Advice on fighting tickets?

In article <[email hidden]>,

J.M. Rudder said:

I currently have four outstanding tickets which I cannot possibly pay, due to poverty. I work
intermittently as a bike messenger, and received the tickets on two occasions. The first time, I
got three tickets for running three consecutive red lights, for a total of $800. The second time I
got a ticket from a bike cop for going the wrong way in a bike lane; I think it's for $40.

I have two upcoming DMV court dates to try and whittle down these insane charges. Does anyone have
any experience, any advice? Should I plead not guilty or guilty? Should I ask for a reduced amount?
Should I denounce what I see as the frivolity of the charges?

I suspect that you're not going to get a great deal of sympathy in this forum.... The types of
errors you describe (red-light running and especially wrong-way riding) are frequent contributors to
bicycle accidents--I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but what the heck were you riding in
wrong way in the bike lane for?

--Bruce Fields

J. Bruce Fields said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

J.M. Rudder said:

I currently have four outstanding tickets which I cannot possibly pay, due to poverty. I work
intermittently as a bike messenger, and received the tickets on two occasions. The first time, I
got three tickets for running three consecutive red lights, for a total of $800. The second time I
got a ticket from a bike cop for going the wrong way in a bike lane; I think it's for $40.

I have two upcoming DMV court dates to try and whittle down these insane charges. Does anyone have
any experience, any advice? Should I plead not guilty or guilty? Should I ask for a reduced
amount? Should I denounce what I see as the frivolity of the charges?

I suspect that you're not going to get a great deal of sympathy in this forum.... The types of
errors you describe (red-light running and especially wrong-way riding) are frequent contributors
to bicycle accidents--I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but what the heck were you riding in
wrong way in the bike lane for?

--Bruce Fields

I've never tried bike messaging, but it sounds to me to be the cost of doing business. Truckers face
a similar dilemma - it's VERY hard to make a profit by following the rules. If you need to break the
rules to get the job done economically, then you might well be in the wrong business.

You might be able to argue the specifics of each case. If there were no cars present, then what was
the real harm with running a red light? In the case of the wrong-way in the bike lane, that sounds
like a real cheesy violation. I even do it for short periods based on traffic and my schedule.

The best approach might be to prepare a LONG list of talking points and sit down with the traffic
judge fully prepared to earnestly and persuasively talk his ears off for as long as it takes to get
him to yawn with boredom and dismiss the tickets for a small fine. It worked for me with the last
(auto) speeding ticket I got: $15 and no points, no insurance hike. Many years ago.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

J.M. Rudder said:

I currently have four outstanding tickets which I cannot possibly pay, due to poverty. I work
intermittently as a bike messenger, and received the tickets on two occasions. The first time, I
got three tickets for running three consecutive red lights, for a total of $800. The second time I
got a ticket from a bike cop for going the wrong way in a bike lane; I think it's for $40.

I have two upcoming DMV court dates to try and whittle down these insane charges. Does anyone
have any experience, any advice? Should I plead not guilty or guilty? Should I ask for a
reduced amount?

Some jurisdictions have reduced fines for bicycle offensives (a recent California law allows them to
do this.) The rationale was that the police sometimes won't ticket cyclists if the officer thinks
the fine is excessive, so the reduced fines might lead to more enforcement.

Otherwise don't expect any sympathy from this group. A lot of us have had close calls with
bicyclists riding the wrong way or running red lights.

Quoted message said:

Should I denounce what I see as the frivolity of the charges?

If you are in real bad financial shape, by all means denounce the frivolity of the charges and
refuse to pay. Flip off the judge as well. He will then arrange free housing, with meals, although
you might find the living arrangments a tad spartan, and might not like your new neighbors.

To be serious, you might want to plead guilty and tell the judge that you are destitute, providing
some documentation to prove that. Make sure he knows you were not driving a motor vehicle, since the
risk that imposes to others is higher. Also, bicycle offenses do not incur DMV points that could
result in you losing your driver's license, so you need to make sure that is recorded properly.

Bill
--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

=v= It all comes down to the sympathy of the judge.

