Best braised beef

cybercat said:

Lately when we are in the mood for beef I've bought Sirloin Tip Roast,
browned it well (quickly, on high, in a bit of olive oil) on all sides in a
deep pot, added two cups of water, pepper and a little rosemary, covered it
and brought it down to a very slow simmer, and after two hours added
vegetables and cooked one more hour.

The result is exquisitely tender meat that falls apart and is not dry at
all, and a lovely broth (au jus, really.) (Before we eat it I skim all the
fat I can, chill it, and remove the rest.)

Tonight I made it with just baby carrots and served it with hot crusty
homemade bread and green salad. This is the best cut of beef I have found
for this cooking method.

Try beef short ribs, or flanken, or 7-bone chuck roast... best braising
beef contains bones.

With the carrots don't forget the onions, garlic, potatoes, and
'shrooms. I don't like rosemary with beef... use parsley and marjoram.

Sheldon

"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Try beef short ribs, or flanken, or 7-bone chuck roast... best braising
beef contains bones.

I wondered about this. Does this mean that the broth will gel when
cold, like with chicken stock?

Quoted message said:

With the carrots don't forget the onions, garlic, potatoes, and
'shrooms. I don't like rosemary with beef... use parsley and marjoram.

Next time. I know I would like onions, browned and still plump, in there.

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cybercat said:

Lately when we are in the mood for beef I've bought Sirloin Tip Roast,
browned it well (quickly, on high, in a bit of olive oil) on all sides in a
deep pot, added two cups of water, pepper and a little rosemary, covered it
and brought it down to a very slow simmer, and after two hours added
vegetables and cooked one more hour.

The result is exquisitely tender meat that falls apart and is not dry at
all, and a lovely broth (au jus, really.) (Before we eat it I skim all the
fat I can, chill it, and remove the rest.)

Tonight I made it with just baby carrots and served it with hot crusty
homemade bread and green salad. This is the best cut of beef I have found
for this cooking method.

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IMO the best beef for braising, no contest, is beef cheek. It has a rich
flavour comparable to oxtail, and there is no fat at all.

Christine

cybercat said:

"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Try beef short ribs, or flanken, or 7-bone chuck roast... best braising
beef contains bones.

I wondered about this. Does this mean that the broth will gel when
cold, like with chicken stock?

Quoted message said:

With the carrots don't forget the onions, garlic, potatoes, and
'shrooms. I don't like rosemary with beef... use parsley and marjoram.

Next time. I know I would like onions, browned and still plump, in there.

I make a 7 bone chuck often, but with a sort of Moroccan twist.
I brown the meat, then add lots of chopped onion, some cilantro and
parsley, a diced (peeled and seeded if you like) tomato, chopped
garlic, sharp paprika and just a bit of dried ginger and salt and
pepper.

The onions tend to give off a lot of liquid, so it is not necessary to
add too much water- maybe a cup depending on the size of the pan and
the meat--it does not need to be submerged in water.

I let it simmer on very low for 2-3 hours (covered) and then at the end
add some green olives and peas or artichoke hearts (fresh or frozen not
canned). I usually serve roasted potatoes on the side, but sometimes I
throw potato wedges in with the meat. There is very little liquid in
the pan when it is done. There is some-but not a lot. Enough to dip
bread in. My husband hates it when I put too much water in the pot.
He says "It's not soup!!" If I do put too much water in--I take the
lid of at the end and crank the heat to let some of it cook off.

We eat it Moroccan style using bread to scoop and eat.

I don't end up with a lot of "gel" in the leftovers.

It does tend to be very greasy, but it is delicious.

Tracy

Tracy said:

I make a 7 bone chuck often, but with a sort of Moroccan twist.
I brown the meat, then add lots of chopped onion, some cilantro and
parsley, a diced (peeled and seeded if you like) tomato, chopped
garlic, sharp paprika and just a bit of dried ginger and salt and
pepper.

