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TGO v Trail

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
7 June 2006
Last activity
9 June 2006
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214Fells
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  1. Towards the end of last year I suggested that I may drop buying TGO.
    Glad I didn't - it's really improved - dare I say that it's added some
    Trail like monthly features that makes it more readable to the
    'newbie'? For example; Wild Walks. Perhaps it's also become less
    Scotland-centric?

    Finally this months ('July 2006'😉 article by Mr T on 'Windstoppers'
    answered an issue I've been grappling with for some time. Feel an
    order for either the Paramo Fuera Smock or Montane Lite Speed may be
    about to be placed?

    David.

  2. In article <[email hidden]>,
    214Fells <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    Finally this months ('July 2006'😉 article by Mr T on 'Windstoppers'
    answered an issue I've been grappling with for some time. Feel an
    order for either the Paramo Fuera Smock or Montane Lite Speed may be
    about to be placed?

    I have not seen the Fuera but the Lite-Speed is a brilliant bit of kit.
    I was so impressed that I now have two! I use them (and a Featherlite
    smock which is eve lighter but has no hood) much more than I do my
    waterproof jackets.

    More details on Montane's site:

    http://montane.co.uk/productdetails.php?productid=40&rid=7
    http://montane.co.uk/productdetails.php?productid=46&rid=7

    --

    Dominic Sexton

  3. Dominic Sexton said:

    I have not seen the Fuera but the Lite-Speed is a brilliant bit of kit.
    I was so impressed that I now have two! I use them (and a Featherlite
    smock which is eve lighter but has no hood) much more than I do my
    waterproof jackets.

    More details on Montane's site:

    http://montane.co.uk/productdetails.php?productid=40&rid=7
    http://montane.co.uk/productdetails.php?productid=46&rid=7

    Thanks for that, Dominic.

    I'm hoping that either product will prevent the problem I suffer with
    now and that is severe condensation. Take my top layer off and I feel
    the windchill but leave it on and I'm soaked from the inside out. If
    either product is capable of reducing (elimination may be beyond any
    garment) condensation and at the same time reduce the windchill effect
    it will be money well spent.

    Cheers David.

  4. In article <[email hidden]>,
    214Fells <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    Dominic Sexton said:

    I have not seen the Fuera but the Lite-Speed is a brilliant bit of kit.
    I was so impressed that I now have two! I use them (and a Featherlite
    smock which is eve lighter but has no hood) much more than I do my
    waterproof jackets.

    More details on Montane's site:

    http://montane.co.uk/productdetails.php?productid=40&rid=7
    http://montane.co.uk/productdetails.php?productid=46&rid=7

    Thanks for that, Dominic.

    I'm hoping that either product will prevent the problem I suffer with
    now and that is severe condensation. Take my top layer off and I feel
    the windchill but leave it on and I'm soaked from the inside out. If
    either product is capable of reducing (elimination may be beyond any
    garment) condensation and at the same time reduce the windchill effect
    it will be money well spent.

    Well they are very much more breathable than any of the waterproof
    fabrics so they certainly help. However stopping the wind does make you
    a good deal warmer so you won't want to be wearing much underneath. I
    generally just wear a wicking baselayer under them unless it is very
    cold out.

    The Light-Speed is more versatile than the Featherlite Smock because it
    has a full length zip so it is easier to ventilate. The hood come in
    handy too when it is quite windy or chucking it down.

    They won't keep you completely dry in persistent rain or heavy showers
    but they are very effective most of the time.

    You can also get Pertex overtrousers. Montane do some:

    http://montane.co.uk/productdetails.php?productid=41&rid=7

    but I have a pair of Needlesports own from the bottom of this page (in
    black!):

    http://www.needlesports.com/acatalog/Mail_Order_Windproofs_40.html

    I was never a great fan of waterproof overtrousers but now they almost
    never get used in preference to these. I don't even take the waterproof
    ones out with me unless I am expecting foul weather.

    --

    Dominic Sexton

  5. 214Fells said:

    I'm hoping that either product will prevent the problem I suffer with
    now and that is severe condensation. Take my top layer off and I feel
    the windchill but leave it on and I'm soaked from the inside out. If
    either product is capable of reducing (elimination may be beyond any
    garment) condensation and at the same time reduce the windchill effect
    it will be money well spent.

