MasterLock "Street Cuff"

Freewheeling said:

Hi:

I just ordered and received a Master Lock "Street Cuff" from Amazon
for $49.95 (Prod.#: 8290DPS), and much to my chagrin it turns out that
the thing has TUBULAR LOCKS! You know, the kind that can be picked
with a Bic pen? I'm pretty angry. Apparently, I can return the item
to Amazon for a refund, so I'm OK there except for a little
inconvenience. I know that Kryptonite had a recall of all their
tubular locks as a result of a class-action, so it boggles my mind
that someone is still selling these things.

I thought it was only the evolution from kryptonite that suffered with
this bic pen pick?

Hadron Quark said:

Freewheeling said:

Hi:

I just ordered and received a Master Lock "Street Cuff" from Amazon
for $49.95 (Prod.#: 8290DPS), and much to my chagrin it turns out that
the thing has TUBULAR LOCKS! You know, the kind that can be picked
with a Bic pen? I'm pretty angry. Apparently, I can return the item
to Amazon for a refund, so I'm OK there except for a little
inconvenience. I know that Kryptonite had a recall of all their
tubular locks as a result of a class-action, so it boggles my mind
that someone is still selling these things.

I thought it was only the evolution from kryptonite that suffered with
this bic pen pick?

Pretty much all of the models. They used to have a message on the site
and you could look up your model and find the new-non-tubular
replacement, at which point you go through some rigmarole and they'd
send a new one. That's why I was sort of floored to see this
newly-purchased lock with a tubular lock core. Just wanted to find out
if it has been improved, or if these idiots are still selling the old
version. It's actually a little easier to open them with a pen than the
key, but I'm reluctant to open the package to test this one because I'm
afraid I'll then not be able to return it.

Freewheeling said:

Hadron Quark said:

Freewheeling said:

Hi:

I just ordered and received a Master Lock "Street Cuff" from Amazon
for $49.95 (Prod.#: 8290DPS), and much to my chagrin it turns out that
the thing has TUBULAR LOCKS! You know, the kind that can be picked
with a Bic pen? I'm pretty angry. Apparently, I can return the item
to Amazon for a refund, so I'm OK there except for a little
inconvenience. I know that Kryptonite had a recall of all their
tubular locks as a result of a class-action, so it boggles my mind
that someone is still selling these things.

I thought it was only the evolution from kryptonite that suffered with
this bic pen pick?

Pretty much all of the models. They used to have a message on the site
and you could look up your model and find the new-non-tubular
replacement, at which point you go through some rigmarole and they'd
send a new one. That's why I was sort of floored to see this
newly-purchased lock with a tubular lock core. Just wanted to find out
if it has been improved, or if these idiots are still selling the old
version. It's actually a little easier to open them with a pen than the
key, but I'm reluctant to open the package to test this one because I'm
afraid I'll then not be able to return it.

Expect Master to be clueless. First off, they must be aware of the
tubular-key issue, since they've come out with a flat-key lock in
response. This doesn't mean that they understand their customers,
however. I bought one of their flat-key U-locks a while back for my
daughter to use, and when I tried to get additional keys for it,
Master told me that they were not available, and tried to cast this as
a "feature". There's a review of that lock on Amazon from me as a
result.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Freewheeling said:

Hadron Quark said:

Freewheeling <[email hidden]> writes:

> Hi:
>
> I just ordered and received a Master Lock "Street Cuff" from Amazon
> for $49.95 (Prod.#: 8290DPS), and much to my chagrin it turns out that
> the thing has TUBULAR LOCKS! You know, the kind that can be picked
> with a Bic pen? I'm pretty angry. Apparently, I can return the item
> to Amazon for a refund, so I'm OK there except for a little
> inconvenience. I know that Kryptonite had a recall of all their
> tubular locks as a result of a class-action, so it boggles my mind
> that someone is still selling these things.
>
I thought it was only the evolution from kryptonite that suffered with
this bic pen pick?

