Online bakeries

On Tue 16 May 2006 09:37:51p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it djs0302
@aol.com?

Quoted message said:

Has anyone ever bought any bakery products from a company that sells
online or through catalog sales? I was just curious because HSN was
featuring "David's Cookies" a while back and I couldn't believe the
prices they were charging. I thought you have got to be kidding. I
went to the David's cookies website and checked out some of their
prices. A 1 pound tin of cookies costs $22.99. A 2 pound tin costs
$29.99. I don't care if they are gourmet cookies. I can make a heck
of a lot more than 2 pounds of cookies with $29.99 dollars worth of
ingredients.

I have to agree that the cookies are rediculously priced.

Quoted message said:

They're not the only ones who charge ridiculous prices. I make
homemade danish pastries from scratch. The dough itself takes several
hours if not a day to make. I also make my fruit fillings from
scratch. I figured the total cost for each danish to be about 45
cents. I went to a couple online bakeries and the minimum price I saw
for a single danish was $1.75. I think at that price I'd say you can
keep the danish.

You're only considering the cost of ingredients. Consider the cost of
labor. Would you sell them for $.45 each?

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone ever bought any bakery products from a company that sells
online or through catalog sales? I was just curious because HSN was
featuring "David's Cookies" a while back and I couldn't believe the
prices they were charging. I thought you have got to be kidding. I
went to the David's cookies website and checked out some of their
prices. A 1 pound tin of cookies costs $22.99. A 2 pound tin costs
$29.99. I don't care if they are gourmet cookies. I can make a heck
of a lot more than 2 pounds of cookies with $29.99 dollars worth of
ingredients.
They're not the only ones who charge ridiculous prices. I make
homemade danish pastries from scratch. The dough itself takes several
hours if not a day to make. I also make my fruit fillings from
scratch. I figured the total cost for each danish to be about 45
cents. I went to a couple online bakeries and the minimum price I saw
for a single danish was $1.75. I think at that price I'd say you can
keep the danish.

In store - not on line: if a danish LOOKS good, it is worth $1.75 to take a
chance on it.
If then, it really tastes good, it's worth $2.75.
I see nothing but dead looking [censored] at coffee shops, all costing at least
$2.00.
Dee Dee

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

They're not the only ones who charge ridiculous prices. I make
homemade danish pastries from scratch. The dough itself takes several
hours if not a day to make. I also make my fruit fillings from
scratch. I figured the total cost for each danish to be about 45
cents. I went to a couple online bakeries and the minimum price I saw
for a single danish was $1.75. I think at that price I'd say you can
keep the danish.

I say for not having to spend a day making dough and fillings,
I'll just pay for a danish. I don't want 2 dozen danishes, either,
which I assume a recipe would make. Okay, a dozen. Whatever.
Aside from the fact that I don't see ordering danish online, I can
for sure see why they aren't 45 cents. If I was somewhere and,
oddly, decided I wanted a danish, I'd fork over the 2 bucks.

People who make food for sale have more overhead than someone
in their home kitchen. What you can make something for at home
doesn't usually compare to what you are charged if someone else
makes it, just look at restaurant prices.

nancy

Quoted message said:

Has anyone ever bought any bakery products from a company that sells
online or through catalog sales? I was just curious because HSN was
featuring "David's Cookies" a while back and I couldn't believe the
prices they were charging.

I've never bought from the online places myself, but we sell similar
products where I work (wine, cheese and gourmet shop with fancy cookies,
vinegars, etc.). As near as I can tell, the online bakeries all have
retail and wholesale sales. Even the wholesale prices seem high to me,
and the prices we have to sell for after mark-up strike me as
outrageous. And you know what? The products sell. They don't run out
of the store, but they do sell slow and steady, enough to make it worth
it to carry the product.

I shrug my shoulders. Not every product was meant for me. There's
someone out there who thinks I'm nuts for paying $20 for a bottle of
wine just like I think people are nuts to pay $20 for a box of cookies.

--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Has anyone ever bought any bakery products from a company that sells
online or through catalog sales? I was just curious because HSN was
featuring "David's Cookies" a while back and I couldn't believe the
prices they were charging.

