squealing brakes

Randy Smith said:

In essentially every case, the mechanic fixes it for a week, after which it starts howling again.
It's been towed in, towed-in backwards, rim roughened up with emery cloth, etc. I've tried to
minimize the howl myself, with roughly the same results.

Emery cloth usually works but riding through a long mud puddle slowly, with the brake applied
moderately, is far better because it cleans the rim and the brake pad at the same time.

Quoted message said:

I've had this problem for basically as long as I have owned the bike (which is otherwise
trouble free).

It could be the brake and it could be its adjustment. If you remove the brake arms from their
pivots, clean them, grease the pivots, and adjust the axial clearance to as small as you can without
binding, you've done all you can.

Quoted message said:

It definitely howls *more* in the morning when the rim may be a little damp from dew, although I
can get a howl pretty much anytime.

Yes, that is common, but once you've braked hard down a hill the rim will be about as dry as it gets
and I get the impression that that does not get rid of the squeal.

Quoted message said:

At this point, I've pretty well convinced myself that no amount of adjustment will stop the squeal
and that something needs to be replaced. Is it possible for howling to be caused only by "bad"
brake pads or a "bad" rim?

The most important part is the brake pad although the best pads can squeal. Get Kool Stop Salmon-red
pads. You ought to be able to find them at any good bike shop but don't get red pads. See:

sheldonbrown.combrakeshoes.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

If I decide to get new brakes, am I throwing my money away? Would a rim be a better choice,
etc, etc.

Fix the brake you have, unless it is a cheap model for which there is a better one.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I've got a fairly basic "mountain" bike (Univega 305Rover) that I have used for transportation on
and off (and now quite regularly) for the past 4 years. It works great, but the trouble is that
the front V-brake just *howls*.

what model of brakes? this makes a difference!

some of the "parallel push" models like shimano xt are well known for this noise. shimano recommend
a different pad material as one method of quieting. see bike.shimano.comfaq.aspOpen ↗
for details.

i can also verify that a brake booster works. i bought a salsa booster for a frame which it did not
fit, so ended up using it on my commuter. all squeal instantly disappeared - no adjustment of
anything - just fitting the longer bolts and the booster.

jb

Randy Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

First time posting to this group. So, if i'm posting to wrong group, etc., please politely tell me
where to get the right information and I'll gladly move on.

I've got a fairly basic "mountain" bike (Univega 305Rover) that I have used for transportation on
and off (and now quite regularly) for the past 4 years. It works great, but the trouble is that
the front V-brake just *howls*. I've taken it in to several shops in multiple states (Arizona
formerly, Wisconsin now), in an effort to reduce the squeal.

In essentially every case, the mechanic fixes it for a week, after which it starts howling again.
It's been towed in, towed-in backwards, rim roughened up with emory cloth, etc. I've tried to
minimize the howl myself, with roughly the same results.

I've had this problem for basically as long as I have owned the bike (which is otherwise
trouble free).

It definitely howls *more* in the morning when the rim may be a little damp from dew, although I
can get a howl pretty much anytime.

At this point, I've pretty well convinced myself that no amount of adjustment will stop the squeal
and that something needs to be replaced. Is it possible for howling to be caused only by "bad"
brake pads or a "bad" rim?

If I decide to get new brakes, am I throwing my money away? would a rim be a better choice,
etc, etc.

Thanks, Randy Smith

My front v-brake squeals loudly when I hard brake. Makes the whole fork vibrate, and no amount of
adjusting makes it go away. Ah well, it's useful for scaring those annoying small dogs, skaters and
pedestrians that unexpectly get right smack in the way.

Traveller v.116 said:

My front v-brake squeals loudly when I hard brake. Makes the whole fork vibrate, and no amount of
adjusting makes it go away. Ah well, it's useful for scaring those annoying small dogs, skaters and
pedestrians that unexpectly get right smack in the way.

I finally got a chance to try saying "Beep beep" today, and it brought a smile.

--
Rick "Beep beep" Onanian

Randy Smith said:

I've got a fairly basic "mountain" bike (Univega 305Rover) that I have used for transportation on
and off (and now quite regularly) for the past 4 years. It works great, but the trouble is that
the front V-brake just *howls*. I've taken it in to several shops in multiple states (Arizona
formerly, Wisconsin now), in an effort to reduce the squeal.

In essentially every case, the mechanic fixes it for a week, after which it starts howling again.
It's been towed in, towed-in backwards, rim roughened up with emory cloth, etc. I've tried to
minimize the howl myself, with roughly the same results.