Pretty much all of the models. They used to have a message on the site
and you could look up your model and find the new-non-tubular
replacement, at which point you go through some rigmarole and they'd
send a new one. That's why I was sort of floored to see this
newly-purchased lock with a tubular lock core. Just wanted to find out
if it has been improved, or if these idiots are still selling the old
version. It's actually a little easier to open them with a pen than the
key, but I'm reluctant to open the package to test this one because I'm
afraid I'll then not be able to return it.

Expect Master to be clueless. First off, they must be aware of the
tubular-key issue, since they've come out with a flat-key lock in
response. This doesn't mean that they understand their customers,
however. I bought one of their flat-key U-locks a while back for my
daughter to use, and when I tried to get additional keys for it,
Master told me that they were not available, and tried to cast this as
a "feature". There's a review of that lock on Amazon from me as a
result.

Still can't figure out if this lock is pickable. I couldn't pick it
with a Bic, but it's not clear that a slightly larger tube wouldn't
work. The lock has different features that a regular tubular lock too.
The center pops up when it's unlocked so that you can close the hasp
and then just push the center down like a button to lock it. But that
doesn't mean it's necessarily secure. It might just be the same old bad
design with features.

You know, the funny thing is that I can't seem to find anyone who knows.
It's like people have already forgotten about the Bic pen trick with
tubular locks, except for the bike thieves of course. Maybe I should
attend a bike thief convention.

Anyway, thanks for the input.

On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:31:25 -0400, Freewheeling
<[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

Still can't figure out if this lock is pickable. I couldn't pick it
with a Bic, but it's not clear that a slightly larger tube wouldn't
work. The lock has different features that a regular tubular lock too.
The center pops up when it's unlocked so that you can close the hasp
and then just push the center down like a button to lock it. But that
doesn't mean it's necessarily secure. It might just be the same old bad
design with features.

Master Lock is named in a class action suit regarding their locks:
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4739
Oct 02, '04

http://www.epinions.com/content_161032146564
Nov 08 '04

For those of you wondering if the Street Cuffs can be picked with a
Bic pen:

"There have been media reports regarding lock with tubular cylinders
being opened with common household items. Master Lock's Street Cuff
has a patented, proprietary tubular cylinder that provides maximum
security. Your readers can use the Cuff with confidence. Master
stands behind the product with a $3500 antitheft guarantee. Should a
bicycle secured with a Cuff be stolen, Master Lock will reimburse the
purchase price up to $3500.

Sincerely,
e-Commerce Team
Master Lock Company"

That statement doesn't say their locks are immune to the Bic pick.
There was a series of "Bike Guard" locks I was unable to pick with
the Bic yet had no problem opening two different Kryptonites and
assorted generic U-Locks. I was experimenting, not thieving.

You might want to try this hack on your Street Cuffs:

http://www.engadget.com/2004/09/14/kryptonite-evolution-2000-u-lock-hacked-by-a-bic-pen/#c727373

"To pick a master lock (maybe not all) with an aluminum can. You need
a knife or sissors to cut the can. Make a "key" similar to an E but
without the top and bottom bar. "|-" is kind of what it would look
like. Then you hug the metal loop and sneak the "-" part into the
body, turn around and if you are lucky you can pull the "U" portion
of the lock and open it up. Without gloves you might cut your fingers
on the thin metal"
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:31:25 -0400, Freewheeling
<[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

Still can't figure out if this lock is pickable. I couldn't pick it
with a Bic, but it's not clear that a slightly larger tube wouldn't
work. The lock has different features that a regular tubular lock too.
The center pops up when it's unlocked so that you can close the hasp
and then just push the center down like a button to lock it. But that
doesn't mean it's necessarily secure. It might just be the same old bad
design with features.