I've never bought from the online places myself, but we sell similar
products where I work (wine, cheese and gourmet shop with fancy cookies,
vinegars, etc.). As near as I can tell, the online bakeries all have
retail and wholesale sales. Even the wholesale prices seem high to me,
and the prices we have to sell for after mark-up strike me as outrageous.
And you know what? The products sell. They don't run out of the store,
but they do sell slow and steady, enough to make it worth it to carry the
product.

I shrug my shoulders. Not every product was meant for me. There's
someone out there who thinks I'm nuts for paying $20 for a bottle of wine
just like I think people are nuts to pay $20 for a box of cookies.

--Lia

I'd like to be that kind of nuts, but be able to afford $20 for a bottle of
wine. Give me wine anyday over a box of cookies. $20 a bottle, too!
Dee Dee

Dee Randall said:

"Julia Altshuler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I shrug my shoulders. Not every product was meant for me. There's
someone out there who thinks I'm nuts for paying $20 for a bottle of wine
just like I think people are nuts to pay $20 for a box of cookies.

I'd like to be that kind of nuts, but be able to afford $20 for a bottle of
wine. Give me wine anyday over a box of cookies. $20 a bottle, too!
Dee Dee

And then there are the people who think I'm nuts for spending an
afternoon baking my own cookies when I could be doing something fun.

--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dee Randall said:

"Julia Altshuler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I shrug my shoulders. Not every product was meant for me. There's
someone out there who thinks I'm nuts for paying $20 for a bottle of wine
just like I think people are nuts to pay $20 for a box of cookies.

I'd like to be that kind of nuts, but be able to afford $20 for a bottle
of wine. Give me wine anyday over a box of cookies. $20 a bottle, too!
Dee Dee

And then there are the people who think I'm nuts for spending an afternoon
baking my own cookies when I could be doing something fun.

--Lia

That sounds fun to me, too. But for me - it's bread!
I'm a flop at baking anything but bread.
Dee Dee

Wayne Boatwright said:

You're only considering the cost of ingredients. Consider the cost of
labor. Would you sell them for $.45 each?

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

Of course I wouldn't sell them for $.45 each but I can't imagine
almost a 300% markup.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Wayne Boatwright said:

You're only considering the cost of ingredients. Consider the cost of
labor. Would you sell them for $.45 each?

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

Of course I wouldn't sell them for $.45 each but I can't imagine
almost a 300% markup.

If you were making them commercially, not only would you have to consider
ingredients and labor, you'd need to cover the cost of working in a
commercial kitchen, which is generally a health code requirement. Here, if I
wanted to, I could rent one for $25 per hour. I don't know how many hours
your "all day" dough would really take, but if it's 8 hours, that's $200
added to the cost. How many Danish could you make and sell in a day, and how
many would you end up throwing away after they got stale?

If it's being shipped, you're also paying for the packaging materials and
the shipping costs. A commercial baker is probably going to have some nicely
printed custom boxes or labels, so there's another cost.

Then add on all the extra costs that no one ever sees -- stupid stuff like
yellow pages ads, phone service, labor (if you're not doing all the work
yourself) all the taxes and insurance and things like that. And the person
running the business is going to want to make a living from the business.

By the time you're done, there's more cost in everything besides
ingredients. So, ingredients-wise, the Danish aren't worth what you pay. If
it's a great secret recipe, or the baker has skills you don't have, then it
might be worth paying for.

Donna

On Wed 17 May 2006 02:01:57p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it djs0302
@aol.com?

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

You're only considering the cost of ingredients. Consider the cost of
labor. Would you sell them for $.45 each?

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬ _____________________

Of course I wouldn't sell them for $.45 each but I can't imagine
almost a 300% markup.

How much do you think it costs to produce, say, a good loaf of good rye
bread? I'm sure that the $3.00-$6.00 per loaf charge in many better bakers
is at least a 300% markup. The cost of ingredients is often neglible to
the price of the product, all other things considered.

--

Wayne Boatwright
_____________________________________________________________

"How can a nation be great if it's bread taste like Kleenex?"

