Broken spokes again

maf said:

I need my bike for reliable commuting (16 miles/day) and there is nothing more infuriating than
broken spokes. My LBS told me that replacing spokes is not a skill I should bother acquiring, but
losing the use of my bike for a few days because of broken spokes is a real hassle. I seem to
break spokes quite frequently (every 2 months or so). Should I learn to fix them, buy a spare set
of wheels ? I do fix punctures, so I have some skills. Perhaps spoke tension should be checked
regularly ? I never do and would not know how. Can one buy super spokes that don't break ?

Mike

If you break spokes that often I suggest you get some new wheels built that are up to the job. I
rode 6000 miles in 5 months on a loaded touring bike and never broke a spoke, breakages are not
something you have to live with. Either salvage your hubs and maybe rims, or get complete new
wheels. It is unlikely I'd salvage the rims, it is often cheaper to get ready made wheels rather
than some built to order, it of course depends on your requirements.

maf said:

I need my bike for reliable commuting (16 miles/day) and there is nothing more infuriating than
broken spokes. My LBS told me that replacing spokes is not a skill I should bother acquiring, but
losing the use of my bike for a few days because of broken spokes is a real hassle. I seem to
break spokes quite frequently (every 2 months or so). Should I learn to fix them, buy a spare set
of wheels ? I do fix punctures, so I have some skills. Perhaps spoke tension should be checked
regularly ? I never do and would not know how. Can one buy super spokes that don't break ?

Are you unusually heavy? Do you make a practice of jumping off curbs or riding down steps? If
neither of these things, you need to get your wheels built/fixed by someone else. You should not
break spokes. I can't remember when I last broke one.

Building wheels isn't difficult. Repairing them is if anything slightly more difficult, but still
not hard. If you are a beginner it will take you _a_ _lot_ longer than it takes the guy in the LBS,
but it's only a matter of patience and care. You don't need a fancy truing stand (although if you're
doing a lot of it it helps). Just turn your bike upside down. To check for where it's out of round,
put the wheel into the frame (in its normal place), spin it, and hold a piece of soft chalk or a
soft wax crayon against the fork or chain stay and very slowly advance it until it just touches. You
can check for both side-to-side and up-and-down out of roundness in this way.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; I'd rather live in sybar-space

Can one buy super spokes that don't break ?

No expert but you can get heavier gauge spokes (designed for heavily laden touring bikes).

Paul

maf said:

I seem to break spokes quite frequently (every 2 months or so).

That suggests poorly made wheels to me, that or you weigh too much or ride too hard for the number
of spokes you have.

Quoted message said:

Should I learn to fix them, buy a spare set of wheels ?

Buy a decent set of wheels. Preferably, learn to build wheels. Assuming some mechanical aptitude
(ie, don't try it if you can't change a plug or assemble flat-pack furniture), your first wheel,
though time-consuming, should be at least as good as typical machine-built wheels (and it sounds
like yours are poor ones). Your second wheel should be better than any machine built wheel.

Wheel-building is lots easier with a truing stand, but you can make do without if you want to try
without that expenditure. (I learnt without, bought a stand for my third wheel, I think).

Quoted message said:

punctures, so I have some skills. Perhaps spoke tension should be checked regularly ? I never do
and would not know how. Can one buy super spokes that don't break ?

DT double-butted stainless in my own wheels don't break (well, not in the ten years I've been riding
them, anyway). I tend to put a decent number of them in, though - are we talking about silly wheels
with 8 spokes or something? Road or off-road?

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Personally, I experience broken spokes quite often and don't like riding with a broken spoke.

It cost me £15 for a spoke to be replaced and trued by the LBS. This could work out to being quite costly over the long run. Therefore I decided to invest in a truing stand (£30) and a spoke key (£5).

Initially, it was a frustrating to learn but with a little patience and care, the skill can be developed reasonably quickly. The thing to do is to visualise the process that is going on and then it should be easier. The principles are quite basic.

Make sure you get the right length spokes for the wheel.

If you're vaguely serious about cycling, I recommend learning how to do this.

Good luck.

Assuming that the wheels are strong enough for your weight, you need to stress relieve the spokes.
This stops them breaking. It really does. You can read about it in the cycling FAQ if you want but
I'll tell you how to do it. You should do this to every adjacent pair of spokes. But something like
a large screwdriver handle in the angle just below where they cross and twist the inside one out
against the other with moderate force. This stretches the spokes. Do it at every cross. This is what
good wheelbuilders do as a final act and it stops the spokes breaking, though they all have their
own technique of doing it. You can also try to stretch pairs of spokes with leather gloves, grasping
pairs on both sides, but I've found the screwdriver method better for prevention. Another way is to
put the wheel on the grass and press with your heel on each spoke in turn. This is called stress
relieving and is understood by metallurgists. I don't understand it but it does work.

maf said:

I need my bike for reliable commuting (16 miles/day) and there is nothing more infuriating than
broken spokes. My LBS told me that replacing spokes is not a skill I should bother acquiring,

Bad advice, IMO. The main skill involved is wheel truing - and that's useful to have even if you
still intend to use shops for replacements and any major works. What will happen when you break a
spoke in the middle of a ride and the wheel goes so out of true that it won't go round?

Quoted message said:

but losing the use of my bike for a few days because of broken spokes is a real hassle. I seem to
break spokes quite frequently (every 2 months or so). Should I learn to fix them, buy a spare set
of wheels ?

Get a new wheel built or the existing wheel rebuilt properly with all-new good quality spokes by
someone who knows what they doing. This bike shop obviously doesn't.

Quoted message said:

Can one buy super spokes that don't break ?

