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Zone Questions...

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
23 September 2003
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3 October 2003
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Dan
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  1. I have some questions about the Zone diet (I am a male, 6'1", 175 lbs, age 35).

    1) Can a male survive on 1500 calories a day after losing all excess weight? If so, I assume the
    metabolism slows down so that not as many calories are needed. Also, recent studies show that
    calorie restriction extends lifespan.

    2) I have read about Metabolic Typing where each individual has a unique metabolism and some are 180
    degrees apart as far as what foods should be eaten. How can the Zone be right if there is some
    truth to Metabolic Typing?

    3) Have there been any formal studies of the Zone diet like there are for the Ornish diet?

    Thx, Dan

  2. x-no-archive: yes

    In article said:


    1) Can a male survive on 1500 calories a day after losing all excess weight? If so, I assume the
    metabolism slows down so that not as many calories are needed. Also, recent studies show that
    calorie restriction extends lifespan.

    It's possible, and depends on where the calories come from, I suppose, but I don't think you could
    be terribly active at that level.

    Quoted message said:


    2) I have read about Metabolic Typing where each individual has a unique metabolism and some are
    180 degrees apart as far as what foods should be eaten. How can the Zone be right if there is
    some truth to Metabolic Typing?

    I doubt the Zone is right for every person. I doubt there is any one way of eating that is best for
    everyone. The Zone may be right for lots of folks. It's certainly healthier than a starchy diet,
    with its emphasis on good fats and lots of veggies.

    Quoted message said:


    3) Have there been any formal studies of the Zone diet like there are for the Ornish diet?

    There have been no formal studies of the Ornish diet, only a plan that includes smoking cessation,
    exercise and meditation. I think they're necessary to overcome the effects of the awful diet,
    personally.

    There have been studies comparing low fat with low carb diets for weight loss, glycemic control,
    glycation reduction and lipid ratios. Lower carb higher fat comes out looking the best as a rule,
    despite all attempts at reinterpretation.

    Here's an article about one study:

    Quoted message said:

    PTSIZE=10>====== excerpt =====


    Blood Glucose Concentration Linked to>Cardiovascular Risk in Nondiabetic Men>
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    WESTPORT,>CT (Reuters Health) Jan 04 - Increased glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c)>concentrations are
    predictive of cardiovascular mortality among all men,>not only those with diabetes, according to a
    report in the
    British>Medical Journal for January 6.

    Dr. Kay-Tee Khaw and colleagues, from>the University of Cambridge School of Clinical Medicine, UK,
    collected>data on all-cause mortality and cardiovascular mortality in 4662 men, 45>to 79 years
    of age, who participated in the Norfolk UK cohort of the>European Prospective Investigation into
    Cancer and Nutrition>(EPIC-Norfolk). At baseline, from 1995 to 1997, HbA1c was measured and>the
    subjects were followed until December 1999.

    As expected, Dr.>Khaw's group found that diabetic men had increased mortality for all>causes,
    cardiovascular disease and ischemic disease. They also noted that>HbA1c concentrations were
    "continuously related to subsequent all-cause,>cardiovascular, and ischemic mortality through the
    whole population." The>lowest mortality rates were associated with HbA1c concentrations below>5%.

    Further, the group noted that a 1% increase in HbA1c was>associated with a 28% increased risk of
    death, which was independent of>age, blood pressure, cholesterol, body mass index and>smoking.

    "Eighteen percent of the population excess mortality risk>associated with a HbA1c concentration of
    5% or more occurred in men with>diabetes, but 82% occurred in men with concentrations of 5% to 6.9%
    (the>majority of the population)," Dr. Khaw and colleagues point>out.

    The researchers propose that an elevated concentrations of>HbA1c is a marker for greater absolute
    risk among all men, and>"preventive treatment with blood pressure- or cholesterol-lowering
    drugs>should be considered in such patients."