=v= One possibility hinges on the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.
If, say, you work in a downtown area where cars routinely "make" the lights by running them, a case
could be made that the ticketing officers are not enforcing the law fairly. <_Jym_

I would throw myself on the mercy of the court.

The argument is that it is really unfair to apply a law designed to prevent motorists from killing
other citizens to a cyclist who poses a small threat of maybe causing an accident.

Here is the way I would say it.

I don't really want to run red lights. I know this puts me at risk, and I have no health insurance.
But I am only a poor bike messenger trying to make a living.

I do know that the worst my behavior could do is possibly cause an accident. I know that when a
motorist runs a red light, they could easily kill another driver or pedestrian, or me. That is why
running red lights carries heavy fines - for motorists.

It would be hard to argue that my red light running posed 10% the threat that a motorists does, and
the threat of getting hit by a car is already a big fine. So why should I get 100% of the fine that
a guy flying through an intersection in a Hummer would?

There is a long standing tradition in our legal system - that the punishment should fit the crime.
Even traffic law is made that way. That is why you pay higher fines for speeding more. Running a red
light in a car threatens the life and limb of other citizens tenfold more than I do.

I do understand that I did a dangerous thing, and have cost our community to handle the situation.
Therefore I ask to have the sentenced reduced to 10% of the traffic fines, plus processing fees.
This is $1??, a pretty significant fine for someone who threatens others with a 25 pound bike
instead of a 2,500 pound car or 5,000 pound SUV.

You might feel like making an issue out of it and inviting the press. Remember to speak in catch
sound bytes like "make the punishment fit the crime" or I pose 10% of the threat a car does, why do
I get 100% of the fine?

"J.M. Rudder" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I currently have four outstanding tickets which I cannot possibly pay, due to poverty. I work
intermittently as a bike messenger, and received the tickets on two occasions. The first time, I
got three tickets for running three consecutive red lights, for a total of $800. The second time I
got a ticket from a bike cop for going the wrong way in a bike lane; I think

it's

Quoted message said:

for $40.

I have two upcoming DMV court dates to try and whittle down these insane charges. Does anyone have
any experience, any advice? Should I plead not guilty or guilty? Should I ask for a reduced
amount? Should I denounce

what

Quoted message said:

I see as the frivolity of the charges?

J.M.

Bill Z. said:

Otherwise don't expect any sympathy from this group. A lot of us have had close calls with
bicyclists riding the wrong way or running red lights.

I've had more close calls with cars running red lights than bicycles. Bike riders tend not to run
red lights unless it's clear I don't recall ever having a close call with a bike running a red
light. I've had lots with cars though. Car drivers run red lights because they're not paying
attention or they think they can make it when they really can't or they just don't give a
[censored]--people will stop for them (this last one is especially common at left turn arrows).

Wrong way riders though, really [censored] me off both on my bike and in my car.

--Bill Davidson
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Support the Electronic Frontier Foundation eff.orgeff.orgOpen ↗ Petition Congress to stop the RIAA
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Bill Davidson said:

Bill Z. said:

Otherwise don't expect any sympathy from this group. A lot of us have had close calls with
bicyclists riding the wrong way or running red lights.

I've had more close calls with cars running red lights than bicycles. Bike riders tend not to run
red lights unless it's clear I don't recall ever having a close call with a bike running a red
light. I've had lots with cars though. Car drivers run red lights because they're not paying
attention or they think they can make it when they really can't or they just don't give a
[censored]--people will stop for them (this last one is especially common at left turn arrows).

Wrong way riders though, really [censored] me off both on my bike and in my car.

--Bill Davidson

I've probably had a lot more problems with bike running red lights than you do, which reflects the
large number of people using them in my area (I'm close to a major university in an area with good
weather, and the town I'm in has a national reputation for being bicycle friendly.)

Bill

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

Bill Z. said:

I've probably had a lot more problems with bike running red lights than you do, which reflects the
large number of people using them in my area

That may be.

Quoted message said:

(I'm close to a major university in an area with good weather, and the town I'm in has a national
reputation for being bicycle friendly.)

So am I.

