Technical Uphills

danko said:

but absolutly dread going back up on the way out. After my recent conversion to clipless (best
thing I've ever done BTW) this has been even more frustrating b/c after said foot downing, It can
be a real [censored] getting back going uphill unclipped while dodging said roots, and rocks. Do I need
to be more agressive here? Am I focusing on the front wheel placement too much? Should I just keep
easing up the gearing untill it isn't a problem? What words of wisdom can AMB provide?

A full suspension really helps. Beyond that, smooth power is the thing. Your level of agression is
dictated only by your fear of knee and elbow bruises.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Quoted message said:

A full suspension really helps. Beyond that, smooth power is the thing. Your level of agression is
dictated only by your fear of knee and elbow bruises.

Yup, no substitute for FS on bumpy tough climbs; helps a lot. Soften the tire psi for more grip and
smoothing bumps but not so much to pinch flat on downhills. Momentum is your friend, attack the hill
with more speed so your overall climb speed is higher too. Stay in a bit higher gear, may be a bit
harder to pedal but more speed and less tire spinning are the gains.

"Destroy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A full suspension really helps. Beyond that, smooth power is the thing. Your level of agression
is dictated only by your fear of knee and elbow bruises.

Yup, no substitute for FS on bumpy tough climbs; helps a lot. Soften the tire psi for more grip
and smoothing bumps but not so much to pinch flat on downhills. Momentum is your friend, attack
the hill with more speed so your overall climb speed is higher too. Stay in a bit higher gear, may
be a bit harder to pedal but more speed and less tire spinning are the gains.

There are a couple of tough climbs on the local trail just as he has described, neither of which
I've ever made it to the top of. The level of aggression makes the most sense to me though. I don't
think I was ever fully committed. I will keep all this in mind next time.

"danko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So I've been mountain biking for several years now and while I would by no means consider myself
an advanced rider, I feel I can hold my own in most situations. That is, except for technical
climbs. When I hit a steep, even a short one, that is heavily rooted or rocky I almost always end
up losing momentum and have to put a foot down. Relatively smooth steep climbs I can take on no
problems. But I'm coming to dread a few spots on my local trail that I LOVE to bomb down but
absolutly dread going back up on the way out. After my recent conversion to clipless (best thing
I've ever done BTW) this has been even more frustrating b/c after said foot downing, It can be a
real [censored] getting back going uphill unclipped while dodging said roots, and rocks. Do I need to
be more agressive here? Am I focusing on the front wheel placement too much? Should I just keep
easing up the gearing untill it isn't a problem? What words of wisdom can AMB provide?

We have a lot of supertechnical climbs around my home riding area. Here's what I do:

Find the line you want to take first. It might not be the most obvious one - remember, turning on a
steep climb is not easy, so the straighter it is, the better. If you have to go up an 8" step to do
it, it might still be worth it. Find the hardest obstacle - this is your "peak move". Focus on
setting yourself up for that move, not on the moves before hand. Keep your eye on it, don't look too
close, or you'll lose your line. LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO, not at what you want to avoid! Hit the
hill with speed, and try to keep your momentum up the hill. However, don't be in too hard a gear, or
too easy. You want to be able to push the gear sitting down, but without it being so spinny that
when you stand up to move your weight around, you spin out. If it's got a lot of steps, practice
hopping around in your clipless. When you can hop in place, and then forwards, or up onto ledges
from a standstill (with teh front wheel already up on it), you're golden. Then, if you can get your
front wheel up, which usually isn't too hard, you can hop that rear wheel up. It takes a lot of body
english to do it well - if you do it really well, you don't even really need to get the wheel off
the ground, its more of a smooth thing.

Practice to succeed! By this, I mean don't practice if you're stuck on one move, and are getting
frustrated. Move on, do it on the way back, or wait for another ride. But don't give up either - if
you walk it every time without trying it 3 or 4 times (or more, if you're determined and are making
progress), you won't get any better. If you're really stuck, try it in a different gear, try a
different line, just mix it up a bit.