    They point out that if>the population of nondiabetic men was able to lower its HbA1c>concentration
    by 0.1%, total mortality could be reduced by 5%, and if the>concentration could be lowered by 0.2%,
    then total mortality could be>reduced by 10% in this population.
    --

    Susan

  3. Dan said:

    I have some questions about the Zone diet (I am a male, 6'1", 175 lbs, age 35).

    1) Can a male survive on 1500 calories a day after losing all excess weight? If so, I assume the
    metabolism slows down so that not as many calories are needed. Also, recent studies show that
    calorie restriction extends lifespan.

    2) I have read about Metabolic Typing where each individual has a unique metabolism and some are
    180 degrees apart as far as what foods should be eaten. How can the Zone be right if there is
    some truth to Metabolic Typing?

    3) Have there been any formal studies of the Zone diet like there are for the Ornish diet?

    Thx, Dan

    Dan..make it 1800 calories as a minimum..you'll be OK. Just be sure you balance protein and
    carb's..leave Potatoes and WHITE Bread alone!! HAMBURGERS are a definite NO NO! ( so are
    Hotdogs) If you need a rundown on how to BALANCE Foods and use supplements, I'd be happy to
    guide you IAW perfect Health methods. My e-mail is above. B-0b1 (ph.D)

  4. Dan <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : I have some questions about the Zone diet (I am a male, 6'1", 175 lbs, age 35).

    : 1) Can a male survive on 1500 calories a day after losing all excess weight? If so, I assume the
    : metabolism slows down so that not as many calories are needed. Also, recent studies show that
    : calorie restriction extends lifespan.

    Reputedly, "the wall" is somewhere down at about 1000 calories.

    If you plan on going low, take special care to ensure you are getting proper levels of nutrients -
    and if possible monitor your health status regularly.

    Some of the folks at calorierestriction.orgcalorierestriction.org have some experience with sustained low
    calorie diets.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

  5. Dan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I have some questions about the Zone diet (I am a male, 6'1", 175 lbs, age 35).

    1) Can a male survive on 1500 calories a day after losing all excess weight? If so, I assume the
    metabolism slows down so that not as many calories are needed. Also, recent studies show that
    calorie restriction extends lifespan.

    2) I have read about Metabolic Typing where each individual has a unique metabolism and some are
    180 degrees apart as far as what foods should be eaten. How can the Zone be right if there is
    some truth to Metabolic Typing?

    Metabolic typing is nonsense. All humans have the same metabolism with the exception of that
    minority with bona-fide glandular disorders and those small populations with some metabolic oddity
    such as lactose intolerance.

    Quoted message said:


    3) Have there been any formal studies of the Zone diet like there are for the Ornish diet?

    Thx, Dan

    Very few. The pharmaceutical companies will not study anything that may find non-pharmaceutical
    resolutions to health problems and the food industry would never study something that will point to
    their refined carbs as the main culprits in todays high obesity and diabetes levels. Since they
    account for about 70% of the scientific research done today, you do the mat.

    TC

  6. tcomeau <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : Dan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    [...]

    :> 2) I have read about Metabolic Typing where each individual has a unique metabolism and some are
    :> 180 degrees apart as far as what foods should be eaten. How can the Zone be right if there is
    :> some truth to Metabolic Typing?

    : Metabolic typing is nonsense. All humans have the same metabolism with the exception of that
    : minority with bona-fide glandular disorders and those small populations with some metabolic oddity
    : such as lactose intolerance.

    That /might/ conceivably be true at birth.

    Subsequently factors such as insulin resistance will come into play.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden]

  7. Tim Tyler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    tcomeau <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : Dan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    [...]

    :> 2) I have read about Metabolic Typing where each individual has a unique metabolism and some
    :> are 180 degrees apart as far as what foods should be eaten. How can the Zone be right if
    :> there is some truth to Metabolic Typing?

    : Metabolic typing is nonsense. All humans have the same metabolism with the exception of that
    : minority with bona-fide glandular disorders and those small populations with some metabolic
    : oddity such as lactose intolerance.

