Clavicle experiences

Mark Fennell said:

Finally, after decades of riding and racing, I broke my clavicle in a crash.
I'm interested in other cyclists' experiences with this injury, particularly
the outcomes of treatment options, e.g., surgery vs. non-surgery, and if you
chose surgery, did you get the external plate on the bone or an internal
pin. Please share your experiences, and thanks in advance.

Mark

no surgery, 6 weeks in a sling-imobilizer thing, small bump left over,
hurts to cough

In article <15Zhg.23592$XV5.21582@fed1read10>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Finally, after decades of riding and racing, I broke my clavicle in a crash.
I'm interested in other cyclists' experiences with this injury, particularly
the outcomes of treatment options, e.g., surgery vs. non-surgery, and if you
chose surgery, did you get the external plate on the bone or an internal
pin. Please share your experiences, and thanks in advance.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/tifoso/Threads.JPG

Titanium plate.

Was busted BIG TIME. Now, I never think about it...

-Bob

Mark I broke my clavical just over 1 year ago.I am 44 years old and it
was the first broken bone I have had.The x-rays showed a very nasty
break and the doc told me that surgery was most likely going to be
needed to restore free movement in my right shoulder.At the time I had
a bike tour planned for Belgium later in the summer and I was very
hesitant to go under the knife.Doc tells me to wear the figure-8 sling
and come back in a month

During the next month I wore the sling and tried to get as much range
of motion as possible back into my shoulder.After about 3 weeks I
started to tell a big improvement.Finally returned to Doc and he
reviewed the new x-rays and while he was trying to tell me that the
x-rays were indicating I needed surgery I was started simulating
throwing a baseball.Doc was shocked at this and even questioned as to
how in heck I could lift my arm when the x-rays showed only small
improvement from the first appointment.Doc told me he was amazed but
that I should not have any further trouble.

Today I have no pain,although I have retired from throwing a baseball
around.I have a large knot in the spot of the break.I returned to bike
riding after about 5-6 weeks.The break really hurt for about a week and
then the pain started easing up.Consider yourself a true cyclist now
and good luck.

Mark Fennell said:

Finally, after decades of riding and racing, I broke my clavicle in a crash.
I'm interested in other cyclists' experiences with this injury, particularly
the outcomes of treatment options, e.g., surgery vs. non-surgery, and if you
chose surgery, did you get the external plate on the bone or an internal
pin. Please share your experiences, and thanks in advance.

Dumbass -

I had one millimeter of separation. Didn't get an operation, although
the doc gave me the option.

Had great form at the time of the crash. Really wanted to keep it. Took
Vicodin and rode 4 hours/day on the trainer (while watching movies and
cycling videos) for 2 weeks. At that time I could go out and train
again, although, of course, no racing yet. Rode up Mt. Palomar just to
do it, 120 miles round trip. Took the arm on the injured side off the
bars whenever there was a bump in the road.

The form was gone. The 4 hours/day on the trainer didn't work. I've
read that when the body gets stressed out, catabolic hormones are
released, although that doesn't make total sense to me. Regardless, the
"keeping the form" experiment was a total failure.

There is now a pretty big bump where the break was. The bone's much
bigger in that spot than equivalent spot on the other side.

Did you break it in a Masters Fattie race? If so, my heart bleeds for
you.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Mark Fennell said:

Finally, after decades of riding and racing, I broke my clavicle in a crash.
I'm interested in other cyclists' experiences with this injury, particularly
the outcomes of treatment options, e.g., surgery vs. non-surgery, and if you
chose surgery, did you get the external plate on the bone or an internal
pin. Please share your experiences, and thanks in advance.

Mine was badly broken with a few pieces that had broken off and
required surgery. A pin to hold the bone together and it was fully healed
in under 5 weeks (I even managed to fall onto it while dismounting from
the trainer after 4 1/2 weeks).

You may not be able to maintain top form but you can retain most of your
base fitness if you are mentally tough enough for reasonably long sessions
on the trainer (and as a former 5 and 10000m runner used to running around
and around and around a track that wasn't too tough but if you have
problems a few videos of Basso might help. His sister that is.)