Hope that helps!

Jon Bond

I'm no really technical climber, but I've learn to pop a wheelie on some of the roots and rocks I
used to not be able to climb on. Then I make sure I have enough weight on the back wheel by shifting
my butt back a little so it does not lose traction. This is becoming instinctive to me now.

--
- Zilla Cary, NC (Remove XSPAM)

"danko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So I've been mountain biking for several years now and while I would by no means consider myself
an advanced rider, I feel I can hold my own in most situations. That is, except for technical
climbs. When I hit a steep, even a short one, that is heavily rooted or rocky I almost always end
up losing momentum and have to put a foot down. Relatively smooth steep climbs I can take on no
problems. But I'm coming to dread a few spots on my local trail that I LOVE to bomb down but
absolutly dread going back up on the way out. After my recent conversion to clipless (best thing
I've ever done BTW) this has been even more frustrating b/c after said foot downing, It can be a
real [censored] getting back going uphill unclipped while dodging said roots, and rocks. Do I need to
be more agressive here? Am I focusing on the front wheel placement too much? Should I just keep
easing up the gearing untill it isn't a problem? What words of wisdom can AMB provide?

Zilla said:

I'm no really technical climber, but I've learn to pop a wheelie on some of the roots and
rocks I used to not be able to climb on. Then I make sure I have enough weight on the back
wheel by shifting my butt back a little so it does not lose traction. This is becoming
instinctive to me now.

That's funny... I do the opposite. When I wheelie over an obstacle on a climb, I do a big weight
shift to the front to totally unweight the rear wheel, so it has no choice but to follow the front
over the tricky spot. I do this because usually traction is hard to get on the obstacles, but
typically quite good uphill of them.

Miles

Destroy <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A full suspension really helps. Beyond that, smooth power is the thing. Your level of agression
is dictated only by your fear of knee and elbow bruises.

Yup, no substitute for FS on bumpy tough climbs; helps a lot. Soften the tire psi for more grip
and smoothing bumps but not so much to pinch flat on downhills. Momentum is your friend, attack
the hill with more speed so your overall climb speed is higher too. Stay in a bit higher gear, may
be a bit harder to pedal but more speed and less tire spinning are the gains.

What I find amazing is that an admitted newb thinks they can give advice, especially advice that
sucks. Your mythical notion that there is no substitute for FS on a bumpy climb is the most glaring
of your [censored] "advice". Climbing technical is situational and there is no set formula. Some people
can granny spin up and others may find that powering up works better for them, just as some may find
a hardtail is better than FS for technical climbing.

To the original poster: Take a dirt camp class or other type skills clinic instead of listening to
the crapola advice from newbs who think they know what they are talking about.

JD

"danko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So I've been mountain biking for several years now and while I would by no means consider myself
an advanced rider, I feel I can hold my own in most situations. That is, except for technical
climbs. When I hit a steep, even a short one, that is heavily rooted or rocky I almost always end
up losing momentum and have to put a foot down. Relatively smooth steep climbs I can take on no
problems. But I'm coming to dread a few spots on my local trail that I LOVE to bomb down but
absolutly dread going back up on the way out. After my recent conversion to clipless (best thing
I've ever done BTW) this has been even more frustrating b/c after said foot downing, It can be a
real [censored] getting back going uphill unclipped while dodging said roots, and rocks. Do I need to
be more agressive here? Am I focusing on the front wheel placement too much? Should I just keep
easing up the gearing untill it isn't a problem? What words of wisdom can AMB provide?

I'm not sure about momentum. It's a funny thing to me. Slowish and steady is what I find to be the
best. By slowish I mean fast enough to have that momentum to get over stuff because extra speed
helps more often than not when trying to clear a single obstacle. But not so fast that you run out
of puff and bonk after trying to clean several obstacles. You need to keep a lot in reserve too.
Like when you need an explosive effort to pop wheelies up and over stuff or bounce around. Or even
just to keep your balance and mash when you're close to stalling and about to dab after
miscalculating.