    That /might/ conceivably be true at birth.

    Subsequently factors such as insulin resistance will come into play.

    That falls under glandular or metabolic disorders.

    TC

  8. Quoted message said:

    I have some questions about the Zone diet (I am a male, 6'1", 175 lbs, age 35).

    I do not think you are considered overweight where you need to lose weight. You need to find your
    Ideal Body Weight (IBW).

    Quoted message said:

    1) Can a male survive on 1500 calories a day after losing all excess weight? If so, I assume the
    metabolism slows down so that not as many calories are needed. Also, recent studies show that
    calorie restriction extends lifespan.

    Anyone can "survive" on 1500 calories a day but that doesn't mean it would be healthy for ALL males.
    Again find your IBW. Mortality increases significantly at 20% or more above IBW and 10% or more
    below IBW.

    Quoted message said:

    2) I have read about Metabolic Typing where each individual has a unique metabolism and some are
    180 degrees apart as far as what foods should be eaten. How can the Zone be right if there is
    some truth to Metabolic Typing?

    It is true that not everyone's metabolism are the same. All diets work to some degree for most
    people who follow them. However, the best diet out there to follow is to limit your total daily fat
    intake to 20g (10% of your total calories for a 2000 calories) and make sure you increase your fiber
    intake to at least 30g (eat fruits, veggies, beans etc and maybe add a supplement). Increasing fiber
    is a very important step. People will automatically lose weight and it is the ONLY permanent weight
    loss program that work LONG TERM and is HEALTHY for you unlike the Atkins Diet which is not healthy
    long term.

    Trent

    -- Look and Feel Great! FREE weight loss and anti-aging group. Join now @
    groups.yahoo.comweightloss health

  9. "Trent Duke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BB99B8C0.122C9%tduke00@

    Quoted message said:

    HEALTHY for you unlike the Atkins Diet which is not healthy long term.

    Post studies, please. Fantasy [censored] on this topic is just not good enough.

    Ph.

  10. "Susan " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20030926134310.12631.00001484@mb-

    Quoted message said:


    Especially since the maintenance phases of all the low carb diets look


    pretty

    Quoted message said:

    much like the Zone, with Protein Power and Atkins more tailored to the individual, while the Zone
    takes a cookie cutter approach to one size fits


    all.

    Quoted message said:

    Indeedy.

    In fact, you can pretty much spot someone who knows bollock-all about Atkins from they way they
    refer to 'Atkins' as if it's *one* diet: last time I looked, there were *four* 'Atkins diets'...

    Ph.

  11. Excuse me?

    There are NO studies showing the healthy effects of Atkins Diet long term.

    But there are hundreds of studies showing those who eat very similiar to what the Atkins Diet allows
    i.e. saturated fats, and not what he allows such as fruits cause they contain carbs...are at a much
    higher risk of MANY diseases.

    Trent

    -- Look and Feel Great! FREE weight loss and anti-aging group. Join now @
    groups.yahoo.comweightloss health

    Quoted message said:

    From: "Philippic" <[email hidden]> Organization: Virgin Net Usenet Service Reply-To:
    "Philippic" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:09:30
    +0100 Subject: Re: Zone Questions...

    "Trent Duke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BB99B8C0.122C9%tduke00@

    Quoted message said:

    HEALTHY for you unlike the Atkins Diet which is not healthy long term.

    Post studies, please. Fantasy [censored] on this topic is just not good enough.

    Ph.

  12. Trent Duke said:

    There are NO studies showing the healthy effects of Atkins Diet long term.

    And no studies showing that following the Atkins Diet long term is unhealthy.

    --
    ¤bicker¤ "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion,
    however satisfying and reassuring."
    - Carl Sagan

    People are, of course, welcome to place whatever irrelevant limitations on their ability to enjoy
    something that they wish.

  13. "Trent Duke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Excuse me?

    There are NO studies showing the healthy effects of Atkins Diet long term.

