29ers

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike DeMicco

Quoted message said:

Is this all marketing hype, or will 29" wheels actually make you faster? I'm interested in A-B
comparisions over a timed course.

Well, they're heavier and weaker, but they roll over obstacles better. The answer? Depends on
the course.

Sorry,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is this all marketing hype, or will 29" wheels actually make you faster? I'm interested in A-B
comparisions over a timed course.

My brother bought a 29er a few months ago. he loves it. he also 'seems' faster....he can certainly
make rooty climbs better that i can (back wheel stays planted better). parts, tubes, etc are hard to
come by, however. i'm going to wait to see if it outlives the hype.

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike DeMicco

Quoted message said:

Is this all marketing hype, or will 29" wheels actually make you faster? I'm interested in A-B
comparisions over a timed course.

Quoted message said:

Well, they're heavier

Really?

Quoted message said:

and weaker,

And what independent data do you base this presumption upon?

--
John G. shavings.netsurvival.htmOpen ↗

ClydesdaleMTB said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike DeMicco

Quoted message said:

Is this all marketing hype, or will 29" wheels actually make you faster? I'm interested in A-B
comparisions over a timed course.

Quoted message said:

Well, they're heavier

Really?

Quoted message said:

and weaker,

And what independent data do you base this presumption upon?

Sorry to interject here, John. But how the hell are ya?

Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Is this all marketing hype, or will 29" wheels actually make you faster? I'm interested in A-B
comparisions over a timed course.

29" bikes are actually slower, especially in tigher single track situations. They are good for
conquering trail obstacles and mud riding though. I test rode a GF at a mtb festival this spring and
was pretty dissapointed with its performance. It was amazing to me that GF offered some of his more
popular hard tails for 2003 exclusively in the 29" format.

"ClydesdaleMTB" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, they're heavier

Really?

Larger + same materials = more weight

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and weaker,

And what independent data do you base this presumption upon?

Larger + same materials and construction = less strong.

The actual measured diff might not be much, but extrapolate it up and down. Would a 50" wheel be
heavier, and taco easier than a 10"?

Pete

Quoted message said:

Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Is this all marketing hype, or will 29" wheels actually make you faster? I'm interested in A-B
comparisions over a timed course.

29" bikes are actually slower, especially in tigher single track situations. They are good for
conquering trail obstacles and mud riding though. I test rode a GF at a mtb festival this spring
and was pretty dissapointed with its performance. It was amazing to me that GF offered some of his
more popular hard tails for 2003 exclusively in the 29" format.

29" bikes are not, in fact, actually slower.

As with any bike, it all boils down to geometry. One could make a 29er that is an absolute tank. Or,
as is the case with my Karate Monkey, you could dial in one to be a singletrack machine. In very
tight, twisty singletrack, the Karate Monkey is one of the better carvers I've been on. Quite nearly
rivaling my Merlin XLM in grin inducing, hang-it-all-out, carve-a-liscious handling joy.

But I've only been riding mine since Feb. so what do I know...

A

Pete said:

"ClydesdaleMTB" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, they're heavier

Really?

Larger + same materials = more weight

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and weaker,

And what independent data do you base this presumption upon?

Larger + same materials and construction = less strong.

The actual measured diff might not be much, but extrapolate it up and down. Would a 50" wheel be
heavier, and taco easier than a 10"?

Pete

This is why wheels should be built to purpose.

I have a set of 29" whells built up for fully rigid singlespeeding. I have every confidence in them.

Now if they were machine laced OEM [censored], then yup. I'd be skeered to ride em.

A

Quoted message said:

Mike DeMicco said:

Is this all marketing hype, or will 29" wheels actually make you faster? I'm interested in A-B
comparisions over a timed course.

29" bikes are actually slower, especially in tigher single track situations. They are good for
conquering trail obstacles and mud riding though. I test rode a GF at a mtb festival this spring
and was pretty dissapointed with its performance. It was amazing to me that GF offered some of his
more popular hard tails for 2003 exclusively in the 29" format.