Balancing the weight between front and rear makes a big difference too. You've got get that weight
forward but keep enough on the rear wheel to prevent it spinning out and to be able to stay light on
the front wheel so it can go up and over obstacles. No real trick to that I don't think. You've just
got to learn to feel it.

Aggression certainly helps. But don't let it take control. All that adrenaline gives you more energy
but it's no good charging it like a bull at a gate. You need to control and guide it, to let it flow
through you and guide your actions. You need to become one with the force. Don't let your aggression
force you and control you and make you give in to the power of the dark side.
--
Westie

[email hidden] (danko) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

So I've been mountain biking for several years now and while I would by no means consider myself
an advanced rider, I feel I can hold my own in most situations. That is, except for technical
climbs. When I hit a steep, even a short one, that is heavily rooted or rocky I almost always end
up losing momentum and have to put a foot down. Relatively smooth steep climbs I can take on no
problems. But I'm coming to dread a few spots on my local trail that I LOVE to bomb down but
absolutly dread going back up on the way out. After my recent conversion to clipless (best thing
I've ever done BTW) this has been even more frustrating b/c after said foot downing, It can be a
real [censored] getting back going uphill unclipped while dodging said roots, and rocks. Do I need to
be more agressive here? Am I focusing on the front wheel placement too much? Should I just keep
easing up the gearing untill it isn't a problem? What words of wisdom can AMB provide?

You've gotten some good advice (paid for in blood, eh, Commander?) and some silly advice. Some
thoughts from a sick mind:

pedal harder. No I'm not being rude.

monkey-see, monkey-do. How do others do it? Bend it like Beckham, or do it like the successful
riders do it.

analyze what's really holding you back? losing traction? losing power? losing control of the
front wheel?

Learn to trackstand. Ever wonder why the freak is so good at technical sections that send saner
riders crying home to mamma?

Watch a video. Ned has a good one. If you can't afford it, then the AMB-ID 2002 video opens with
some peacock climbing a steep root ladder. Watch that turkey slide forward, pedal hard & wrestle his
bar to keep from washing out.

If that's not enough, free lessons every Wed morning at 6:45a.m. Everything here but slick rock.

Paladin

(Paladin) said:

pedal harder. No I'm not being rude.

Depends on the rider and the terrain. Some climbs are better mashed while others are better spun.

I am usually way more successful at spinning over obstacles than mashing over them.

Barry

(JD) said:

To the original poster: Take a dirt camp class or other type skills clinic instead of listening to
the crapola advice from newbs who think they know what they are talking about.

Or ride with some experienced folks who are willing to stop along the trail and let you make several
attempts at obstacles.

Barry

"miles todd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Zilla said:

I'm no really technical climber, but I've learn to pop a wheelie on some of the roots and
rocks I used to not be able to climb on. Then I make sure I have enough weight on the back
wheel by shifting my butt back a little so it does not lose traction. This is becoming
instinctive to me now.

That's funny... I do the opposite. When I wheelie over an obstacle on a climb, I do a big weight
shift to the front to totally unweight the rear wheel, so it has no choice but to follow the front
over the tricky spot. I do this because usually traction is hard to get on the obstacles, but
typically quite good uphill of them.

Miles

For some reason I lose traction when I shift my weight "too" forward. My weight is "already" shifted
forward during a climb.

--
- Zilla Cary, NC (Remove XSPAM)

Westie said:

I'm not sure about momentum. It's a funny thing to me. Slowish and steady is what I find to be the
best. By slowish I mean fast enough to have that momentum to get over stuff because extra speed
helps more often than not when trying to clear a single obstacle. But not so fast that you run out
of puff and bonk after trying to clean several obstacles. You need to keep a lot in reserve too.
Like when you need an explosive effort to pop wheelies up and over stuff or bounce around. Or even
just to keep your balance and mash when you're close to stalling and about to dab after
miscalculating.