I see people on bikes run red lights all the time but as I said, they tend to do it when it's clear.
I don't see the close calls for that. It's still not a good thing but it's not as bad as the
frequent car drivers I see running red lights (which I also see all the time). There's one spot I
know where the cars regularly go against a red light on a left arrow 10-20 seconds after the arrow
turns red. Cars going the other way start because they have a green and then they have to stop about
three feet into the intersection to wait for 5-10 more cars to go through. Ironically, this
interesection is less than a quarter mile from a CHP station. It's on my regular route and it's
always the same.

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

Support the Electronic Frontier Foundation eff.orgeff.orgOpen ↗ Petition Congress to stop the RIAA
lawsuits eff.orgpetitionOpen ↗

Bill Davidson said:

Bill Z. said:

I've probably had a lot more problems with bike running red lights than you do, which reflects
the large number of people using them in my area

That may be.

Quoted message said:

(I'm close to a major university in an area with good weather, and the town I'm in has a
national reputation for being bicycle friendly.)

So am I.

I see people on bikes run red lights all the time but as I said, they tend to do it when it's
clear. I don't see the close calls for that.

Watch what happens at night (they don't use lights, either) or when they shoot out past a monster
SUV. Or the guys on the sidewalk who come out of nowhere due to buildings obstructing the view until
the last second.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

"J.M. Rudder" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I currently have four outstanding tickets which I cannot possibly pay, due to poverty. I work
intermittently as a bike messenger, and received the tickets on two occasions. The first time,
I got three tickets for running three consecutive red lights, for a total of $800. The second
time I got a

huh?!? the cop let you run "...three consecutive red lights" before citing you? if i cared, i'd
look into this flaw into the police's behavior but since i don't and you do, maybe you should.
(the police can't just follow you around and tally up the violations. if you're a hazard to
society, it's needs to be addressed immediately.)

Quoted message said:

ticket from a bike cop for going the wrong way in a bike lane; I think it's for $40.

if your local bike cops are as incompetent as the ones here, you
could note that they routinely violate this law; got a dig camera?

Quoted message said:

I have two upcoming DMV court dates to try and whittle down these insane charges. Does anyone have
any experience, any advice? Should I plead not guilty or guilty? Should I ask for a reduced
amount? Should I denounce what I see as the frivolity of the charges?

IHMO, "No!". you gotta stroke the dude in black's attitude (even if they're not real judges
like here).

In article <[email hidden]>, the robotic servitors of Jym Dyer <[email hidden]> rose
up with the following chant:

Quoted message said:

=v= It all comes down to the sympathy of the judge.

=v= One possibility hinges on the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment to the
Constitution. If, say, you work in a downtown area where cars routinely "make" the lights by
running them, a case could be made that the ticketing officers are not enforcing the law fairly.

Yeah, but the judge would have to be awfully sympathetic to buy that one -or you'll need a really
good lawyer who can find a time when a judge in your jurisdiction actually bought it. Any policeman
who's there will just say, limited ability to enforce a law is no excuse not to obey a law.

-------- Scott Eiler B{D> -------- eilertech.comeilertech.comOpen ↗ --------

"It seemed an unlikely spot for a sensitive songwriter from Greenwich Village... She ordered
the 20-ounce steak." -- Lin Brehmer, Chicago DJ, describing his meeting in a steakhouse with
Suzanne Vega.

Bill Z. wrote: ...

Quoted message said:

If you are in real bad financial shape, by all means denounce the frivolity of the charges and
refuse to pay. Flip off the judge as well. He will then arrange free housing, with meals, although
you might find the living arrangments a tad spartan, and might not like your new neighbors. ...

Worth highlighting, IMHO

--Karen M.

I must say, I am utterly perplexed by the derisive comments my posting has received in this forum.
The judgments that many of you have jumped to, given the rather scant details of my tickets with
which I provided the forum, do not read as those I would expect from fellow cyclists. Perhaps many
of you do not realize how unfriendly the streets of New York City are to cyclists. Perhaps you are
susceptible to the "bad rep" that is often ascribed to messengers. Perhaps you dislike someone
calling himself "poor" (I can assure you, all bike messengers in NYC are living near the poverty
line). Or perhaps or if I had provided a few other details, the negative responses may nave been a
bit more restrained. E.g.: the events took place early in the morning; the events took place on
streets with ZERO car traffic; I was moving across the intersections at no more than 5mph; if I had
really been a clear danger, the cops would have pulled me over after the first red light; in NYC,
cyclists have always used the few bike lanes in both directions, because for one thing it is almost
unknown that is against the law (I didn't even know until this ticket, and I've been riding here for
many years), and for another thing, there are so few bike lanes that they automatically draw cyclist
looking for safe routes. Generally, bikers slow down as they approaching each other from opposite
directions, and the wrong-way rider takes the inside.