I've ridden a couple different big-wheel bikes, and I ride with people who think they are absolutely
better. I don't own one, unless my Bianchi cyclocross bike counts, but I'd set up a Karate Monkey
tomorrow if I had a thousand dollars my wife didn't know about.

Did you ride the GF 292/293 (the fully based on the Sugar)?. I've ridden one of those, and I
wouldn't call it typical of the 29" bikes that are really leading the trend. The trend was created
by hardtails and rigid bikes. A 29-er can be set up to do tighter switchbacks and twisty stuff well.
It's a question of frame design. On some the good ones I've ridden, I didn't really notice that the
wheels were bigger than the ones on my Moots until I rolled through some rocky stuff.

The contact patch is automatically bigger, and it's more oblong than a similar width 26" tire. The
bikes corner very reliably in messy conditions, and when they take a drop-off the motion is less
dramatic. The advocates I know either rode 26 bikes for years before switching, or have both and
switch back and forth. They say that bigger wheels make having suspension (especially long-travel)
less of a requirement.

It helps if you are physically large enough to need a medium-large or larger frame. I know a couple
29 riders who are fairly small guys, and at least one of them has some toe overlap (wheel can hit
shoe toe if crank arm is facing straight forward and wheel is turned).

As for the GF 292, that bike is a tanker. Both because it's a fully and because of those big wheels.
I rode it (among other places) down a nasty rutted babyhead and loose gravel slope. It was
freakishly solid. I didn't like climbing with the big mama, but on the descent it was too damn easy.
Fist-sized rocks didn't even make it move. But full suspension is kind of a waste on a 29 IMO. Belt
and suspenders.

If you really want to know what a big wheel bike is like, try riding the '02 GF Procalibre 29 or
(better) a Surly Karate Monkey. If all you ride is smooth and buff, you probably won't get it.
--
Tom Purvis - arkansasvalley.nettpurvisOpen ↗ Salida, CO

"Anthony Sloan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is this all marketing hype, or will 29" wheels actually make you faster? I'm interested in A-B
comparisions over a timed course.

29" bikes are actually slower, especially in tigher single track situations. They are good for
conquering trail obstacles and mud riding though. I test rode a GF at a mtb festival this spring
and was pretty dissapointed with its performance. It was amazing to me that GF offered some of
his more popular hard tails for 2003 exclusively in the 29" format.

29" bikes are not, in fact, actually slower.

As with any bike, it all boils down to geometry.

I agree. (All other things being equal, of course.)

Quoted message said:

One could make a 29er that is an absolute tank. Or, as is the case with my Karate Monkey, you
could dial in one to be a singletrack machine. In very tight, twisty singletrack, the Karate
Monkey is one of the better carvers I've been on. Quite nearly rivaling my Merlin XLM in grin
inducing, hang-it-all-out, carve-a-liscious handling joy.

Stop it! You're making me want to order a Karate Monkey frameset right friggin' now!

Must....resist....impulse....purchase...

Quoted message said:

But I've only been riding mine since Feb. so what do I know...

:-)

-=B=-

Dave W said:

Sorry to interject here, John. But how the hell are ya?

Great! Just got back to TN from 4 days in NH, rode lots of sweet singletrack. Now it's back to
bustin' the bad guys.

Pete said:

"ClydesdaleMTB" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, they're heavier

Really?

Larger + same materials = more weight

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and weaker,

And what independent data do you base this presumption upon?

Larger + same materials and construction = less strong.

Quoted message said:

The actual measured diff might not be much, but extrapolate it up and down. Would a 50" wheel be
heavier, and taco easier than a 10"?

A competent framebuilder can overcome that...

next?

ClydedaleMTB_in_TN said:

Dave W said:

Sorry to interject here, John. But how the hell are ya?

Great! Just got back to TN from 4 days in NH, rode lots of sweet singletrack. Now it's back to
bustin' the bad guys.