Julia Child

D.Currie said:

If you were making them commercially, not only would you have to consider
ingredients and labor, you'd need to cover the cost of working in a
commercial kitchen, which is generally a health code requirement. Here, if I
wanted to, I could rent one for $25 per hour. I don't know how many hours
your "all day" dough would really take, but if it's 8 hours, that's $200
added to the cost. How many Danish could you make and sell in a day, and how
many would you end up throwing away after they got stale?

The actual labor is about two hours or less depending on how fast or
slow I work. The rest of the time the dough is either resting in the
refrigerator or I'm waiting for the finished danish to rise. I would
never consider selling them commercially although I have gotten orders
from neighbors. In order to be cost effective in a commercial
environment a person would also have to sell other products that could
be made more quickly at a lower cost.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

D.Currie said:

If you were making them commercially, not only would you have to consider
ingredients and labor, you'd need to cover the cost of working in a
commercial kitchen, which is generally a health code requirement. Here,
if I
wanted to, I could rent one for $25 per hour. I don't know how many hours
your "all day" dough would really take, but if it's 8 hours, that's $200
added to the cost. How many Danish could you make and sell in a day, and
how
many would you end up throwing away after they got stale?

The actual labor is about two hours or less depending on how fast or
slow I work. The rest of the time the dough is either resting in the
refrigerator or I'm waiting for the finished danish to rise. I would
never consider selling them commercially although I have gotten orders
from neighbors. In order to be cost effective in a commercial
environment a person would also have to sell other products that could
be made more quickly at a lower cost.

The whole point is that there are a lot of costs in doing something as a
business that have to be factored into the cost of product or service. Most
people look at the cost of materials and discount all the other costs.

It always amuses me when someone looks at a CD (music or software) and
wonders why it costs so much when it's just a couple pennies worth of
plastic. But everyone from the CEO to the guy who cleans the offices at
night has to be paid from the "profit" on the CD.

Same thing with those Danish or cookies or whatever. When you buy one,
you're not just paying for ingredients, you're paying for all the other
business expenses as well. So of course you can make them a lot cheaper at
home.

Donna

D.Currie said:

It always amuses me when someone looks at a CD (music or software) and
wonders why it costs so much when it's just a couple pennies worth of
plastic. But everyone from the CEO to the guy who cleans the offices at
night has to be paid from the "profit" on the CD.

Er, no.

In the corporate world, "profit" is what you have left after the help
are paid.

It costs about a buck to produce each CD, including labor and
management and advertising and distribution. And royalties are about
another dollar.

The other $13.99 is pure cash profit in the record company's bank
account. Which is why it's so valuable to them to continue to be
absolutely draconian about intellectual property.

--Blair

D.Currie said:

Quoted message said:

Same thing with those Danish or cookies or whatever. When you buy one,

you're not just paying for ingredients, you're paying for all the other
business expenses as well. So of course you can make them a lot cheaper at
home.

Donna

That being said, would you pay $22.99 for just 1 pound of cookies?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

D.Currie said:

Quoted message said:

Same thing with those Danish or cookies or whatever. When you buy one,

you're not just paying for ingredients, you're paying for all the other
business expenses as well. So of course you can make them a lot cheaper
at
home.

Donna

That being said, would you pay $22.99 for just 1 pound of cookies?

Not a chance. Just because I know what's behind the cost doesn't mean I'm
willing to pay it. But cookies are something I can make, if I feel like it.
People who think baking is some mysterious alchemy would be willing to pay
that price, though. Obviously they do, if the place has been selling them
for while.

There are things that I'm willing to pay someone for, even though in theory
I could do it myself cheaper. I'm perfectly happy to pay someone to change
the oil in my car, for example. If there was no such thing as a budget, I
might buy those cookies, just to see if they were anything special.

Donna

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

D.Currie said:

It always amuses me when someone looks at a CD (music or software) and
wonders why it costs so much when it's just a couple pennies worth of
plastic. But everyone from the CEO to the guy who cleans the offices at
night has to be paid from the "profit" on the CD.