Bone-in chuck roasts were a fixture of my youth, but somewhere along
the line the supermarkets started selling only boneless ones. In fact,
about the only beef cuts still sold with bones in them are T-Bone and
Porterhouse steaks, and rib roasts. The round steaks, sirloins, chucks
are all boneless these days.

Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

Old Mother Ashby said:

IMO the best beef for braising, no contest, is beef cheek. It has a rich
flavour comparable to oxtail, and there is no fat at all.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but cheek meat is *very*
fatty. And there's no way to trim the fat completely out of it.

-sw

Steve Wertz said:

Old Mother Ashby said:

IMO the best beef for braising, no contest, is beef cheek. It has a rich
flavour comparable to oxtail, and there is no fat at all.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but cheek meat is *very*
fatty. And there's no way to trim the fat completely out of it.

Good braising meats are typicslly fatty, but it's unnecessary to
trim... that's what skimmers are for. Brisket is probably the king of
braising meats.

Sheldon

Steve Wertz said:

Old Mother Ashby said:

IMO the best beef for braising, no contest, is beef cheek. It has a rich
flavour comparable to oxtail, and there is no fat at all.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but cheek meat is *very*
fatty. And there's no way to trim the fat completely out of it.

-sw

We must be talking about different cuts. Either that or Texan cattle
don't do much chewing! Or maybe it's something to do with the grass
fed/grain fed thing. I swear to you I've never seen a piece of beef
cheek with any fat on it - there is a layer of tough fibre but that
should be trimmed off by the butcher. Oxtail, on the other hand, has
obvious fat which is impossible to completely trim. You have to remove
it from the cooked dish after it's cooled down.

The meat I'm talking about is very, I suppose you would call it sinewy.
It takes a bit of effort to cut it up raw if you don't want to cook it
in the piece, but the gristle all melts down in the cooking and the
liquid sets into a pretty solid jelly.

Christine

Old Mother Ashby said:

The meat I'm talking about is very, I suppose you would call it sinewy.
It takes a bit of effort to cut it up raw if you don't want to cook it
in the piece, but the gristle all melts down in the cooking and the
liquid sets into a pretty solid jelly.

That collagen is mostly fat.

-sw

Steve Wertz said:

Old Mother Ashby said:

The meat I'm talking about is very, I suppose you would call it sinewy.
It takes a bit of effort to cut it up raw if you don't want to cook it
in the piece, but the gristle all melts down in the cooking and the
liquid sets into a pretty solid jelly.

That collagen is mostly fat.

-sw

Thank you, collagen is the word I was looking for - I think that, as so
often happens with rfc, we have a semantic problem. Collagen and fat are
both forms of connective tissue, but they are different substances. If
I may quote Harold McGee, at page 130:

"The major connective tissue filament is the protein called collagen,
which makes up about a third of all the protein in the animal body, and
is concentrated in the skin, tendons and bones. The name comes from the
Greek for "glue producing", because when it's heated in water, solid,
tough collagen partly dissolves into sticky gelatin. So unlike the
muscle fibers, which become tougher with cooking, the connective tissue
becomes softer....

Fat tissue is a special form of connective tissue, one in which some of
the cells take on the role of storing energy. Animals form fat tissue in
three different parts of the body: just under the skin, where it can
provide insulation as well as energy; in well-defined deposits in the
body cavity, often around the kidneys, intestine, and heart; and in the
connective tissue separating muscles and bundles within muscles. The
term "marbling" is used to describe the pattern of white splotches in
the red matrix of muscle."

When I said beef cheek had no fat I meant fatty fat, the kind that rises
to the top of the liquid and will solidify on cooling. Beef cheek is of
course loaded with collagen which dissolves and makes the liquid
unctuously sticky.