This is good advice. Unless the hill is small enough or you are badass enough to climb the entire
hill at high speed, you're going to need to slow down in between obstacles and regain energy and
composure. Then just before the obstacle you can hit the gas and nail it with some momentum.

Quoted message said:

Aggression certainly helps. But don't let it take control. All that adrenaline gives you more
energy but it's no good charging it like a bull at a gate. You need to control and guide it, to
let it flow through you and guide your actions. You need to become one with the force. Don't let
your aggression force you and control you and make you give in to the power of the dark side.

But do not use your light sabre to remove the obstacle.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

BB said:

But do not use your light sabre to remove the obstacle.

I don't need no stinkin' light sabre, I can create a toxic nebula on demand!

Barry

B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(JD) said:

To the original poster: Take a dirt camp class or other type skills clinic instead of listening
to the crapola advice from newbs who think they know what they are talking about.

Or ride with some experienced folks who are willing to stop along the trail and let you make
several attempts at obstacles.

While your answer makes sense Barry, there is a reason I don't post that answer. If this person had
friends who ride, why in the first place would they have to ask a bunch of strangers on the
internet? My answer seems to be more practical with this notion in mind.

JD

B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Paladin) said:

pedal harder. No I'm not being rude.

Depends on the rider and the terrain. Some climbs are better mashed while others are better spun.

I am usually way more successful at spinning over obstacles than mashing over them.

Barry

What I was getting at was the old saying that "there's not a whole lot of trouble you can get into
on a mountainbike that pedalling harder won't you get you out of." Especially going up hill. Stuff
that's too steep, I can't just sit and spin, or I'll flip over backwards. I might have to stretch
out over the bars like a mongoose slipping under a chicken fence, with the infamous "sphincter
hold" employed or not depending on conditions. The standing and rowing motion also comes to mind,
where you can keep traction on the rear, yet transfer a lot of power to the cranks by standing,
yada yada yada.

Paladin

"danko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So I've been mountain biking for several years now and while I would by no means consider myself
an advanced rider, I feel I can hold my own in most situations. That is, except for technical
climbs. When I hit a steep, even a short one, that is heavily rooted or rocky I almost always end
up losing momentum and have to put a foot down. Relatively smooth steep climbs I can take on no
problems. But I'm coming to dread a few spots on my local trail that I LOVE to bomb down but
absolutly dread going back up on the way out. After my recent conversion to clipless (best thing
I've ever done BTW) this has been even more frustrating b/c after said foot downing, It can be a
real [censored] getting back going uphill unclipped while dodging said roots, and rocks. Do I need to
be more agressive here? Am I focusing on the front wheel placement too much? Should I just keep
easing up the gearing untill it isn't a problem? What words of wisdom can AMB provide?

Take the shuttle. ;^)

Mike

B a r r y B u r k e J r . said:

BB said:

But do not use your light sabre to remove the obstacle.

I don't need no stinkin' light sabre, I can create a toxic nebula on demand!

Remind me not to ride BEHIND you, then. ;-)

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

RE/

Quoted message said:

I'm no really technical climber, but I've learn to pop a wheelie on some of the roots and rocks I
used to not be able to climb on

Somebody distinguish between raising the front wheel by shifting weight backwards and applying pedal
force and bunnyhopping the wheel up.

I've been doing option "A", but it's starting to dawn on my that it might be a bad habit to get
into. With "B", there's no diff between a downhill approach and a flat or uphill approach - it works
either way. With "A", OTOH, I've burned myself a couple times forgetting that eithr I'm going too
fast for the gear I'm in or the downslope is just too much for a "manual" type wheelie.

Accordingly, I'm using manual-type wheelies very sparingly and trying to train myself to do the hop
thing... Am I on the right track?
-----------------------
PeteCresswell