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Had great form at the time of the crash. Really wanted to keep it. Took
Vicodin and rode 4 hours/day on the trainer

4 hours/day WTF?

Quoted message said:

(while watching movies

Oh yeah, "movies" I get it know.

JT

and

Quoted message said:

cycling videos) for 2 weeks. At that time I could go out and train
again, although, of course, no racing yet. Rode up Mt. Palomar just to
do it, 120 miles round trip. Took the arm on the injured side off the
bars whenever there was a bump in the road.

The form was gone. The 4 hours/day on the trainer didn't work. I've
read that when the body gets stressed out, catabolic hormones are
released, although that doesn't make total sense to me. Regardless, the
"keeping the form" experiment was a total failure.

That's very interesting info.

JT

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Kurgan Gringioni said:

Did you break it in a Masters Fattie race? If so, my heart bleeds for
you.

Don't bleed for me, I don't deserve it.

I'd been doing p/1/2 races for last couple of months and my fitness is/was
decent, but I signed up for the fattie race at Mt. Hood along with some
teammates.

Stage 1 was an unremarkable 55-mile affair in the rain. Stage 2 was a 10.5
mile tt and I did a mediocre ride. I felt great in the stage 3 technical
crit and was active at and off the front. Then I crashed on the sharp
off-camber 150-degree turn because my rear tire (clincher) blew out. Not
sure why that happened but it was instantaneous and I was sliding.
Fortunately I was a bit OTF so nobody hit me, but it was embarrassing. Only
body damage was road rash so I took my freebie and was thrown back in with
about 7 to go. I led out two NorCal friends and ended up 4th myself. A trip
to the Rite-Aid that night for some tagaderm and I felt good to go. BTW,
Dotsie (Cowden) Baush crashed on the same corner while leading the pro
women's race it she broke her clavicle I think.

Anyway, the final stage was a 75 mile hilly road race in the cold rain. On
the first uphill I quickly knew I was going to suck, and by the top I was
dropped by the front 10-15 guys. The downhill was wet and mossy and I could
barely see them up there through my gritty, fogged-up glasses but for some
reason I thought it would be a good idea to take risks and fly down the hill
to catch back on. Normally I'm a good descender and have made significant
time on techincal downhills in lots of races. This was not one of those
times. I never got into the "zone" and I was blowing it on lots of corners.
Then there was a sequence of gradual S-turns where the bends in the road
were maybe 30 degrees and I flew through them like a slalom ski racer back
in the zone... until the last bend wasn't 30 degrees but more like 130. As
soon as I saw this speed-and-geometry conundrum I knew I was toast, but
instead of just laying it down on my already-road-rashed right side, I rode
off of the pavement at speed and my front wheel grabbed into the soft mud
and I flipped over and landed shoulder-and-back on the only boulder around.
My right clavicle went snap-crackle-pop. Had I been a meter to either side,
I would have simply plopped into pudding-consistency mud with a nice
frosting of pine needles. As it was I got up, attempted to remount my bike
and immediately dropped back to the ground in a new world of pain. For the
next few minutes guys would ride by and yell out "are you alright???" to
which I would respond "uhh... no", but they would continue on. But hey, what
are they going to do anyway??

Finally a follow vehicle appears, I fall into the back seat, leaving my bike
by the side of the road, and begin my odyssey into the Hood River medical
world. The first attention was from a spectator who happened to be an ER
doc, and she duct taped the skin down so the bone wouldn't poke through,
which it was about to do. Generously, she drove me to the ER where the care
was excellent and compassionate, and after three hours I departed there with
xrays showing a complete break out toward my right shoulder with the bone
ends overlapping by about an inch and a couple of sharp shards shooting off
orthogonally. My friends transport me to Portland, my wife flies up and then
drives me the precisely 1,000 miles back home. And tomorrow at noon I go
under the knife to repair the break with a metal plate. It better be
titanium!