    Condensation in either will be /miles/ less than a membrane waterproof.
    Of the two, the Paramo has more venting options so you can cut down
    problems even more. That's not 1,000,000 miles away from the Buffalo
    Windshirt (I've not seen the TGO article and the hospital's branch of
    Smith's seems to have stopped stocking it, bah!).

    Another way around this problem is use something that is less windproof,
    but windproof /enough/ to keep out the worst to a greater extent than
    e.g. 200 weight fleece. Ultrafleece/Karisma is good in this respect,
    and a more expensive but better overall solution is Schoeller Dryskin.
    These are not much use for summer, mind, but for a versatile warm jacket
    they're a useful option.

    One of my better eBay bargains this year has been an old Rohan
    polycotton walking jacket. Near as dammit windproof, /very/ breathable,
    light and low bulk (though still heavier and bulkier than the wee pertex
    tops) and rather more general purpose cut and design than the light soft
    shells I use (Montane Featherlight). It's noticeably less sweaty than
    the pertex top.

    Rohan have their "Windshadow" jacket £20 off in their bargain bin at the
    mo, which makes it about the right price ;-/ If you prefer a jacket to
    a pullover it looks like a viable alternative.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  6. Peter Clinch said:

    Condensation in either will be /miles/ less than a membrane waterproof.

    Excellent!

    Quoted message said:

    Of the two, the Paramo has more venting options so you can cut down
    problems even more. That's not 1,000,000 miles away from the Buffalo
    Windshirt (I've not seen the TGO article and the hospital's branch of
    Smith's seems to have stopped stocking it, bah!).

    TGO have placed the Buffalo Windshirt in the recommended category.

    Thanks to Peter & Dominic for the feedback, greatly appreciated.

    With respect to my final solution, I hope to just wear a wicking
    T-shirt under the windshirt most of the time. Maybe wearing a fleece
    when stopped at a summit.

    David.

  7. In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    One of my better eBay bargains this year has been an old Rohan
    polycotton walking jacket. Near as dammit windproof, /very/
    breathable, light and low bulk (though still heavier and bulkier than
    the wee pertex tops) and rather more general purpose cut and design
    than the light soft shells I use (Montane Featherlight). It's
    noticeably less sweaty than the pertex top.

    I have an old Mountain Equipment Freestyle polycotton jacket which is
    sadly on its last legs. Light with decent pockets it made a great shell
    on dry days.

    I have been keeping my eyes open for a replacement but have not spotted
    one yet. Any idea if any firms still make similar jackets Pete?

    --

    Dominic Sexton

  8. Dominic Sexton said:

    I have been keeping my eyes open for a replacement but have not spotted
    one yet. Any idea if any firms still make similar jackets Pete?

    I'm not aware of any, but if you hunt through Rohan stuff on eBay the
    "Pampas" jacket crops up a fair bit, and sometimes the Action jacket
    (that's what I have). Mine was £20, and I've been very please with it.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,
    214Fells <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    Peter Clinch said:

    Condensation in either will be /miles/ less than a membrane waterproof.

    Excellent!

    Quoted message said:

    Of the two, the Paramo has more venting options so you can cut down
    problems even more. That's not 1,000,000 miles away from the Buffalo
    Windshirt (I've not seen the TGO article and the hospital's branch of
    Smith's seems to have stopped stocking it, bah!).

    TGO have placed the Buffalo Windshirt in the recommended category.

    I have one of those too! It does have better ventilation and I was
    impressed with the weight when I got it (~10 years ago) but at 230g it
    is 2 1/2 times the weight of the Montane Featherlight smock. It is also
    70g more than the Light-Speed jacket which has a hood. The pit zips on
    the Buffalo are good but the full length zip and hood on the Light-Speed
    make it more versatile in my experience.

    --

    Dominic Sexton

  10. Dominic Sexton said:

    I have one of those too! It does have better ventilation and I was
    impressed with the weight when I got it (~10 years ago) but at 230g it
    is 2 1/2 times the weight of the Montane Featherlight smock. It is also
    70g more than the Light-Speed jacket which has a hood. The pit zips on
    the Buffalo are good but the full length zip and hood on the Light-Speed
    make it more versatile in my experience.

    If, like me, you're a slaphead and tend to have a hat angle covered most
    of the time the hood is less of an issue (not that I don't use hoods,
    just not as much). Another plus for the Buffalo is a monster size chest
    pocket which will easily take a map (unless they're changed the design
    and borken it, that is...)