Christine

"Old Mother Ashby" <[email hidden]> wrote >

Quoted message said:

When I said beef cheek had no fat I meant fatty fat, the kind that rises
to the top of the liquid and will solidify on cooling. Beef cheek is of
course loaded with collagen which dissolves and makes the liquid
unctuously sticky.

Christine, let me say, first, that this was an excellent post on the
properties of collagen and fat.

That said, "unctuously sticky" does not sound good to me.
Perhaps the meat is good, though? And you do not consume
the liquid?

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cybercat said:

That said, "unctuously sticky" does not sound good to me.
Perhaps the meat is good, though? And you do not consume
the liquid?

You'd have to cook some beef cheek meat to understand how sticky
this stuff is. You could toss it lightly at any wall and it would
stick like Velcro.

It's very good, though. It's what's used to make barbacoa in most
Tex-mex restaurants/roach-coaches, and you usually pay slightly
more for it than you would any other meat.

-sw

"Tracy" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I make a 7 bone chuck often, but with a sort of Moroccan twist.
I brown the meat, then add lots of chopped onion, some cilantro and
parsley, a diced (peeled and seeded if you like) tomato, chopped
garlic, sharp paprika and just a bit of dried ginger and salt and
pepper.

The onions tend to give off a lot of liquid, so it is not necessary to
add too much water- maybe a cup depending on the size of the pan and
the meat--it does not need to be submerged in water.

I let it simmer on very low for 2-3 hours (covered) and then at the end
add some green olives and peas or artichoke hearts (fresh or frozen not
canned). I usually serve roasted potatoes on the side, but sometimes I
throw potato wedges in with the meat. There is very little liquid in
the pan when it is done. There is some-but not a lot. Enough to dip
bread in. My husband hates it when I put too much water in the pot.
He says "It's not soup!!" If I do put too much water in--I take the
lid of at the end and crank the heat to let some of it cook off.

We eat it Moroccan style using bread to scoop and eat.

I saved this in my "to try" file, sounds perfectly wonderful.

Quoted message said:

I don't end up with a lot of "gel" in the leftovers.

It does tend to be very greasy, but it is delicious.

Tracy

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cybercat said:

"Old Mother Ashby" <[email hidden]> wrote >

Quoted message said:

When I said beef cheek had no fat I meant fatty fat, the kind that rises
to the top of the liquid and will solidify on cooling. Beef cheek is of
course loaded with collagen which dissolves and makes the liquid
unctuously sticky.

Christine, let me say, first, that this was an excellent post on the
properties of collagen and fat.

That said, "unctuously sticky" does not sound good to me.
Perhaps the meat is good, though? And you do not consume
the liquid?

The excellence was all Mr McGee's! His book is full of wonderfully lucid
explanations.

I did not mean to use unctuous in a pejorative sense. The meat and the
liquid are both very richly flavoured. There is no need to reduce or
otherwise thicken the liquid. I use red wine, tomato paste and herbs.

Christine

"Steve Wertz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cybercat said:

That said, "unctuously sticky" does not sound good to me.
Perhaps the meat is good, though? And you do not consume
the liquid?

You'd have to cook some beef cheek meat to understand how sticky
this stuff is. You could toss it lightly at any wall and it would
stick like Velcro.

It's very good, though. It's what's used to make barbacoa in most
Tex-mex restaurants/roach-coaches, and you usually pay slightly
more for it than you would any other meat.

hmm .. okay, food for thought. It was "sticky" that grossed me out,
not so much "unctuously."

Part of the problem with it is, when I braise beef, I am in it for the
broth just as much as the beef. And I like the kind of broth that does
not "gel" in both beef and chicken dishes. The consistency does not
put me off (I made my own chicken stock with bones for years), I just
like the flavor of the non-gelling broth better, at least in chicken.

I'm kind of new at the beef thing. For years all I knew was that everything
I tried to make with beef turned out tough unless I bought filet mignon or
grilled ribeyes, so I avoided it. I'm learning about it now.