...Less likely to break, yes, but normal double butted spokes should do if the wheel is built
properly and has enough spokes for the weight. 32 can be ok, 36 (for rear wheels) is better. DT
Alpine III spokes might be worthwhile if you need extra reliability. Downside to stronger spokes is
extra weight and the better ones are more expensive.

~PB

maf said:

I need my bike for reliable commuting (16 miles/day) and there is nothing more infuriating than
broken spokes. My LBS told me that replacing spokes is not a skill I should bother acquiring,

Perhaps you should suggest to them that its a skill they ought to acquire though. Broken spokes are
the result of poor wheelbuilding in virtually all cases. Tension the wheel correctly and stress
relieve it and you will no longer break spokes unless you have a stupidly low number of spokes in
the wheel. In the circumstances you can either invest in Jobst Brandt's excellent book and learn to
do it properly yourself or find a good wheelbuilder who knows what he is doing - which your LBS
obviously do not. FWIW if you just want to replace them with new, the mail order wheels from Merlin
are cheap and well built in my experience.

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

You do NOT need new spokes if you stress relieve them. I've one bike which I ride to work on and on
which I've toured. It's 10 years old and the same rear spokes are on their third rim. I cannot
remember breaking one. I build my own and stress relieve and currently I weigh 15st.

Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee said:

You do NOT need new spokes if you stress relieve them.

I think it might still be wise to replace them all in this case - where many spokes have broken - as
the rest may be fatigued already nearly to the point of breaking, and are probably plain gauge.
Stress relieving may help a lot but won't work miracles.

Quoted message said:

I've one bike which I ride to work on and on which I've toured. It's 10 years old and the same
rear spokes are on their third rim. I cannot remember breaking one. I build my own and stress
relieve and currently I weigh 15st.

But presumably you have kept the wheel in good condition with good and reasonably even
spoke tension.

~PB

Jobst Brandt says that proper stress relieving will break them if they are about to break. I've
followed his advice and it's very sound.

A lot of broken spokes come down to not having the wheels checked after a couple of hundred from
new/rebuild, after they've settled. Any decent LBS will advise you to bring it back after a week or
so to be re-trued (usually free). Me, I like fiddling with bikes as much as the next oily bugger,
but having a life as well, I've no interested in learning wheel building.

"Rory" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A lot of broken spokes come down to not having the wheels checked after a couple of hundred from
new/rebuild, after they've settled. Any decent LBS will advise you to bring it back after a week
or so to be re-trued (usually free).

Any decent wheel builder will get it right first time. SJSC seem to. I'll assume Merlin do too, as
they do mail order wheels and have a good reputation. Other names will no doubt follow...

(This page has the sort of guarantee I like to see: peterwhitecycles.comwheels.aspOpen ↗)

TBH, if the shop says 'bring it back for a true', I'd go somewhere else. (actually these days I'd
build my own, but that's a different issue).

cheers, clive

Rory said:

A lot of broken spokes come down to not having the wheels checked after a couple of hundred from
new/rebuild, after they've settled. Any decent LBS will advise you to bring it back after a week
or so to be re-trued (usually free).

I run a mile from any shop that suggests I need to bring the wheel back for truing after a few weeks
use. It demonstrates they do not know how to build one properly. Like Garry I'm not the lightest
person around but when I build a wheel I follow Mr Brandt's recipe and thereafter never touch it
unless the wheel gets damaged or the rims wear out. That includes on and off-road bikes with a fair
amount of use.

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

dannyfrankszzz said:

Personally, I experience broken spokes quite often and don't like riding with a broken spoke.

It cost me £15 for a spoke to be replaced and trued by the LBS. This could work out to being
quite costly over the long run. Therefore I decided to invest in a truing stand (£30) and a spoke
key (£5).

Initially, it was a frustrating to learn but with a little patience and care, the skill can be
developed reasonably quickly. The thing to do is to visualise the process that is going on and
then it should be easier. The principles are quite basic.

Why not invest a final £15 on Mr Brandt's book or even use the bike frame instead of a truing stand
and buy the book instead. Saves all that frustrating learning and getting it wrong - stress
relieving is not something you would easily discover by trial and error building, nor is finding the
optimum tension. In fact the fact that you are experiencing broken spokes quite often demonstrates
the trial and error visualisation you have developed is wrong. A properly built wheel does not break
spokes and does not go out of true in normal use.

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

Tony Raven said:

Why not invest a final £15 on Mr Brandt's book or even use the bike frame instead of a truing
stand and buy the book instead. Saves all that frustrating learning and getting it wrong - stress
relieving is not something you would easily discover by trial and error building, nor is finding
the optimum tension.

Personally, I built my first tangent spoked wheels using the Gospel According To Sheldon Brown,
which has the advantage of being freely downloadable from the InterWeb.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Dave Larrington said:

Tony Raven said:

Why not invest a final £15 on Mr Brandt's book or even use the bike frame instead of a truing
stand and buy the book instead. Saves all that frustrating learning and getting it wrong - stress
relieving is not something you would easily discover by trial and error building, nor is finding
the optimum tension.

Personally, I built my first tangent spoked wheels using the Gospel According To Sheldon Brown,
which has the advantage of being freely downloadable from the InterWeb.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Thanks for all the useful advice. By the way, I weigh 82Kg and ride a 12 months-old tourer. Nothing
special, so perhaps that's the trouble. My commute is strictly roads, with potholes and the odd
kerb. I often hear a clang when a spoke goes (only rear wheel), and this usually happens on the
flat, when I'm accelerating. I've ordered Brandt's book. Mike