I've had this problem for basically as long as I have owned the bike (which is otherwise
trouble free).

It definitely howls *more* in the morning when the rim may be a little damp from dew, although I
can get a howl pretty much anytime.

At this point, I've pretty well convinced myself that no amount of adjustment will stop the squeal
and that something needs to be replaced. Is it possible for howling to be caused only by "bad"
brake pads or a "bad" rim?

If I decide to get new brakes, am I throwing my money away? would a rim be a better choice,
etc, etc.

Gee, I hope "Wisconsin" wasn't us! If so come back with it please.

First off, the noise is harmonic. So changing just about any variable ( pad material, pad angle, rim
surface texture/cleanliness) will change the pitch, perhaps out of audible range, or stop it.

There are many popular linear ("V"😉 brakes which no longer pivot on the frame's brake boss. A
stamped-together bearing assembly moves between a bronze and a steel sleeve. That saves factory
assembly time and therefore, under the bicycle version of Gresham's law, you'll see more of these
than any other type. They are very difficult to lubricate when new and are more prone to salt water
corrosion.

They have one other foible. the clearances are huge. When you grasp an arm and move it front to back
the play is excessive. There is no quick and easy cure for that. Try another brake as they are dirt
cheap. Look for a model which pivots on the brake boss itself if possible.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Randy Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

just *howls*. I've taken it in to several shops in multiple states (Arizona formerly, Wisconsin
now), in an effort to reduce the squeal.

i wrote up a sort of r.b.t compilation which i have just sent to the FAQ-master to add to the brake
squeal entry. the dang thing is 4 pages long in word, so ill spare you the full cut and paste. some
choice bits:

-clean rim. you might even do this before toeing in. soap and water generally work. or, you can try
an appropriate solvent. Alcohol, and acetone seem to work. Automotive brake cleaner has also been
suggested. Alcohol is much better for you than acetone, acetone is a stronger solvent. Brake cleaner
doesn't sound like something you'd want to drink either, but sometimes you have to make sacrifises.

-Make sure pads are correctly oriented. Pads where orientation matters generally have an arrow that
indicates rim revolution direction. Art Harris writes: "If you have any of the "asymetrical" pads,
make sure the longer end is towards the rear." If there is no indication of correct orientation, you
could try turning them around, or switching them left for right to see if that changes anything.

-sand rim. or scotchbrite. machined rims have a roughness to them already, but sanding can sometimes
help with these anyway. with some rims, steel wool, or a 400 grit swipe is all it takes. 125 grit is
the last resort, and your rims better be pre-machined or the fine scratches will look ugly and
nobody will talk to you on the club ride.

-take brake system apart and rebuild clean, lubed, and tight. neglected points would be a little
grease between pad washers which can make a BIG difference.

-clean pads. also make sure there is no foreign matter embedded in the pads.

-sand pads. or scotchbrite. if that doesnt work, file pads. You can also try sanding areas of the
pad away. Sanding a bevel into 1/4 of the leading edge of the pad has been suggested a few times.

-uneven toe in. toe in one pad only, or one pad more than the other.

-Toe-OUT. yes. toe the pads the wrong way. As little as 1/64" all the way up to 'generous' toe-out.
this decreases braking power, but if you keep it conservative it should not be a problem with modern
brake systems.

-change pad, either material or construction. a cartridge pad is stiffer than a disposable brake
pad. in addition, some cheaper pads may have inferior tolerances and not seat as firmly onto the
caliper. changing material can make a big difference.

-for bossed calipers (cantis/v's) a brake booster stiffens the system.

-aftermarket adjustments to brake calipers. Shimano, for example, sells shims that adjust the play
in some of their bossed brakes. This was specifically to address squealing problems in parallel-push
calipers, IIRC.

-change brake calipers. stiffer might help. or just changing something can do the trick. higher
quality does not necessarily mean less squealing, but it generally is a step in the right direction.

-you do have aluminum rims, don't you?

The Kool Stop Salmon Legend: A Red Herring?

Koolstop salmon pads are highly recommended on r.b.t for their power and quality. On my own bike, I
can feel a marked difference in power when running the KS salmons. However, all is not golden. Some
or all of these salmon pads seem to be particularly resistant to de-squealing with some setups. Many
posts volunteer alterations you can make that may or may not cut down on squeal, including sanding
off the plow tip, sanding a bevel into the pads, sanding in a 'toe-in', etc. Many suggest koolstop
dual compound pads for bikes in need of quality pads but with serious squealing issues with the
full-salmons. Another possibility to reap the benefits of grippy salmon is to use the KS salmon
cartridges with a stiff metal cartridge holder.

