one
point, and I regret it. I think it's the reason the saddle became too
soft.

-Vee

I read the debates about using Neatsfoot Oil and other things when I
first got my B17. I only used Proofide on it, and it broke in fairly
quickly. I think it was comfortable within about 50 miles. I've read
the Professional uses thicker leather and can take longer, but my plan
would be to just use the proofide again unless it won't break in.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Mark Heiple said:

I just discovered that my Brooks B-17N saddle is broken. The rear steel
frame, where the leather is riveted, and on the left side outside the
rails cracked all the way through. It must have started cracking a
while ago, because part of the break is rusty.

This kind of surprised me, as I've read all kinds of stories about
people riding Brooks saddles for 20+ years. I've had mine for about 4.

So now I'm thinking of getting a new one. I'm looking at the Team
Professional. Is there any reason to splurge on the Swift? Weight is
irrelevant to me, so as far as I'm concerned the Ti rails is not a
"feature".

One nice feature I liked about the B17 is the "skirt" on the side (or
whatever it's called) helped cover up the seatpost clamp, which is kind
of big (Salsa Shaft). With my old narrow plastic saddle, the inside of
my legs would get rubbed raw on the seatpost clamp. From the pictures
it looks like the Team Professional has the skirt, while the Swift does
not.

My handlebars are about 10 cm below my saddle, which is why I got the
narrow B17 instead of the normal one. Would the Swift be any more
comfortable than the Team Professional?

I happily run the Salsa seat post and Team Professional
saddle. The Swift design is to reduce inner thigh friction
on the skirt of the saddle. For that reason it may be more
comfortable if that friction is a problem on the
Team Professional. But since you ran the B17N without that
complaint I think that the Team Professional will be just
as comfortable as the Swift with the advantage of covering
the seat post clamp.

--
Michael Press

Mark Heiple said:

I just discovered that my Brooks B-17N saddle is broken. The rear steel
frame, where the leather is riveted, and on the left side outside the
rails cracked all the way through. It must have started cracking a
while ago, because part of the break is rusty.

Quoted message said:

This kind of surprised me, as I've read all kinds of stories about
people riding Brooks saddles for 20+ years. I've had mine for about 4.

Brooks claims that their chroming process led to a raft of bad /
failed saddles, and so now they only offer the B-17 with black painted
rails.

If you have chromed rails, then I would contact Brooks or the dealer
who sold you the saddle and they might give you either a replacement
or some kind of a credit towards a new saddle or some other
compensation.

http://www.brookssaddles.com/
http://www.brookssaddles.com/brooksengland.html

Brooks saddles really do last 20+ years, not 4 years.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

All parts of a Brook saddle except the leather can be replaced However
unless you're adept at leather repair and have the tools, I'd see about
a warrantee replacement from Brooks, if you think this is the case.

The Team Pro does have a skirt, but it's also a lot harder out of the
box than the time revered B17.

Try http://www.wallbike.com

(not to be confused with Walmart, who wouldn't know a Brooks saddle if
it were crammed up their [censored])

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

...Also, the Pro is a little narrower in the back, where you're
sit-bones rest.

All this is because a racer, who tends to ride in a more forward
streamlined posiion has less weight on his (her) rump than a more
upright tourist/recreational rider.

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

I'd second this recommendation. I think they have some kind of exchange
policy if you get a Swift and it just doesn't work for you. I don't recall
the details- maybe on their site?

"Chris Z The Wheelman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All parts of a Brook saddle except the leather can be replaced However
unless you're adept at leather repair and have the tools, I'd see about
a warrantee replacement from Brooks, if you think this is the case.

The Team Pro does have a skirt, but it's also a lot harder out of the
box than the time revered B17.

Try http://www.wallbike.com

(not to be confused with Walmart, who wouldn't know a Brooks saddle if
it were crammed up their [censored])

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

Mark Heiple said:

So now I'm thinking of getting a new one. I'm looking at the Team
Professional. Is there any reason to splurge on the Swift? Weight is
irrelevant to me, so as far as I'm concerned the Ti rails is not a
"feature".