Good job Clyde. i would think the beautiful singletrack is a great coping device. Glad you had a
chance to get some of the goods then. Nice to hear from ya'

Dave (that's cope-ing)

[email hidden] (Tom Purvis) wrote

Quoted message said:

The contact patch is automatically bigger, and it's more oblong than a similar width 26" tire.

Say again? I don't think a larger radius tire give you a bigger contact patch -- that's determined
entirely by the tire pressure.

The rest of what you had to say certainly seems very reasonable. I just couldn't let this one go
without comment.

CC

"ClydedaleMTB_in_TN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete said:

"ClydesdaleMTB" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

>Well, they're heavier
Really?

Larger + same materials = more weight

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>and weaker,
And what independent data do you base this presumption upon?

Larger + same materials and construction = less strong.

Quoted message said:

The actual measured diff might not be much, but extrapolate it up and

down.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would a 50" wheel be heavier, and taco easier than a 10"?

A competent framebuilder can overcome that...

next?

given equal materials, and equal construction, by the same competent builder.....

which is stronger?

Pete

Corvus Corvax said:

[email hidden] (Tom Purvis) wrote

Quoted message said:

The contact patch is automatically bigger, and it's more oblong than a similar width 26" tire.

Say again? I don't think a larger radius tire give you a bigger contact patch -- that's determined
entirely by the tire pressure.

The rest of what you had to say certainly seems very reasonable. I just couldn't let this one go
without comment.

CC

Of course, you are correct, Corvus. It does give a longer, but narrower contact patch (given
the same pressure). Is this better? I guess you could find conditions where a long skinny
contact patch is better than a shorter, wider one, and vice versa. In general, a larger
diameter wheel will have lower rolling resistance because of reduced tire carcass
deformation, and in general a wider tire will have reduced rolling resistance for the same
reason. Maybe, then, a 700x48c Mutanoraptor and a 26x2.4inch Mutanopator would have the same
resistance? Who knows. If 29ers are so great, why not 32ers? The 29inch (700c) proponents
say we should break free from the constraints of MTB history (cruiser tire size). On the
other hand, they are in favor of us using another historical wheel size (European road
bikes). This strikes me as odd.

Miles

[email hidden] (MTBlamerie) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The model I rode was the SuperCaliber, but maybe I'm wrong. It had the team GF paint job.
Anyway, I rode it at Vultures Knob, Ohio, which up to this point, was the absoloute most tight
and twisty single track I have ridden. The trails I ride are far from buff, tree roots and
fallen trees abound.

Just admit that you don't know [censored] about 29ers or mountain biking. Anthony has been riding his 29er
for more than enough time to tell the facts about his particular bike. This, accompanied by the fact
that he has been riding for many years and knows what World Class mountain bike trails are, you
don't have even one toe to stand on, howdie doodie.

I have ridden Vultures Knob and find your view of what it really is, a true testament to your lack
of knowledge and just how limited your "experience" really is. You are only kidding yourself.

JD

Corvus Corvax said:

[email hidden] (Tom Purvis) wrote

Quoted message said:

The contact patch is automatically bigger, and it's more oblong than a similar width 26" tire.

Say again? I don't think a larger radius tire give you a bigger contact patch -- that's determined
entirely by the tire pressure.

The rest of what you had to say certainly seems very reasonable. I just couldn't let this one go
without comment.

CC

I dunno diddly about contact patch, and I do suspect it is one of those bike tech things that could
be argued about endlessly on the internet. In the real world however, I have experienced this: On
loose choppy, ledgy climbs, I noticed immediately thst the rear wheel on the monkey hooked up a LOT
better than the 26" singlespeed I had been riding. Same trail, two days apart.

Could be patch, could be dynamics of a bigger wheel, but it certainly was kewl.

A

B. Sanders said:

Stop it! You're making me want to order a Karate Monkey frameset right friggin' now!

For your interest I will not say the following.

Karate Monkey. (F.U.S.S.Y compliant, mind you) 1x8 Bob Trailer Colorado Trail 4 days

There. See how nice I am?

A