    I have a Featherlight (and an even lighter Aero) and for something to
    stuff into a cranny just in case I'd say they're better, but if the plan
    is to be wearing the windshell the whole time then the lightest ones do
    lose a bit of mileage on the pockets and venting angles.

    As usual, you choose, you lose!

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  11. Dominic Sexton said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    214Fells <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    Finally this months ('July 2006'😉 article by Mr T on 'Windstoppers'
    answered an issue I've been grappling with for some time. Feel an
    order for either the Paramo Fuera Smock or Montane Lite Speed may be
    about to be placed?

    I have not seen the Fuera but the Lite-Speed is a brilliant bit of kit.
    I was so impressed that I now have two! I use them (and a Featherlite
    smock which is eve lighter but has no hood) much more than I do my
    waterproof jackets.

    I've got a Litespeed but stopped using it because the zip kept getting
    stuck. It was so bad once when it became stuck just a few inches from
    the top when taking it off, that I considered cutting it off. To my mind
    this fault is verging on dangerous! If you're getting cold and decide to
    put it on, and the zip gets stuck but because your hands are too cold
    you can't free it, it could make the difference in getting hypothermia.

    Jim Ford

  12. Jim Ford said:

    I've got a Litespeed but stopped using it because the zip kept getting
    stuck. It was so bad once when it became stuck just a few inches from
    the top when taking it off, that I considered cutting it off. To my mind
    this fault is verging on dangerous! If you're getting cold and decide to
    put it on, and the zip gets stuck but because your hands are too cold
    you can't free it, it could make the difference in getting hypothermia.

    If the jacket is otherwise good, and given they're not giving them away,
    why not just replace the zip (or get someone else to do it if you're not
    happy with a sewing machine)?
    Bit of a waste otherwise...

    If you're relying on a Litespeed as the Ultimate Barrier against
    hypothermia conditions then I think a bit of kit review is probably in
    order!

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  13. Peter Clinch said:
    Jim Ford said:

    I've got a Litespeed but stopped using it because the zip kept getting
    stuck. It was so bad once when it became stuck just a few inches from
    the top when taking it off, that I considered cutting it off. To my
    mind this fault is verging on dangerous! If you're getting cold and
    decide to put it on, and the zip gets stuck but because your hands are
    too cold you can't free it, it could make the difference in getting
    hypothermia.

    If the jacket is otherwise good, and given they're not giving them away,
    why not just replace the zip (or get someone else to do it if you're not
    happy with a sewing machine)?
    Bit of a waste otherwise...

    The problem is that because the fabric is so thin, the overlap easily
    gets caught in the zip. I new zip won't make a difference.

    Quoted message said:

    If you're relying on a Litespeed as the Ultimate Barrier against
    hypothermia conditions then I think a bit of kit review is probably in
    order!

    I thought I'd get a response from you, Peter!

    I'm not suggesting that the jacket should be relied upon - but given
    conditions where you're prepared for mild weather and it turns nasty, a
    working zip on a light jacket could make a difference. A few years back
    I spent a few days in bright cold conditions in the Cairgorms and got
    tinosinuvitus(sp?) in the back of my hands such that I had great
    difficulty with the zips on my Gortex jacket and the tent. It made me
    realise in that extreme conditions a simple injury like that could end
    up life threatening. Can't do up your jacket, you may get cold and wet -
    can't do up the tent zips and the wind may destroy it!

    Jim Ford

  14. Jim Ford said:

    The problem is that because the fabric is so thin, the overlap easily
    gets caught in the zip. I new zip won't make a difference.

    Ah, /that/ problem... When someone solves it, and one can zip up a well
    baffled sleeping bag without catching the zip (as well as the issues you
    note), they will save one hell of a lot of awkward moments!

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not suggesting that the jacket should be relied upon - but given
    conditions where you're prepared for mild weather and it turns nasty, a
    working zip on a light jacket could make a difference.

    In that case one of the overhead ones would make sense for you. Looks
    like you might be able to sell the jacket to David...

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  15. "Jim Ford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The problem is that because the fabric is so thin, the overlap easily
    gets caught in the zip. I new zip won't make a difference.

    I have to say I've had this problem even with Buffalos. I dont know whether
    they just try to make the same garment from less material or just arent
    careful enough but I spend more time sorting out jammed zips on mine than
    actually wearing it.

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