This city should be going out of its way to sponsor bike riding, to aid riders, and even to reward
riders. We cut traffic, reduce air pollution, and activate public space. If cyclists don't stand
together against unfair laws, dangerous motor vehicles, and the theft of roads for inefficient uses,
than cycling will never become the powerful mode of transportation it should be.

Having said all that - please continue to shower me with your
"you-won't-get-any-sympathy-here" comments.

J.M.

in article [email hidden], Karen M. at [email hidden]
wrote on 9/30/03 12:37 PM:

Quoted message said:

Bill Z. wrote: ...

Quoted message said:

If you are in real bad financial shape, by all means denounce the frivolity of the charges and
refuse to pay. Flip off the judge as well. He will then arrange free housing, with meals,
although you might find the living arrangments a tad spartan, and might not like your new
neighbors. ...

Worth highlighting, IMHO

--Karen M.

In article <[email hidden]>,

J.M. Rudder said:

Generally, bikers slow down as they approaching each other from opposite directions, and the
wrong-way rider takes the inside.

The problem with wrong-way riding isn't with oncoming traffic--you and the oncoming rider can see
each other clearly enough, so you'll figure something out--the problem is with traffic crossing your
path. A car pulling out from a driveway, or a pedestrian crossing the street is going to have their
head turned away from you, watching for traffic where they expect to see it, and is going to miss
you entirely. In many situations it's also quite difficult for you to anticipate that this is about
to happen (pedestrian stepping out from behind a parked car, driver alongside you in the opposite
lane making a left turn, etc.).

One frequently cited study on the relative risks of right- versus wrong- way cycling:

bicyclinglife.comriskfactors.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

This city should be going out of its way to sponsor bike riding, to aid riders, and even to reward
riders. We cut traffic, reduce air pollution, and activate public space. If cyclists don't stand
together against unfair laws, dangerous motor vehicles, and the theft of roads for inefficient
uses, than cycling will never become the powerful mode of transportation it should be.

Completely agreed.

Quoted message said:

Having said all that - please continue to shower me with your "you-won't-get-any-sympathy-here"
comments.

Sure, no problem. All part of the fun of usenet....--Bruce Fields

J.M., the response you received was actually better than I would have expected. With rare exception,
you will find that it is only the most self-righteous of cyclists who frequent the internet, and
their reason for responding to you was to show everyone how well they claim to behave and what
good people they are. They have actually managed to delude themselves that if every cyclist
behaved like a sweet little angel that harassment from motorists would instantly end. It's what
promotes the "if you got hit by a motorist you probably weren't visible and you weren't wearing
a helmet so it's probably your fault anyway" attitude often seen here. It's hilarious!

Regarding fighting the tickets: I don't have any useful advice but I hope you will be able to
explain the circumstances sufficiently to get the three identical tickets reduced to just one. Let's
face it though: you're a lowly bike messenger. The judge probably drives downtown frequently. The
legal system preys on the poor.

I wish you luck.

--
Chris Bird

JM,

I've stayed out of this so far, but this deserves a response.

...stuff deleted

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you are susceptible to the "bad rep" that is often ascribed to messengers. Perhaps you
dislike someone calling himself "poor" (I can

assure

Quoted message said:

you, all bike messengers in NYC are living near the poverty line).

I've been poor and had to travel by bike (or walk) while in college. While there, I found no
occasion where poverty was a valid excuse for ignoring traffic laws (though my desire to get
somewhere more quickly seemed adequate at the time). I have no bias against bike messengers and
prefer them to the double-parked trucks that block up city streets and cause much of the congestion.
I have no idea how you ride or whether you conform to whatever stereotype the world has about bike
messengers. Frankly, your disregard for the traffic laws doesn't do much to foster a positive
feeling about same.