    There are NO studies dealing with Atkins Diet 'long term' AT ALL. So shut your face.

    Quoted message said:


    But there are hundreds of studies showing those who eat very similiar to what the Atkins Diet
    allows i.e. saturated fats, and not what he allows


    such

    Quoted message said:

    as fruits cause they contain carbs...are at a much higher risk of MANY diseases.

    More [censored] - and *illiterate [censored]* at that.

    Stop spreading lies and propaganda and read the actual literature, such as it is. Learn to look for
    what it doesn't tell you, and note what it didn't control for. See how the average pot-boiler study
    sets itself up to find what it wanted to find. And look for all those 'literature reviews' which
    manage to mis-summarize the studies they supposedly examine. At that point you can come back and
    tell us about 'saturated fats' and 'carbs'; so far, however, you are merely another Usenet
    [censored]-spreader.

    Ph.

  14. Trent Duke said:

    Excuse me?

    There are NO studies showing the healthy effects of Atkins Diet long term.

    But there are hundreds of studies showing those who eat very similiar to what the Atkins Diet
    allows i.e. saturated fats, and not what he allows such as fruits cause they contain carbs...are at
    a much higher risk of MANY diseases.

    But it's been shown that all these studies are not relevant since carb is not controlled or even
    accounted for. A recent 6-month study by Duke university showed that cholesterol levels improved on
    Atkins which is not what one expects by making inferences from saturated fat studies. No one really
    knows the long term effects of the Atkins Diet until long term studies are done.

    --
    Marcio Watanabe

  15. I think your attitude is totally uncalled for. I am not spreading any "propaganda" or "[censored]" you
    so dearly claim.

    If you think eating fried chicken, bacon, big macs without the bread or whatever other fattening
    foods are good for you long term...

    You eat your heart away, okay?

    Trent

    -- Look and Feel Great! FREE weight loss and anti-aging group. Join now @
    groups.yahoo.comweightloss health

    Quoted message said:

    From: "Philippic" <[email hidden]> Organization: Virgin Net Usenet Service Reply-To:
    "Philippic" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:51:34
    +0100 Subject: Re: Zone Questions...

    "Trent Duke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Excuse me?

    There are NO studies showing the healthy effects of Atkins Diet long term.

    There are NO studies dealing with Atkins Diet 'long term' AT ALL. So shut your face.

    Quoted message said:


    But there are hundreds of studies showing those who eat very similiar to what the Atkins Diet
    allows i.e. saturated fats, and not what he allows


    such

    Quoted message said:

    as fruits cause they contain carbs...are at a much higher risk of MANY diseases.

    More [censored] - and *illiterate [censored]* at that.

    Stop spreading lies and propaganda and read the actual literature, such as it is. Learn to look
    for what it doesn't tell you, and note what it didn't control for. See how the average pot-boiler
    study sets itself up to find what it wanted to find. And look for all those 'literature reviews'
    which manage to mis-summarize the studies they supposedly examine. At that point you can come back
    and tell us about 'saturated fats' and 'carbs'; so far, however, you are merely another Usenet
    [censored]-spreader.

    Ph.

  16. Doesn't anyone else find it funny that Atkins or any else who are Atkin evangelists haven't done one
    single long term study past a few months or a year considering Atkins diet has been around for over
    30 years and low carb dieting since the 50s?

    Could it be that they are scared of the long term results or that maybe people just can't stand to
    be on such restrictive carb diet that long?

    I read that even Atkins himself was still overweight when compared to his IBW.

    Anyhoo...

    There is NO quick fix to dieting. I am a FIRM believer that you are what you eat. You do NOT have to
    cut out most carbs from your eating but limiting your junk carbs (sodas, juices, white bread) such
    as the "simples" is a good thing. If you wanna eat more protein, choose lean meats such has tuna,
    turkey, baked chicken breasts... not steak, pork, fried chicken or bacon every day. You are only
    being told what you wanna hear, not necessarily what you need to hear.