The worst part is that this ordeal is 100% my fault, and the result of very
stupid reasoning. I mean, what if I hadn't crashed and had caught back on? I
would have been dropped again on the next mountain, guaranteed. I actually
thought about that before starting the dare-devil descent and did it anyway.
What a moron!

Be careful out there!

Mark

Mark Fennell said:

Finally, after decades of riding and racing, I broke my clavicle in a
crash. I'm interested in other cyclists' experiences with this injury,
particularly the outcomes of treatment options, e.g., surgery vs.
non-surgery, and if you chose surgery, did you get the external plate
on the bone or an internal pin. Please share your experiences, and
thanks in advance.

Mark

Broke mine on the MTB; broke it into about 5 pieces. So surgery was
recommended, which I opted for. Have a "10 hole" plate which is 7 or
8" long. Been about 6 years now; still have the plate in there. I
could get it removed but the plate really doesn't bother me so I
haven't done so.

Surgery for broken clavicles is pretty rare -- typically less than 5%
of cases (in the US at least -- I believe European "norms" for
treatment are more aggressive). If I hadn't had the surgery I'd be in
jail for homicide as a bone was poking me in the side of the neck
pretty hard and driving me crazy, and my arm was falling asleep as I
was pinching a nerve or blood vessel as well.... driving me fscking
crazy.

mrbubl said:

Mark Fennell said:

Finally, after decades of riding and racing, I broke my clavicle in a crash.
I'm interested in other cyclists' experiences with this injury, particularly
the outcomes of treatment options, e.g., surgery vs. non-surgery, and if you
chose surgery, did you get the external plate on the bone or an internal
pin. Please share your experiences, and thanks in advance.

Mark

no surgery, 6 weeks in a sling-imobilizer thing, small bump left over,
hurts to cough

Nearly the same for me. I orginally had the "sling thing" which I
swapped for a behind-the-shoulders butterly brace and was much
happier. Surgery was not really promoted as an option - as the
orthopod's PA explained "well you can trade that very inexpensive lump
for an expensive scar." I have a distinct bump- no other residual
problems.

DR

Bill Lloyd said:

Surgery for broken clavicles is pretty rare -- typically less than 5%
of cases (in the US at least -- I believe European "norms" for
treatment are more aggressive).

Personally I would normally recommend surgery, as mine healed in under 5
weeks with surgery while a friend who had a less severe break and opted
for no surgery ended up having to have surgery anyway after it didn't heal
properly and had to be re-broken.

Mark Fennell said:

Finally, after decades of riding and racing, I broke my clavicle in a crash.
I'm interested in other cyclists' experiences with this injury, particularly
the outcomes of treatment options, e.g., surgery vs. non-surgery, and if you
chose surgery, did you get the external plate on the bone or an internal
pin. Please share your experiences, and thanks in advance.

There's been a real crop of collarbone injuries lately.

More seriously: 2001, clean break, no surgery, no pin, sling for a week,
healed naturally for 6, back on the trainer after 2. Nice straight
mend, no pain or stiffness.

Hurts to sleep for a while, then it only hurts all the time after that.

Welcome to cyling.

"Mark Fennell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:15Zhg.23592$XV5.21582@fed1read10...

Quoted message said:

Finally, after decades of riding and racing, I broke my clavicle in a
crash. I'm interested in other cyclists' experiences with this injury,
particularly the outcomes of treatment options, e.g., surgery vs.
non-surgery, and if you chose surgery, did you get the external plate on
the bone or an internal pin. Please share your experiences, and thanks in
advance.

Mark

DirtRoadie said:

Nearly the same for me. I orginally had the "sling thing" which I
swapped for a behind-the-shoulders butterly brace and was much
happier. Surgery was not really promoted as an option - as the
orthopod's PA explained "well you can trade that very inexpensive lump
for an expensive scar." I have a distinct bump- no other residual
problems.

DR

Has been over a year with no surgery. The bones were shattered too
badly to pin and the sling thing would not have helped my break.
Eventually it should fix itself. Oddly enough, it has not hurt since
the first two weeks. Have a big knot and it moves a little less each
month, but it still does not hurt. I was told that I would probably
still have a knot and it would take it a long time to heal so I passed
on surgery. They would have had to cut out part of the joint to
relocate the broken bone.