Things that can cause a brake that wasn't squealing before to start squealing;

-coating the rim with a substance that exaggerates the stick-slip behavior of pad on rim. examples
include getting oil or grease on the rim surface, or biking through wet grasses as mentioned in the
FAQ. Fix: clean the rim. Getting wet can do this too. Riding in fog, dew, or the rain can start an
otherwise quiet system off until the sun comes out. -Too clean. This is one that has happened to me.
It seems that some amount of dirt or abrasive on the rim can keeps things quiet for squeal-prone
brake systems. I once cleaned the rims on one of my squeal-prone rides with alcohol, and suddenly my
brakes were squealing after months of silence. I cleaned again. More squeal. I figured it was impure
solvent, so i upgraded to acetone, and cleaned them with that. still squealing like a pig. I had to
lightly sand the rims and toe them in more to shut them up. -pads wearing down and developing new
resonant properties. re-toe in, sand, or whatever it takes. -bad karma. call your mother, clean your
bike, feed your dog, and hope for the best.

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Traveller v.116 said:

My front v-brake squeals loudly when I hard brake. Makes the whole fork vibrate, and no amount of
adjusting makes it go away. Ah well, it's useful for scaring those annoying small dogs, skaters
and pedestrians that unexpectly get right smack in the way.

I finally got a chance to try saying "Beep beep" today, and it brought a smile.

--
Rick "Beep beep" Onanian

Yelling at them through a full-face helmet don't work so well for me. I'm looking at modidying one
of those cheap "personal alarm" thingies with a doorbell button and using it as a horn. Those
gadgets are surprisingly loud for their size. 100+ db of earsplitting shriek out of a plastic box
the size of a cigarette pack - if /that/ don't get thier attention...

They come with a kind of panic switch that's triggered by yanking out a ripcord. I'm thinking of
removing the panic switch, and soldering in the wires for the button.

Thoughts, anyone?

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:06:35 -0500, Randy Smith <[email hidden]>

may have said:

In essentially every case, the mechanic fixes it for a week, after which it starts howling again.
It's been towed in, towed-in backwards, rim roughened up with emory cloth, etc. I've tried to
minimize the howl myself, with roughly the same results.

Time to stop flogging that horse, then. The pads you've got are apparently howl-prone. All may not
be lost, though; sometimes, they can be quited by pulling the barke arms off and applying a dab of
heavy grease to eack of the pivots. It's worth a try.

Quoted message said:

I've had this problem for basically as long as I have owned the bike (which is otherwise
trouble free).

It definitely howls *more* in the morning when the rim may be a little damp from dew, although I
can get a howl pretty much anytime.

At this point, I've pretty well convinced myself that no amount of adjustment will stop the squeal
and that something needs to be replaced. Is it possible for howling to be caused only by "bad"
brake pads or a "bad" rim?

If I decide to get new brakes, am I throwing my money away? would a rim be a better choice,
etc, etc.

Pads are the place to make a change, in my opinion, and their characteristics vary quite a bit. Lots
of people report that they have the best results from Kool Stop salmon pads. (Not the darker red
ones.) I've never tried them myself, having been able to solve my own squeal problems with less
drastic measures. Since you've already tried almost everything that usually works for me, you may
end up swapping pads anyway. It's not likely that swapping rims would solve the problem, in my
experience.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

Traveller v.116 said:

Yelling at them through a full-face helmet don't work so well for me. I'm looking at modidying one
of those cheap "personal alarm" thingies with a doorbell button and using it as a horn. Those
gadgets are surprisingly loud for their size. 100+ db of earsplitting shriek out of a plastic box
the size of a cigarette pack - if /that/ don't get thier attention...

They come with a kind of panic switch that's triggered by yanking out a ripcord. I'm thinking of
removing the panic switch, and soldering in the wires for the button.

Thoughts, anyone?

You might try one or more of the following:

1. Check with your local ordinances. It could be that loud of a "horn" is not legal, and could get
you into a nice lawsuit if you use it and it causes some old geezer on his afternoon walk to get
a heart attack.

2. If you are in a congested area, slow down a bit and allow for some people not hearing or not
responding to your bell / voice.

3. If you are not in a congested area, repeat option for item 2.

I think if we think hard enough, we can all remember a time when we were walking and were surprised
by a bike / skateboard / runner / whatever. I think if we had a loud or obnoxious horn in our ear,
it would not be a nice experience and would NOT make us more amenable to that sport in the future.