Master Lock is named in a class action suit regarding their locks:
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4739
Oct 02, '04

http://www.epinions.com/content_161032146564
Nov 08 '04

For those of you wondering if the Street Cuffs can be picked with a
Bic pen:

"There have been media reports regarding lock with tubular cylinders
being opened with common household items. Master Lock's Street Cuff
has a patented, proprietary tubular cylinder that provides maximum
security. Your readers can use the Cuff with confidence. Master
stands behind the product with a $3500 antitheft guarantee. Should a
bicycle secured with a Cuff be stolen, Master Lock will reimburse the
purchase price up to $3500.

Sincerely,
e-Commerce Team
Master Lock Company"

That statement doesn't say their locks are immune to the Bic pick.
There was a series of "Bike Guard" locks I was unable to pick with
the Bic yet had no problem opening two different Kryptonites and
assorted generic U-Locks. I was experimenting, not thieving.

You might want to try this hack on your Street Cuffs:

http://www.engadget.com/2004/09/14/kryptonite-evolution-2000-u-lock-hacked-by-a-bic-pen/#c727373

"To pick a master lock (maybe not all) with an aluminum can. You need
a knife or sissors to cut the can. Make a "key" similar to an E but
without the top and bottom bar. "|-" is kind of what it would look
like. Then you hug the metal loop and sneak the "-" part into the
body, turn around and if you are lucky you can pull the "U" portion
of the lock and open it up. Without gloves you might cut your fingers
on the thin metal"

Thanks:

So far the Bic Trick hasn't worked, and I've tried it with various sizes
of tubes. Basically they have a number of cams that prevent one from
inserting the tube in the circle. I can't imagine a theif actually
using the aluminum can trick, at least on a short term locking scenario,
and I don't plan to leave the bike out overnight because given that sort
of time practically any kind of locking system can be compromised. But
it worst comes to worst at least I'll get $3500 out of the deal.

Freewheeling said:

So far the Bic Trick hasn't worked, and I've tried it with various sizes
of tubes. Basically they have a number of cams that prevent one from
inserting the tube in the circle. I can't imagine a theif actually
using the aluminum can trick, at least on a short term locking scenario,
and I don't plan to leave the bike out overnight because given that sort
of time practically any kind of locking system can be compromised. But
it worst comes to worst at least I'll get $3500 out of the deal.

The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.

There's probably something about proving the lock was comprimised. If
the bike is gone and the lock is there without obvious damage you may
be PSOL.
--
zk

Freewheeling said:

Hi:

I just ordered and received a Master Lock "Street Cuff" from Amazon for
$49.95 (Prod.#: 8290DPS), and much to my chagrin it turns out that the
thing has TUBULAR LOCKS! You know, the kind that can be picked with a
Bic pen? I'm pretty angry. Apparently, I can return the item to Amazon
for a refund, so I'm OK there except for a little inconvenience. I
know that Kryptonite had a recall of all their tubular locks as a result
of a class-action, so it boggles my mind that someone is still selling
these things.

I've sent a request for information to the MasterLock company, but if
they're foolish enough to be selling unmodified tubular locks they may
not know their ear from a hole in the ground. The size of the lock core
seems to be a little bigger than a conventional tubular lock and there
seem to be pressure bearings. The size wouldn't be much help since one
could simply use a slightly larger pen. If this is an improved
evolution of the tubular lock design maybe I won't bother sending it
back, and I'll just use the thing.

Anyone know?

Or is MasterLock still selling a useless device for $50 to $100? Same can be done with real handcuffs.

Freewheeling said:

Anyone know?

Not all tubular locks are easily pickable.

They can all be picked, but not easily using the bic pen / tube trick.

A well designed lock of that design is actually pretty good.

--
Doug Herr
doug*at*wombatz*dot*com

Doug Herr said:

Freewheeling said:

Anyone know?

Not all tubular locks are easily pickable.

They can all be picked, but not easily using the bic pen / tube trick.

A well designed lock of that design is actually pretty good.

And, of course, it could come in handy if I ever have to restrain a giant.