rethinking conventional muni wheelsize

i was just thinking about a trend in the mountain bike industry towards
29ers, and how a former niche market is becoming more and more common
as riders try 29" wheeled mtbs and become adicted to the benefits: more
momentum, better rolling over obstacles, and nice turning
characteristics

this led me to think, why does EVERYONE recomend 24 (sometimes 26) for
technical muniing. wouldn't a 29, as well as being more efficient on
long rides, roll over things more easily?
unless it was on a double-black-diamond run at northstar, riding over
incredibly steep, rocky sections, i think a 29 would be better than a
24.

thoughts?

-colin

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not enough torque in either direction
to high off the ground
not wide enough tires.

but yeah, for someone with balls and strong leggs it's a good idea

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not enough torque in either direction
to high off the ground
not wide enough tires.

but yeah, for someone with balls and strong leggs it's a good idea

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The Catboy said:

This one time i was at that place doing stuff and then i did something
and I was like "Pshawww" but then I forgot.

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I have ridden a 29er, but never had a chance to do muni, but I found it
harder to turn on of the bigger wheels then turning a 20 or 24, maybe
if I practiced more on a 29er I would be able to turn just as good as I
can with a 20 or the 24, so maybe turning would be harder on a 29 Muni,
but I havent tried it yet.

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I have ridden a 29er, but never had a chance to do muni, but I found it
harder to turn on of the bigger wheels then turning a 20 or 24, maybe
if I practiced more on a 29er I would be able to turn just as good as I
can with a 20 or the 24, so maybe turning would be harder on a 29 Muni,
but I havent tried it yet.

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i just think that it is easier to control a 24" or 26" unicycle. a 29"
will also be higher up and not as much torque, so more pressure on your
legs.

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i just think that it is easier to control a 24" or 26" unicycle. a 29"
will also be higher up and not as much torque, so more pressure on your
legs.

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a 29"er would also kill alot of pedal smacks you get with 24"s

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a 29"er would also kill alot of pedal smacks you get with 24"s

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I ride a geared 29er and a 26 as my munis.

The 29er is cool for singletrack and good for some surprisingly
technical stuff, and a bit faster because it's lighter. However, a
26x2.6 has pretty much the same tyre diameter, is much better at
rolling over stuff than the 29"x2.1" tyre, better for hopping, better
in mud, and not that much slower.

On the Dartmoor muni weekend, there were a bunch of 29ers, and they
weren't riding much less technical stuff than everyone else on 26"/24",
some of them rode stuff no-one else managed on the smaller wheels,
although that was just because they're better riders, not because of
the wheel size. Speed wise, there wasn't much between the 26 and 29.

Everyone recommends 24" because it's what they've got, because it's
what KH sells. 29" is a weird size whereas 26"x2.6" has most of the
advantages of 29", without the disadvantages of tyre limitations.

Joe

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joemarshall said:

Everyone recommends 24" because it's what they've got, because it's what
KH sells.

To be fair on the 24, I think we're looking at it as people who ride
mostly cross-country, albeit pretty rough sometimes. I can see the
point that a smaller wheel has advantages for really extreme nutter
base-jumping muni, being slightly stronger and having more torque for
really steep stuff or landing drops on a slope. For anything less mad,
a slightly larger-diameter narrower wheel is plenty strong enough and
has the advantage of being slightly faster. My 26x3" is a good
all-rounder for me - nice fat tyre so I can bounce it off rocks without
worrying about pranging the rim, and big enough to give a decent top
speed (as long as I don't fall off🙄 ). The lighter weight of
a 29er or smaller-tyred 26" would be nice on climbs, but would take
more concentration on the rocks.

Rob

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rob.northcott said:

To be fair on the 24, I think we're looking at it as people who ride
mostly cross-country, albeit pretty rough sometimes. I can see the
point that a smaller wheel has advantages for really extreme nutter
base-jumping muni, being slightly stronger and having more torque for
really steep stuff or landing drops on a slope.

Yep, I know that's true for a small minority of riders. I still think
that 90% of muni owners, whilst they may think they're super-hardcore
freeriders and need all that kit for what they ride, actually ride what
would to a bike rider be at most slightly technical cross country
riding. I know I've been on 'hardcore' rides that have been easy xc,
and have run rides that were (okay quite technical) xc, and had
complaints from people with all the pads and brakes and super-fat tyres
etc. that it was too hard, and I'm not a fantastic rider by any means.

That's also why no-one bought the KH xc, because unicyclists in
particular have this odd idea that xc means riding flat fireroads, so
that unicycle can't be any good.

I guess it's a bit like where I used to ride, people suddenly needed
'freeride' bikes to ride trails that people have been riding for years
on carbon fibre cross country bikes. It's definately easier to start
riding harder trails on an overbuilt freeride bike, but once you get
better, you're limited as to how fast you can go compared to the person
riding the more cross country setup.