Quoted message said:

E.g.: the events took place early in the morning; the events took place on

streets with ZERO car traffic; I was

Quoted message said:

moving across the intersections at no more than 5mph; if I had really been

a

Quoted message said:

clear danger, the cops would have pulled me over after the first red

light.

While you may have had, in your opinion, a justification for cycling as you did, the fact is that
you were in violation of the law. Perhaps you should have considered whether you can afford to do
the penalty before viloating same.

Quoted message said:

in NYC, cyclists have always used the few bike lanes in both directions, because for one thing it
is almost unknown that is against the law (I

didn't

Quoted message said:

even know until this ticket, and I've been riding here for many years),

a) ignorance of the law is not an excuse
b) how can anyone be so ignorant that they don't know that riding the wrong direction on the road is
illegal unless otherwise posted?

Quoted message said:

and for another thing, there are so few bike lanes that they automatically

draw

Quoted message said:

cyclist looking for safe routes. Generally, bikers slow down as they approaching each other from
opposite directions, and the wrong-way rider takes the inside.

The presence, or lack thereof, of bike lanes does not, in any way, mean you can or cannot cycle on a
road. I prefer roads that don't have bike lanes because drivers have no clue how to negotiate them,
nor is there a described protocol in the manuals on what drivers should do when approaching an
intersection where bike and vehicular lanes merge.

Quoted message said:

This city should be going out of its way to sponsor bike riding, to aid riders, and even to reward
riders. We cut traffic, reduce air pollution,

and

Quoted message said:

activate public space. If cyclists don't stand together against unfair

laws,

Quoted message said:

dangerous motor vehicles, and the theft of roads for inefficient uses,

than

Quoted message said:

cycling will never become the powerful mode of transportation it should

be.

Quoted message said:

All valid points about the advantages of bikes, but still not a valid reason for these violations.
Even when bicycles are the only mode of transportation allowed to the general public (such as on the
UC Davis campus), the rules don't change simply because the vehicles are bicycles. You can, and do,
receive tickets for vehicular violations on campus. Sadly, they've added a speed limit as well (for
which I, amongst other strong riders, are probably responsible as we used to ride on campus well in
excess of 25 MPH). Frankly, I might have difficulty obeying this one, though my speed is definitely
not what it was 25 years ago.

Quoted message said:

Having said all that - please continue to shower me with your "you-won't-get-any-sympathy-here"
comments.

Sorry, but if you want sympathy, you came to the wrong place (as far as I am concerned). Were I the
judge, I would consider your poverty and offer you a chance to pick up litter in your copious free
time. If the lights were non-functional, perhaps you could well have made a case that you waited,
found they did not respond to your bike, and then proceded when it was safe. Riding through them
slowly isn't particularly admirable, by the way. If you are traveling at 5 MPH, what possible reason
is there not to stop? It's not like it would cost you a appreciable amount of time. My feelings are
that you are either lying about riding slowly, or lying about being a bike messenger. I've seen same
and none of them, even when walking their bikes from sidewalk to street are moving at only 5 MPH.

Rick

...stuff deleted

Quoted message said:

They have actually managed to delude themselves that if every cyclist

behaved like a sweet little

Quoted message said:

angel that harassment from motorists would instantly end.

Chris,

This is pure horsepucky. We all are very aware that poor drivers are a considerable problem on the
road. Then again, so are poor cyclists. The system only works when the majority of people obey the
traffic laws. When this begins to fall apart, accidents and death are a direct result. On the other
side, I have generally positive experiences with motorists while others generally have negative
ones. The rider has considerably more control over the car/bike interaction than many would believe.

Quoted message said:

It's what promotes the "if you got hit by a motorist you probably weren't visible and you weren't
wearing a helmet so it's probably your fault anyway" attitude often seen here. It's hilarious!

Again, you are reading something that I've never seen posted in the many years of reading this
newsgroup. Are there things riders can do to reduce the odds of being in a car/bike collision?
Definitely. Will they always be effective? Definitely not. What those of us who advocate safe
cycling practices do is suggest that, perhaps, an individuals difficulties with traffic might not be
as one-sided as they believe. This poster, for example, described generally anti-social cycling
behavior and is weeping about how the laws shouldn't apply to him. This is indefensible and I expect
the judge, and majority of those who cycle, will agree with me.