Dan Brussee <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Traveller v.116 said:

Yelling at them through a full-face helmet don't work so well for me. I'm looking at modidying one
of those cheap "personal alarm" thingies with a doorbell button and using it as a horn. Those
gadgets are surprisingly loud for their size. 100+ db of earsplitting shriek out of a plastic box
the size of a cigarette pack - if /that/ don't get thier attention...

They come with a kind of panic switch that's triggered by yanking out a ripcord. I'm thinking of
removing the panic switch, and soldering in the wires for the button.

Thoughts, anyone?

You might try one or more of the following:

1. Check with your local ordinances. It could be that loud of a "horn" is not legal, and could get
you into a nice lawsuit if you use it and it causes some old geezer on his afternoon walk to
get a heart attack.

Good point. Those screamers don't make a normal horn tone; they sound like fire alarms on steroids.
Very high pitched and irritating.

Quoted message said:

2. If you are in a congested area, slow down a bit and allow for some people not hearing or not
responding to your bell / voice.

Some spots were very congested today with foot traffic. I did a lot of yelling - "Hey!" "Heads up!"
"Look out, coming through!" And of course, Ye Olde Brake Squeal. I think half the town decided to
shop today or something. I wound up rigging a business card onto a chainstay and letting it rattle
off the spokes. What the hey, it worked.

Quoted message said:

3. If you are not in a congested area, repeat option for item 2.

I think if we think hard enough, we can all remember a time when we were walking and were
surprised by a bike / skateboard / runner / whatever. I think if we had a loud or obnoxious horn
in our ear, it would not be a nice experience and would NOT make us more amenable to that sport in
the future.

Traveller v.116 said:

Dan Brussee <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Traveller v.116 said:

Yelling at them through a full-face helmet don't work so well for me. I'm looking at modidying
one of those cheap "personal alarm" thingies with a doorbell button and using it as a horn. Those
gadgets are surprisingly loud for their size. 100+ db of earsplitting shriek out of a plastic box
the size of a cigarette pack - if /that/ don't get thier attention...

They come with a kind of panic switch that's triggered by yanking out a ripcord. I'm thinking of
removing the panic switch, and soldering in the wires for the button.

Thoughts, anyone?

You might try one or more of the following:

1. Check with your local ordinances. It could be that loud of a "horn" is not legal, and could
get you into a nice lawsuit if you use it and it causes some old geezer on his afternoon walk
to get a heart attack.

Good point. Those screamers don't make a normal horn tone; they sound like fire alarms on steroids.
Very high pitched and irritating.

Quoted message said:

2. If you are in a congested area, slow down a bit and allow for some people not hearing or not
responding to your bell / voice.

Some spots were very congested today with foot traffic. I did a lot of yelling - "Hey!" "Heads up!"
"Look out, coming through!" And of course, Ye Olde Brake Squeal. I think half the town decided to
shop today or something. I wound up rigging a business card onto a chainstay and letting it rattle
off the spokes. What the hey, it worked.

Quoted message said:

3. If you are not in a congested area, repeat option for item 2.

I think if we think hard enough, we can all remember a time when we were walking and were
surprised by a bike / skateboard / runner / whatever. I think if we had a loud or obnoxious horn
in our ear, it would not be a nice experience and would NOT make us more amenable to that sport
in the future.

After reading your response, I realized I came off quite condesending
- which was not my intent.

Dan Brussee <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]: Snipped.

Quoted message said:

After reading your response, I realized I came off quite condesending
- which was not my intent.

Not at all. You made a good point about the legality of using a screamer for a horn, something I
want to look into. Still, this thread makes one realize that a bicycle needs some kind of audible
warning device. Preferably small, lightweight, power effecient, reliable... And nociable enough when
sounded to be heard through Walkman headsets and cellphones. Over half the pedestrians, skaters, and
kids on bikes/scooters that come too close to colliding with me have Walkmans or cellphones in their
ears, and generally aren't watching where their going.

I did a little research, and found some pretty loud horns out there. Air Zounds - 130+ db A
homebrewed airhorn using a squeezebulb type trumpet horn, an old air tool valve, fish tank hose, and
a 1 liter Coke bottle for an airtank - around 100 db A modified eletronic door alarm, sold as the
"bike siren" - 120 db The "Megahorn", an electric buzzer horn - 125 db "Bike Beeper", a buzzer type
built into a front reflector - 100 db A modified motorcycle horn - 98 db El cheapo homebrew based on
a Radio Shack buzzer - 100 db A squeezebulb trumpet that claims 99 db

And apparently, all of the above are completely legal.