Most people pay for the Ti to get lighter weight however I have found
that the saddle has suprisingly more spring to it on sudden unexpected
bumps. I believe that the Ti rails provide much more give than the
steel rails. The Professional is also available in a Ti version if you
want to spend the extra $$$$ for a little less weight and a little more
spring.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:29:15 -0400, Mark Heiple <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I just discovered that my Brooks B-17N saddle is broken. The rear steel
frame, where the leather is riveted, and on the left side outside the
rails cracked all the way through. It must have started cracking a
while ago, because part of the break is rusty.

This kind of surprised me, as I've read all kinds of stories about
people riding Brooks saddles for 20+ years. I've had mine for about 4.

So now I'm thinking of getting a new one. I'm looking at the Team
Professional. Is there any reason to splurge on the Swift? Weight is
irrelevant to me, so as far as I'm concerned the Ti rails is not a
"feature".

One nice feature I liked about the B17 is the "skirt" on the side (or
whatever it's called) helped cover up the seatpost clamp, which is kind
of big (Salsa Shaft). With my old narrow plastic saddle, the inside of
my legs would get rubbed raw on the seatpost clamp. From the pictures
it looks like the Team Professional has the skirt, while the Swift does
not.

My handlebars are about 10 cm below my saddle, which is why I got the
narrow B17 instead of the normal one. Would the Swift be any more
comfortable than the Team Professional?

Thanks.

My B17s never last one year, let alone 20.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

So now I'm thinking of getting a new one. I'm looking at the Team
Professional. Is there any reason to splurge on the Swift? Weight is
irrelevant to me, so as far as I'm concerned the Ti rails is not a
"feature".

Most people pay for the Ti to get lighter weight however I have found
that the saddle has suprisingly more spring to it on sudden unexpected
bumps. I believe that the Ti rails provide much more give than the
steel rails. The Professional is also available in a Ti version if you
want to spend the extra $$$$ for a little less weight and a little more
spring.

that's because the ti rails are constrained to the same thickness, but
have a much lower modulus, hence they are indeed much more "springy".

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 22:18:06 -0400, Donald Gillies <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

I just discovered that my Brooks B-17N saddle is broken. The rear steel
frame, where the leather is riveted, and on the left side outside the
rails cracked all the way through. It must have started cracking a
while ago, because part of the break is rusty.

Quoted message said:

This kind of surprised me, as I've read all kinds of stories about
people riding Brooks saddles for 20+ years. I've had mine for about 4.

Brooks claims that their chroming process led to a raft of bad /
failed saddles, and so now they only offer the B-17 with black painted
rails.

If you have chromed rails, then I would contact Brooks or the dealer
who sold you the saddle and they might give you either a replacement
or some kind of a credit towards a new saddle or some other
compensation.

http://www.brookssaddles.com/
http://www.brookssaddles.com/brooksengland.html

Brooks saddles really do last 20+ years, not 4 years.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

I've had three brooks B17 varieties in three years. They last me less
than one year (less than one riding season in CT) before they become
unrideable. However, since they are the most comfortable saddle I've
ridden, I keep forking out money every year for them.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Donald Gillies said:

Mark Heiple said:

I just discovered that my Brooks B-17N saddle is broken. The rear steel
frame, where the leather is riveted, and on the left side outside the
rails cracked all the way through. It must have started cracking a
while ago, because part of the break is rusty.

Quoted message said:

This kind of surprised me, as I've read all kinds of stories about
people riding Brooks saddles for 20+ years. I've had mine for about 4.

Brooks claims that their chroming process led to a raft of bad /
failed saddles, and so now they only offer the B-17 with black painted
rails.

chrome plating, which is brittle and easily cracks, is well known for
initiating fatigue. that's why old school chromed spokes broke all the
time and why stainless is such an improvement. so yes, black painted
will indeed offer a much improved fatigue life.

Quoted message said:

If you have chromed rails, then I would contact Brooks or the dealer
who sold you the saddle and they might give you either a replacement
or some kind of a credit towards a new saddle or some other
compensation.

http://www.brookssaddles.com/
http://www.brookssaddles.com/brooksengland.html

Brooks saddles really do last 20+ years, not 4 years.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Bob in CT said:

My B17s never last one year, let alone 20.