Gotta love the anecdotal data.

Most clavicle fractures heal quickly, in 6 weeks or so, without surgery.
Literature supports use of slings as opposed to figure-8 braces. There is
no difference in healing position or healing time but, in general, the sling
group has less pain. This is, of course, not true in every individual so I
give people both a sling and a figure-8 and tell them to wear whatever feels
best at the time. Surgery is recommended generally not related to how many
pieces there were in the fracture or even how much displacement there is but
more dependant on where the bone fractured. Very distal fractures are less
likely to heal and surgery is often suggested earlier if they remain
symptomatic. Non-union, i.e. non-healing, is another reason for surgery.
This should be based on symptoms and not X-ray findings. Personally I would
wait a long time, more than 6 months, before I considered my clavicle
fracture to be a non-union.

--
Mike Murray MD

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bill Lloyd said:

Surgery for broken clavicles is pretty rare -- typically less than 5%
of cases (in the US at least -- I believe European "norms" for
treatment are more aggressive).

Personally I would normally recommend surgery, as mine healed in under 5
weeks with surgery while a friend who had a less severe break and opted
for no surgery ended up having to have surgery anyway after it didn't heal
properly and had to be re-broken.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Mike Murray said:

Gotta love the anecdotal data.

Most clavicle fractures heal quickly, in 6 weeks or so, without surgery.
Literature supports use of slings as opposed to figure-8 braces. There is
no difference in healing position or healing time but, in general, the sling
group has less pain. This is, of course, not true in every individual so I
give people both a sling and a figure-8 and tell them to wear whatever feels
best at the time. Surgery is recommended generally not related to how many
pieces there were in the fracture or even how much displacement there is but
more dependant on where the bone fractured. Very distal fractures are less
likely to heal and surgery is often suggested earlier if they remain
symptomatic. Non-union, i.e. non-healing, is another reason for surgery.
This should be based on symptoms and not X-ray findings. Personally I would
wait a long time, more than 6 months, before I considered my clavicle
fracture to be a non-union.

Thank you for this.

--
Michael Press

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Had great form at the time of the crash. Really wanted to keep it. Took
Vicodin and rode 4 hours/day on the trainer

4 hours/day WTF?

Dumbass -

I'm fast twitch and the training plan that worked well for me was big
miles.

I was building a house at that time and since I couldn't work
one-armed, there was nothing better to do.

As for the videos - I've never been able to get a boner on the bike so
it wasn't those sorts of videos (surely that's too much information).

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Mike Murray said:

Gotta love the anecdotal data.

Most clavicle fractures heal quickly, in 6 weeks or so, without surgery.

But at what point would you consider it safe to ride with?

Quoted message said:

Personally I would
wait a long time, more than 6 months, before I considered my clavicle
fracture to be a non-union.

That long? If it's supposed to heal by 6 weeks and it was still mobile
and painful by twice that time, why would you double the wait again
until considering it non-union and considering surgery?

Kurgan Gringioni said:

As for the videos - I've never been able to get a boner on the bike so
it wasn't those sorts of videos (surely that's too much information).

Dumbarse,

Are you sure?

How many times did you try?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Mark Fennell said:

The worst part is that this ordeal is 100% my fault, and the result of very
stupid reasoning. I mean, what if I hadn't crashed and had caught back on? I
would have been dropped again on the next mountain, guaranteed. I actually
thought about that before starting the dare-devil descent and did it anyway.
What a moron!

Dumbass -

The adage "Bike racing makes you stupid" holds true.

Look on the bright side. There's always the Masters Fattie excuse of "I
gotta work on Monday" for not being there in the sprint instead of "I
lacked power" or "I was a [censored] and was scared". At least you're not
making excuses.

It's funny - when you're a kid, you do all kinds of crazy things and don't think
twice about the possibility there may be consequences. But for many people, there
comes a time when the phrase, "If I get hurt, I can't work" starts to come into
play. That varies pretty wildly depending on the individual, of course.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?