A Muzi said:

Randy Smith said:

I've got a fairly basic "mountain" bike (Univega 305Rover) that I have used for transportation on
and off (and now quite regularly) for the past 4 years. It works great, but the trouble is that
the front V-brake just *howls*. I've taken it in to several shops in multiple states (Arizona
formerly, Wisconsin now), in an effort to reduce the squeal.

In essentially every case, the mechanic fixes it for a week, after which it starts howling again.
It's been towed in, towed-in backwards, rim roughened up with emory cloth, etc. I've tried to
minimize the howl myself, with roughly the same results.

I've had this problem for basically as long as I have owned the bike (which is otherwise
trouble free).

It definitely howls *more* in the morning when the rim may be a little damp from dew, although I
can get a howl pretty much anytime.

At this point, I've pretty well convinced myself that no amount of adjustment will stop the
squeal and that something needs to be replaced. Is it possible for howling to be caused only by
"bad" brake pads or a "bad" rim?

If I decide to get new brakes, am I throwing my money away? would a rim be a better choice,
etc, etc.

Gee, I hope "Wisconsin" wasn't us! If so come back with it please.

Nope, haven't taken it to Yellow Jersey. Maybe I'll swing by and get some new brake pads, though 🙂

Thanks for the tips.

Quoted message said:

First off, the noise is harmonic. So changing just about any variable ( pad material, pad angle,
rim surface texture/cleanliness) will change the pitch, perhaps out of audible range, or stop it.

There are many popular linear ("V"😉 brakes which no longer pivot on the frame's brake boss. A
stamped-together bearing assembly moves between a bronze and a steel sleeve. That saves factory
assembly time and therefore, under the bicycle version of Gresham's law, you'll see more of these
than any other type. They are very difficult to lubricate when new and are more prone to salt
water corrosion.

They have one other foible. the clearances are huge. When you grasp an arm and move it front to
back the play is excessive. There is no quick and easy cure for that. Try another brake as they
are dirt cheap. Look for a model which pivots on the brake boss itself if possible.

Werehatrack said:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:06:35 -0500, Randy Smith <[email hidden]>

may have said:

In essentially every case, the mechanic fixes it for a week, after which it starts howling again.
It's been towed in, towed-in backwards, rim roughened up with emory cloth, etc. I've tried to
minimize the howl myself, with roughly the same results.

Time to stop flogging that horse, then. The pads you've got are apparently howl-prone. All may not
be lost, though; sometimes, they can be quited by pulling the barke arms off and applying a dab of
heavy grease to eack of the pivots. It's worth a try.

Quoted message said:

I've had this problem for basically as long as I have owned the bike (which is otherwise
trouble free).

It definitely howls *more* in the morning when the rim may be a little damp from dew, although I
can get a howl pretty much anytime.

At this point, I've pretty well convinced myself that no amount of adjustment will stop the squeal
and that something needs to be replaced. Is it possible for howling to be caused only by "bad"
brake pads or a "bad" rim?

If I decide to get new brakes, am I throwing my money away? would a rim be a better choice,
etc, etc.

Pads are the place to make a change, in my opinion, and their characteristics vary quite a bit.
Lots of people report that they have the best results from Kool Stop salmon pads. (Not the darker
red ones.) I've never tried them myself, having been able to solve my own squeal problems with
less drastic measures. Since you've already tried almost everything that usually works for me, you
may end up swapping pads anyway. It's not likely that swapping rims would solve the problem, in my
experience.

Looks like a pad change is the way to go. Thanks for your help.

Quoted message said:

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

ant said:

Randy Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

just *howls*. I've taken it in to several shops in multiple states (Arizona formerly, Wisconsin
now), in an effort to reduce the squeal.

i wrote up a sort of r.b.t compilation which i have just sent to the FAQ-master to add to the
brake squeal entry. the dang thing is 4 pages long in word, so ill spare you the full cut and
paste. some choice bits:

-clean rim. you might even do this before toeing in. soap and water generally work. or, you can
try an appropriate solvent. Alcohol, and acetone seem to work. Automotive brake cleaner has also
been suggested. Alcohol is much better for you than acetone, acetone is a stronger solvent. Brake
cleaner doesn't sound like something you'd want to drink either, but sometimes you have to make
sacrifises.