You should bring your Huffy in out of the weather when you're not
riding it, then.

Chalo

Bob in CT said:

I've had three brooks B17 varieties in three years. They last me less
than one year (less than one riding season in CT) before they become
unrideable.

Amazing. My B17 is in its 33rd year. My Team Pro is in its 17th.

Per Bob in CT:

Quoted message said:

They last me less
than one year (less than one riding season in CT) before they become
unrideable.

What is the failure mode?
--
PeteCresswell

Mark Heiple said:

I read the debates about using Neatsfoot Oil and other things when I
first got my B17. I only used Proofide on it, and it broke in fairly
quickly. I think it was comfortable within about 50 miles. I've read
the Professional uses thicker leather and can take longer, but my plan
would be to just use the proofide again unless it won't break in.

If you're having chafing problems then it might be advantageous to go
with the Swift due to its narrower nose section. Once the Swift has
broken in and swaybacked, its skirts should end up just below the the
rails and clamp. I would only attempt it, though, if you have
sufficiently narrow sit bones and already have some margin for a
narrower rear plate as evidenced by the indentations on your B17N.
Otherwise, the Team Pro is a safer option.

There is also the new Team Pro Ti which gives you the durability and
added flex of the Ti frame with the more substantial Pro leather. It
seems to be only slightly more expensive that the already inflated
Swift pricing (I paid $135 for one three years ago).

In article <[email hidden]>,

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

So now I'm thinking of getting a new one. I'm looking at the Team
Professional. Is there any reason to splurge on the Swift? Weight is
irrelevant to me, so as far as I'm concerned the Ti rails is not a
"feature".

Most people pay for the Ti to get lighter weight however I have found
that the saddle has suprisingly more spring to it on sudden unexpected
bumps. I believe that the Ti rails provide much more give than the
steel rails. The Professional is also available in a Ti version if you
want to spend the extra $$$$ for a little less weight and a little more
spring.

that's because the ti rails are constrained to the same thickness, but
have a much lower modulus, hence they are indeed much more "springy".

It also occurs to me that if the steel B17 frame broke on me, should I
stay away from Ti rails?

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Donald Gillies) said:

Mark Heiple said:

I just discovered that my Brooks B-17N saddle is broken. The rear steel
frame, where the leather is riveted, and on the left side outside the
rails cracked all the way through. It must have started cracking a
while ago, because part of the break is rusty.

Quoted message said:

This kind of surprised me, as I've read all kinds of stories about
people riding Brooks saddles for 20+ years. I've had mine for about 4.

Brooks claims that their chroming process led to a raft of bad /
failed saddles, and so now they only offer the B-17 with black painted
rails.

If you have chromed rails, then I would contact Brooks or the dealer
who sold you the saddle and they might give you either a replacement
or some kind of a credit towards a new saddle or some other
compensation.

http://www.brookssaddles.com/
http://www.brookssaddles.com/brooksengland.html

Brooks saddles really do last 20+ years, not 4 years.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

My B17N has the black painted rails.

Mark said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple wrote:

>So now I'm thinking of getting a new one. I'm looking at the Team
>Professional. Is there any reason to splurge on the Swift? Weight is
>irrelevant to me, so as far as I'm concerned the Ti rails is not a
>"feature".
>

Most people pay for the Ti to get lighter weight however I have found
that the saddle has suprisingly more spring to it on sudden unexpected
bumps. I believe that the Ti rails provide much more give than the
steel rails. The Professional is also available in a Ti version if you
want to spend the extra $$$$ for a little less weight and a little more
spring.

that's because the ti rails are constrained to the same thickness, but
have a much lower modulus, hence they are indeed much more "springy".

It also occurs to me that if the steel B17 frame broke on me, should I
stay away from Ti rails?

I understand that you did not break a rail but rather another portion
of the frame. As mentioned by others this was probably a defect. I
haven't heard of Brooks Ti rails failing but did consider that danger
myself. I weigh 150 so took the chance and bought one. I also
understand that the Brooks rails are solid rather than hollow saddles
weighin 150+ grams less. Has anyone out there had a Brooks Ti rail
fail?