...stuff deleted

Quoted message said:

Let's face it though: you're a lowly bike messenger. The judge probably

drives

Quoted message said:

downtown frequently. The legal system preys on the poor.

Sadly, this is true. Some judges, however, do have a conscience and will not post a fine that is an
undue hardship for misdemeanors. Sadly, this is a matter of luck in the choice of judges.

Rick

"J.M. Rudder" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I must say, I am utterly perplexed by the derisive comments my posting has received in this forum.

Then you must not read it much ;-).

Quoted message said:

Perhaps many of you do not realize how unfriendly the streets of New York City are to cyclists.

I'm no messenger, but I have logged a few thousand miles in Manhattan and environs, so I feel
relatively qualified to comment.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you are susceptible to the "bad rep" that is often ascribed to messengers.

Personally, I fall into the "hero worship" category with respect to messengers.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you dislike someone calling himself "poor" (I can assure you, all bike messengers in NYC
are living near the poverty line).

No doubt.

Quoted message said:

E.g.: the events took place early in the morning; the events took place on streets with ZERO car
traffic; I was moving across the intersections at no more than 5mph;

This is where my [censored] meter starts to rise. I don't know the facts of the circumstance, but that
doesn't mean I don't have healthy doubts about your description of them. This sounds altogether too
self-serving to me.

Quoted message said:

if I had really been a clear danger, the cops would have pulled me over after the first red light;

Letting you run a bunch of red lights and then ticketing you for all of them is, of course, absurd
and an abuse of authority. Nothing new there with respect to the NYPD and cyclists. I can't count
the number of times I have run a red light in NYC right in front of a cop. I don't think twice about
it. But when the PD gets on one of their periodic enforcement kicks, they'll hit you for not having
a bell. Or do what they did to you.

Quoted message said:

in NYC, cyclists have always used the few bike lanes in both directions, because for one thing it
is almost unknown that is against the law (I didn't even know until this ticket, and I've been
riding here for many years),

Now the [censored] meter is pegged. Everybody _I_ know knows that riding against traffic, especially
in a damn bike lane, is illegal and dangerous to yourself and others. Most particularly _me_,
because I have to pick between risking a head-on with some clueless dork or executing an unexpected
swerve into, say, heavy traffic on Hudson. Neither of which are very good for one's health.

Quoted message said:

for another thing, there are so few bike lanes that they automatically draw cyclist looking for
safe routes. Generally, bikers slow down as they approaching each other from opposite directions,
and the wrong-way rider takes the inside.

See above. Are you really a messenger, or are you a wanna-be? You seem to have all of these weird
ideas about "customs" in NYC that AFAIK don't exist anywhere but in your mind.

Quoted message said:

This city should be going out of its way to sponsor bike riding, to aid riders, and even to reward
riders. We cut traffic, reduce air pollution, and activate public space. If cyclists don't stand
together against unfair laws, dangerous motor vehicles, and the theft of roads for inefficient
uses, than cycling will never become the powerful mode of transportation it should be.

True. But laws against running red lights or riding against traffic aren't exactly "unfair", I'm
afraid. Even in NYC. What _is_ more than just unfair is selective enforcement of said laws with
ulterior motives in mind, which is commonplace.

Quoted message said:

Having said all that - please continue to shower me with your "you-won't-get-any-sympathy-here"
comments.

I think the "throw yourself on the mercy of the court" idea sounds best to me.

CC

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I currently have four outstanding tickets which I cannot possibly pay, due to poverty. I work
intermittently as a bike messenger, and received the tickets on two occasions. The first time, I
got three tickets for running three consecutive red lights, for a total of $800. The second time I
got a ticket from a bike cop for going the wrong way in a bike lane; I think it's for $40.

I have two upcoming DMV court dates to try and whittle down these insane charges. Does anyone have
any experience, any advice? Should I plead not guilty or guilty? Should I ask for a reduced amount?
Should I denounce what I see as the frivolity of the charges?

What city?
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)