-Make sure pads are correctly oriented. Pads where orientation matters generally have an arrow
that indicates rim revolution direction. Art Harris writes: "If you have any of the "asymetrical"
pads, make sure the longer end is towards the rear." If there is no indication of correct
orientation, you could try turning them around, or switching them left for right to see if that
changes anything.

-sand rim. or scotchbrite. machined rims have a roughness to them already, but sanding can
sometimes help with these anyway. with some rims, steel wool, or a 400 grit swipe is all it takes.
125 grit is the last resort, and your rims better be pre-machined or the fine scratches will look
ugly and nobody will talk to you on the club ride.

-take brake system apart and rebuild clean, lubed, and tight. neglected points would be a little
grease between pad washers which can make a BIG difference.

-clean pads. also make sure there is no foreign matter embedded in the pads.

-sand pads. or scotchbrite. if that doesnt work, file pads. You can also try sanding areas of the
pad away. Sanding a bevel into 1/4 of the leading edge of the pad has been suggested a few times.

-uneven toe in. toe in one pad only, or one pad more than the other.

-Toe-OUT. yes. toe the pads the wrong way. As little as 1/64" all the way up to 'generous'
toe-out. this decreases braking power, but if you keep it conservative it should not be a problem
with modern brake systems.

-change pad, either material or construction. a cartridge pad is stiffer than a disposable brake
pad. in addition, some cheaper pads may have inferior tolerances and not seat as firmly onto the
caliper. changing material can make a big difference.

-for bossed calipers (cantis/v's) a brake booster stiffens the system.

-aftermarket adjustments to brake calipers. Shimano, for example, sells shims that adjust the play
in some of their bossed brakes. This was specifically to address squealing problems in
parallel-push calipers, IIRC.

-change brake calipers. stiffer might help. or just changing something can do the trick. higher
quality does not necessarily mean less squealing, but it generally is a step in the right
direction.

-you do have aluminum rims, don't you?

The Kool Stop Salmon Legend: A Red Herring?

Koolstop salmon pads are highly recommended on r.b.t for their power and quality. On my own bike,
I can feel a marked difference in power when running the KS salmons. However, all is not golden.
Some or all of these salmon pads seem to be particularly resistant to de-squealing with some
setups. Many posts volunteer alterations you can make that may or may not cut down on squeal,
including sanding off the plow tip, sanding a bevel into the pads, sanding in a 'toe-in', etc.
Many suggest koolstop dual compound pads for bikes in need of quality pads but with serious
squealing issues with the full-salmons. Another possibility to reap the benefits of grippy salmon
is to use the KS salmon cartridges with a stiff metal cartridge holder.

Things that can cause a brake that wasn't squealing before to start squealing;

-coating the rim with a substance that exaggerates the stick-slip behavior of pad on rim. examples
include getting oil or grease on the rim surface, or biking through wet grasses as mentioned in
the FAQ. Fix: clean the rim. Getting wet can do this too. Riding in fog, dew, or the rain can
start an otherwise quiet system off until the sun comes out. -Too clean. This is one that has
happened to me. It seems that some amount of dirt or abrasive on the rim can keeps things quiet
for squeal-prone brake systems. I once cleaned the rims on one of my squeal-prone rides with
alcohol, and suddenly my brakes were squealing after months of silence. I cleaned again. More
squeal. I figured it was impure solvent, so i upgraded to acetone, and cleaned them with that.
still squealing like a pig. I had to lightly sand the rims and toe them in more to shut them up.
-pads wearing down and developing new resonant properties. re-toe in, sand, or whatever it takes.
-bad karma. call your mother, clean your bike, feed your dog, and hope for the best.

Thanks for this information. I'll look for the faq to keep as a reference...

Randy Smith said:

At this point, I've pretty well convinced myself that no amount of adjustment will stop the squeal
and that something needs to be replaced. Is it possible for howling to be caused only by "bad"
brake pads or a "bad" rim?

In my experience, dried out pads can howl and cause problems. You might try boiling the pads for 30
minutes on the stove. This is the procedure used when attempting to soften and renovate decades-old
pads such as Weinmann Vainquer.

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA

Rick Onanian said:

Quoted message said:

Ah well, it's useful for scaring those annoying small dogs, skaters and pedestrians that
unexpectly get right smack in the way.

I finally got a chance to try saying "Beep beep" today, and it brought a smile.

It's not clear there's a space between "excuse me" and "GIVE WAY, DAMN YOU".
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

Traveller v.116 said:

I did a little research, and found some pretty loud horns out there. Air Zounds - 130+ db

If you want a horn, Air Zounds are indded pretty loud.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!