    Limit your fat intake from 60g recommended to 20g. That is 360 (40g x 9) less calories a day, 2520 a
    week or 131,400 a year. You are gonna lose weight. It's just not important to reduce your fat
    calories, you MUST increase your fiber intake to at least 30g day. You can get more info and the
    benefits of this @ my.webmd.com60634.htm{5FE84E90-
    BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

    Get ACTIVE.

    I do respect other opinions but getting nasty and mean about this subject as one person has is
    totally uncalled for.

    I follow the above plan and I am not overweight and have a six pack 🙂

    Trent

    -- Look and Feel Great! FREE weight loss and anti-aging group. Join now @
    groups.yahoo.comweightloss health

    Quoted message said:

    From: Marcio Watanabe <[email hidden]> Organization: Computing Dimensions Reply-To:
    [email hidden] Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:56:20 GMT Subject: Re:
    Zone Questions...

    Trent Duke said:

    Excuse me?

    There are NO studies showing the healthy effects of Atkins Diet long term.

    But there are hundreds of studies showing those who eat very similiar to what the Atkins Diet
    allows i.e. saturated fats, and not what he allows such as fruits cause they contain carbs...are
    at a much higher risk of MANY diseases.

    But it's been shown that all these studies are not relevant since carb is not controlled or even
    accounted for. A recent 6-month study by Duke university showed that cholesterol levels improved
    on Atkins which is not what one expects by making inferences from saturated fat studies. No one
    really knows the long term effects of the Atkins Diet until long term studies are done.

    --
    Marcio Watanabe

  17. jmk said:
    Susan said:

    x-no-archive: yes

    In article said:

    Excuse me?

    There are NO studies showing the healthy effects of Atkins Diet long term.

    Most diet studies aren't very long term,

    Which is why they fail in the long run. You need to change your way of eating to succeed, not go
    on a short term diet to loose weight and then go back to your old way of eating -- which is waht
    led to the problem in the first place.

    When ADKINS DIED..his blood vessels HAD NO cholesterol plaques at all! I find this
    interesting!! B-0b1

  18. Trent Duke said:

    I think your attitude is totally uncalled for. I am not spreading any "propaganda" or "[censored]"
    you so dearly claim.

    If you think eating fried chicken, bacon, big macs without the bread or whatever other fattening
    foods are good for you long term...

    You eat your heart away, okay?

    Trent

    -- Look and Feel Great! FREE weight loss and anti-aging group. Join now @
    groups.yahoo.comweightloss health

    Quoted message said:

    From: "Philippic" <[email hidden]> Organization: Virgin Net Usenet Service Reply-To:
    "Philippic" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003
    21:51:34 +0100 Subject: Re: Zone Questions...

    "Trent Duke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Excuse me?

    There are NO studies showing the healthy effects of Atkins Diet long term.

    There are NO studies dealing with Atkins Diet 'long term' AT ALL. So shut your face.

    Quoted message said:


    But there are hundreds of studies showing those who eat very similiar to what the Atkins Diet
    allows i.e. saturated fats, and not what he allows


    such

    Quoted message said:

    as fruits cause they contain carbs...are at a much higher risk of MANY diseases.

    More [censored] - and *illiterate [censored]* at that.

    Stop spreading lies and propaganda and read the actual literature, such as it is. Learn to look
    for what it doesn't tell you, and note what it didn't control for. See how the average
    pot-boiler study sets itself up to find what it wanted to find. And look for all those
    'literature reviews' which manage to mis-summarize the studies they supposedly examine. At that
    point you can come back and tell us about 'saturated fats' and 'carbs'; so far, however, you are
    merely another Usenet [censored]-spreader.

    Ph.