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cybercat said:

"Steve Wertz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cybercat said:

That said, "unctuously sticky" does not sound good to me.
Perhaps the meat is good, though? And you do not consume
the liquid?

You'd have to cook some beef cheek meat to understand how sticky
this stuff is. You could toss it lightly at any wall and it would
stick like Velcro.

It's very good, though. It's what's used to make barbacoa in most
Tex-mex restaurants/roach-coaches, and you usually pay slightly
more for it than you would any other meat.

hmm .. okay, food for thought. It was "sticky" that grossed me out,
not so much "unctuously."

Part of the problem with it is, when I braise beef, I am in it for the
broth just as much as the beef. And I like the kind of broth that does
not "gel" in both beef and chicken dishes. The consistency does not
put me off (I made my own chicken stock with bones for years), I just
like the flavor of the non-gelling broth better, at least in chicken.

Won't gel when served hot... and gelatin is flavorless.

Sheldon

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Old Mother Ashby said:

cybercat said:

"Old Mother Ashby" <[email hidden]> wrote >

Quoted message said:

When I said beef cheek had no fat I meant fatty fat, the kind that rises
to the top of the liquid and will solidify on cooling. Beef cheek is of
course loaded with collagen which dissolves and makes the liquid
unctuously sticky.

Christine, let me say, first, that this was an excellent post on the
properties of collagen and fat.

That said, "unctuously sticky" does not sound good to me.
Perhaps the meat is good, though? And you do not consume
the liquid?

The excellence was all Mr McGee's! His book is full of wonderfully lucid
explanations.

I did not mean to use unctuous in a pejorative sense. The meat and the
liquid are both very richly flavoured. There is no need to reduce or
otherwise thicken the liquid. I use red wine, tomato paste and herbs.

Christine

Darn...
I'd planned on using up that chunk of bottom round I have in the freezer
for this weekends beef braise, but I may go spring for a beef cheek
instead. ;-)

You've gone and given me a hankerin' for beef braised pot roast!
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]"
-- Jack Nicholson

Sheldon said:

cybercat said:

"Steve Wertz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 14 Jun 2006 21:59:23 +0200, cybercat wrote:

> That said, "unctuously sticky" does not sound good to me.
> Perhaps the meat is good, though? And you do not consume
> the liquid?
>
You'd have to cook some beef cheek meat to understand how sticky
this stuff is. You could toss it lightly at any wall and it would
stick like Velcro.

It's very good, though. It's what's used to make barbacoa in most
Tex-mex restaurants/roach-coaches, and you usually pay slightly
more for it than you would any other meat.

hmm .. okay, food for thought. It was "sticky" that grossed me out,
not so much "unctuously."

Part of the problem with it is, when I braise beef, I am in it for the
broth just as much as the beef. And I like the kind of broth that does
not "gel" in both beef and chicken dishes. The consistency does not
put me off (I made my own chicken stock with bones for years), I just
like the flavor of the non-gelling broth better, at least in chicken.

Won't gel when served hot... and gelatin is flavorless.

Exactly. But the hot liquid has a wonderful mouthfeel; it's not like you're eating glue, but it's sort of silky. As to chicken broth, I am having trouble working out how you would make a decent tasting broth that didn't gel to some extent.

Christine

"Old Mother Ashby" <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

As to chicken broth, I am having trouble working out how you would make a

decent tasting broth that didn't gel to some >extent.

Quoted message said:

Just use meat for the stock, and skin. Heck, if Campbells can do it, we can
do it, right?

What puts me off is the waste involved. You'd probably have to waste a whole
chicken
just for the stock, then cook another for the tender meat you want in the
soup.

I have just been buying canned or cartoned Swanson's broth and adding my own
roasted meat to it, vegetables and rice, whatever. But around here it is $3
for the
32-oz cans, so the expense might be equal to that of buying an extra
chicken. Still,
I am not sure I could feel comfortable throwing that much quality protein
away.

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