Joe

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I kno that Brian rides a Coker for muni and he loves it

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Actually, I think you gain torque as you increase wheel size and
increase the crank length proportionately. It would probably mean 180s
or 185s or something, though, which gets uncomfortable on the knees. I
have 175s on my Guni, and I don't think I'd like to go any higher than
that for anything. Not to mention the cranks are more likely to bend or
break at that length.

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Quoted message said:

unicyclists in particular have this odd idea that xc means riding flat
fireroads

Yes, I've noticed that too.

Whilst it might be a part of cross-country muni-ing, riding flat fire
roads is really a lot like riding any flat road!

The fun stuff (for me) in XC is whizzing over lumpy terrain, going
quickly but having to concentrate to react quickly and smoothly to the
irregular surface. And my experience in this is all from a 29er
perspective.

--
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joemarshall said:

That's also why no-one bought the KH xc

Ahem! I bought one 🙂 but then again I'm such a wimp that I couldn't be
called a muni rider.

joemarshall said:

unicyclists in particular have this odd idea that xc means riding flat
fireroads

mark williamson said:

Yes, I've noticed that too.

Whilst it might be a part of cross-country muni-ing, riding flat fire
roads is really a lot like riding any flat road!

The fun stuff (for me) in XC is whizzing over lumpy terrain, going
quickly but having to concentrate to react quickly and smoothly to the
irregular surface

Riding flat fireroads are a lot like any flat road, but all not
fireroads are flat (unless I've got the wrong definition of fireroad).

mark williamson's fun aspect of XC riding described above falls into my
definition of XC. Most of the tracks that I ride are anything but flat,
having tree roots and loose stones all over the place. They would never
be classed as "technical riding" by experienced or hardcore riders, but
in my eyes that's when the terrain turns from XC to "real muni".

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MISNOMER:
24" MUnis have 24" wheels.

Got to get that one out of the way first. When people recommend 24" as
a wheel size for MUni, they generally mean *rim size.* The tire is
around 26". So this thread is really about the difference between 26"
and 28/29" wheels. Not that big a difference.

I have a 29" that does double duty as a road machine (with Big Apple
tire) and a MUni. But I had two major blowouts using it as a MUni, so I
was starting to doubt the whole idea of using 29" on technical rides. I
already knew it was great for easy-to-medium rides. But on further
examination, I think it's just that my rim was too narrow. So I'm going
to put a wider rim on there and see how it goes on some more pointy
rocks (that's what got me both times).

The 29" is not too high. What am I, an inch and a half higher? It's
definitely not too heavy, as my 24" MUni is a Wilder with Gazzalodi
tire and Sun Doublewide rim. That's definitely heavier (but bombproof).
Torque? Yes it's different, but entirely manageable. I have a pair of
160mm cranks I was using when in MUni mode.

In conclusion, my thought is that a 29" wheel (700c with fat tire) will
be great for most trails, as long as it's not too weak or skinny. When
the riding gets into the higher percentiles of technical, a smaller,
ligher, more maneuverable wheel will have an edge. So *if* your 24"
wheel is lighter and more maneuverable, it will probably work better
there.

But if you have *my* two MUnis described above, the smaller one isn't
any lighter. It is, however, indestructable, so I'll pilot it into
places I won't take my 29er, and not fear for the hardware (just me).

I think 29ers will become more popular for MUni as wider rims and more
tire choices become available. They are especially good for rolling,
non-technical rides. Perfect for the 'Flume Trail'
(http://tinyurl.com/nemtp) at Lake Tahoe, for instance...

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A 29er would lower hopping height considerably.

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The wheel diameter and crank length are the nearest we have to gears
(unless we spend a fortune on a geared hub). My car has five forward
gears. My old tandem had 12 or 18. A uni has one.

It follows that it is unlikley that any one uni is going to be
inherently better in all circumstances. I bought a KH24 on
recommendation/consensus opinion. It's light-ish, manoeuvreable,
capable - and slow. Most of the people on the Dartmoor weekend had
bigger wheels, and I suffered on the easy sections trying to keep up.
On the other hand, young Tom was on a 20 and blew me away by relying on
courage, skill and resilience.

The cliché is "horses for courses", but I can't think of a better
expression. A 29er would be a go anywhere machine except for steep
hills or very tight nadgery stuff. A 24 is a go anywhere but quite
slowly machine. Is a 26x3 the best of both worlds or the worst?
Depends.

We are talking about preference, fashion and availability. I sometimes
ride my 700c x 28mm on 110s or 125s on stuff that some people wouldn't
try on a bicycle.

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