Er, no.

In the corporate world, "profit" is what you have left after the help
are paid.

Note the quote marks around "profit." The right word wasn't coming to mind.
It still isn't.

Quoted message said:

It costs about a buck to produce each CD, including labor and
management and advertising and distribution. And royalties are about
another dollar.

The other $13.99 is pure cash profit in the record company's bank
account. Which is why it's so valuable to them to continue to be
absolutely draconian about intellectual property.

I've heard so many different numbers on what it really costs...and it's
going to be different depending on whether we're talking about a
self-pressed CD, a small software company, a big record label, bought direct
from the source, marked up at a retail store, and whether it's software,
music or video on the disk...and frankly I don't care what it is exactly.

My point was that people tend to look at material costs alone and ignore the
fact that even though what you're buying is the tangible product, there's
all sorts of other stuff that has to be paid for. And that's true whether
it's a dime's worth of plastic in a CD or a quarter's worth of ingredients
in a cookie. There's going to be significant markup to cover expenses and
profit, or the business isn't going to be around for long.

Donna

D.Currie said:

Not a chance. Just because I know what's behind the cost doesn't mean I'm
willing to pay it. But cookies are something I can make, if I feel like it.
People who think baking is some mysterious alchemy would be willing to pay
that price, though. Obviously they do, if the place has been selling them
for while.

There are things that I'm willing to pay someone for, even though in theory
I could do it myself cheaper. I'm perfectly happy to pay someone to change
the oil in my car, for example. If there was no such thing as a budget, I
might buy those cookies, just to see if they were anything special.

Donna

I wonder if the high price for the cookies attracts customers who are
simply curious? There's probably 3 types of people: those who would
buy the cookies without giving it a second thought, those who would say
no way, and those who are curious and want to know if they're really
worth the price. For something as simple as cookies I wouldn't pay
that price because unless you're a total moron in the kitchen anybody
can bake cookies. As far as danish go, maybe since I enjoy making them
I don't think about how much work is actually involved.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

D.Currie said:

Not a chance. Just because I know what's behind the cost doesn't mean I'm
willing to pay it. But cookies are something I can make, if I feel like
it.
People who think baking is some mysterious alchemy would be willing to
pay
that price, though. Obviously they do, if the place has been selling them
for while.

There are things that I'm willing to pay someone for, even though in
theory
I could do it myself cheaper. I'm perfectly happy to pay someone to
change
the oil in my car, for example. If there was no such thing as a budget, I
might buy those cookies, just to see if they were anything special.

Donna

I wonder if the high price for the cookies attracts customers who are
simply curious? There's probably 3 types of people: those who would
buy the cookies without giving it a second thought, those who would say
no way, and those who are curious and want to know if they're really
worth the price. For something as simple as cookies I wouldn't pay
that price because unless you're a total moron in the kitchen anybody
can bake cookies. As far as danish go, maybe since I enjoy making them
I don't think about how much work is actually involved.

There are probably also people who look at the price and imagine that if
they're charging that much, they must be good. And when they get them, they
feel like they have to like them because they paid so much. More of a status
thing than a good taste thing.

I've never made danish -- actually I can't remember the last time I ate
one -- but I'd probably pay two bucks if I wanted one. And I'd probably only
want one, so making a whole batch would be a waste.

On the other hand, I bake most of my own bread, and I think that's about as
simple as it gets. The only way I'd pay for a loaf of bread would be if I
really, really screwed up and I needed bread for a meal and ran out of time
for making my own bread that day. And then I'd grumble about the price.

Donna

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

That being said, would you pay $22.99 for just 1 pound of cookies?

In fairness, the OP stated that two pounds of cookies costs $29.99.
So, really, the bakery is making money at $7.00 per pound. Much of
the price of the first pound is tied up in promotion, shipping,
etc., with a small incremental cost for the second pound.

Don't get me wrong -- I agree with you completely in that people
don't always consider the extra costs (staffing, promotion, boxes,
etc.); nor do they tend to value their labor at all. I wouldn't
spend $22.99 for a pound of cookies, though. Probably not even
$7.00.

sd