    I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT ADKINS WAS AN EXTREMIST


    BUT,. > BUT results do NOT lie. BALANCE is BETTER as I feel FAT is a NO NO! > FAT is NOT
    necessarily needed..but my daughter has the opposite view. > She used CHEESE as her "FAT" not
    realizing that CHEESE is whole
    MILK > and a BALANCE between Milk fat
    ( cream) and and Protein milk
    in a definite > ratio,
    depending on the TYPE of COW.
    FADS come and GO and ADKINS
    is > definitely GONE...death is the
    UNIVERSAL "Equalizer" in any
    event!
    I .> can lose weight on a BULK
    diet more easily than ANY
    other "FAD". LOL! > B0b1

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    balance.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    without the cream

    Quoted message said:
  19. Trent Duke said:

    Doesn't anyone else find it funny that Atkins or any else who are Atkin evangelists haven't done
    one single long term study past a few months or a year considering Atkins diet has been around for
    over 30 years and low carb dieting since the 50s?

    Could it be that they are scared of the long term results or that maybe people just can't stand to
    be on such restrictive carb diet that long?

    I read that even Atkins himself was still overweight when compared to his IBW.

    Anyhoo...

    There is NO quick fix to dieting. I am a FIRM believer that you are what you eat. You do NOT have
    to cut out most carbs from your eating but limiting your junk carbs (sodas, juices, white bread)
    such as the "simples" is a good thing. If you wanna eat more protein, choose lean meats such has
    tuna, turkey, baked chicken breasts... not steak, pork, fried chicken or bacon every day. You are
    only being told what you wanna hear, not necessarily what you need to hear.

    Limit your fat intake from 60g recommended to 20g. That is 360 (40g x 9) less calories a day, 2520
    a week or 131,400 a year. You are gonna lose weight. It's just not important to reduce your fat
    calories, you MUST increase your fiber intake to at least 30g day. You can get more info and the
    benefits of this @ my.webmd.com60634.htm{5FE84E90-
    BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

    Get ACTIVE.

    TRENT..your PHRASE: "YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT" is displayed loudly and
    clearly on my BIZ cards..LOL! "Aint it the TRUTH"?? LOL! B-0b1

    Quoted message said:

    I do respect other opinions but getting nasty and mean about this subject as one person has is
    totally uncalled for.

    I follow the above plan and I am not overweight and have a six pack 🙂

    Trent

    -- Look and Feel Great! FREE weight loss and anti-aging group. Join now @
    groups.yahoo.comweightloss health

    Quoted message said:

    From: Marcio Watanabe <[email hidden]> Organization: Computing Dimensions Reply-To:
    [email hidden] Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:56:20 GMT Subject: Re:
    Zone Questions...

    Trent Duke said:

    Excuse me?

    There are NO studies showing the healthy effects of Atkins Diet long term.

    But there are hundreds of studies showing those who eat very similiar to what the Atkins Diet
    allows i.e. saturated fats, and not what he allows such as fruits cause they contain
    carbs...are at a much higher risk of MANY diseases.

    But it's been shown that all these studies are not relevant since carb is not controlled or even
    accounted for. A recent 6-month study by Duke university showed that cholesterol levels improved
    on Atkins which is not what one expects by making inferences from saturated fat studies. No one
    really knows the long term effects of the Atkins Diet until long term studies are done.

    --
    Marcio Watanabe

  20. Trent Duke said:

    Doesn't anyone else find it funny that Atkins or any else who are Atkin evangelists haven't done
    one single long term study past a few months or a year considering Atkins diet has been around for
    over 30 years and low carb dieting since the 50s?

    Have you ever heard of the term "independent" study? If Atkins himself had done a long term study,
    would it be taken seriously?

    It's also documented that researchers who wanted to do studies on Atkins were denied funding by the
    government.

    Fact is, at least until the 5-year study from the NIH is done, no one knows one way or the other.
    The ones who claim to know do so on a belief basis, not scientific. What is funny is people trying
    to justify their belief using scientific explanations when in fact there is no solid evidence one
    way or the other. This goes for the pro-Atkins and the anti-Atkins crowd (notice how you use the
    word "BELIEVER" yourself).

    --
    Marcio Watanabe

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