I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork crown race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no visible pitting. Is it safe to use a headset in this condition? (after overhauling it, of course). It's not worth the trouble it would take to try and find a new headset for this bike unless I'm actually endangering myself by using grooved races.
I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork crown race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no visible pitting. Is it safe to use a headset in this condition? (after overhauling it, of course). It's not worth the trouble it would take to try and find a new headset for this bike unless I'm actually endangering myself by using grooved races.
I'd repack it with some fresh grease and bearings and see if you can adjust it so it feels proper and smooth. If so, don't worry about it. Pitting or "indexing" is much more of a problem, and not really "unsafe" either, you just won't be able to ride without your hands and steering will be a wee less precise.
I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork crown race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no visible pitting. Is it safe to use a headset in this condition? (after overhauling it, of course). It's not worth the trouble it would take to try and find a new headset for this bike unless I'm actually endangering myself by using grooved races.
I'd repack it with some fresh grease and bearings and see if you can adjust it so it feels proper and smooth. If so, don't worry about it. Pitting or "indexing" is much more of a problem, and not really "unsafe" either, you just won't be able to ride without your hands and steering will be a wee less precise.
In addition to that, remove and reinstall the race rotated a 1/5 turn or so to put more pressure on less used portions of the race.
try loosescrews for anew one? if the surfaces are worn. worn elliptically, not expecting the wear to go round were you? then tightening on the short side forces the mechanism apart on the long side - ergo -no adjustment possible: the unit wobbles to loose to function even with red locktite smeared on your teeth
<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork crown race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no visible pitting. Is it safe to use a headset in this condition? (after overhauling it, of course). It's not worth the trouble it would take to try and find a new headset for this bike unless I'm actually endangering myself by using grooved races.
If you can adjust it so there's no play and it's not binding, I'd just repack it. But even if you can't, there's no need to search for a French headset - any 1", non-JIS headset will do. Just replace the crown race and lower cup, since they bear all the load, and repack the existing top half.
I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork crown race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no visible pitting. Is it safe to use a headset in this condition? (after overhauling it, of course). It's not worth the trouble it would take to try and find a new headset for this bike unless I'm actually endangering myself by using grooved races.
I'd repack it with some fresh grease and bearings and see if you can adjust it so it feels proper and smooth. If so, don't worry about it. Pitting or "indexing" is much more of a problem, and not really "unsafe" either, you just won't be able to ride without your hands and steering will be a wee less precise.
In addition to that, remove and reinstall the race rotated a 1/5 turn or so to put more pressure on less used portions of the race.
Why not 0.5 turn? Wouldn't you want the front part of the upper race at the back and correspondingly, the rear part of the lower race at the front? -- Phil
I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork crown race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no visible pitting. Is it safe to use a headset in this condition? (after overhauling it, of course). It's not worth the trouble it would take to try and find a new headset for this bike unless I'm actually endangering myself by using grooved races.
_ Since no one else has mentioned it and it's worked for over 3 years and a few thousand miles for me, my trick is to use the next size up bearing on the lower part of the headset. (i.e. 3/16 bearings where the originals were 5/32. ) Probably wouldn't work if you had a fancy (ie. 3/16 on the botton 5/32 on the top ) headset to start with, but on my old indexed Campy Gran Sport it works pretty well.
I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork crown race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no visible pitting. Is it safe to use a headset in this condition? (after overhauling it, of course). It's not worth the trouble it would take to try and find a new headset for this bike unless I'm actually endangering myself by using grooved races.
I'd repack it with some fresh grease and bearings and see if you can adjust it so it feels proper and smooth. If so, don't worry about it. Pitting or "indexing" is much more of a problem, and not really "unsafe" either, you just won't be able to ride without your hands and steering will be a wee less precise.
In addition to that, remove and reinstall the race rotated a 1/5 turn or so to put more pressure on less used portions of the race.
Certainly a fabulous idea in theory, and one I'd try myself if there was some visible indexing on the race. In reality, if I decided to remove and reinstall a race, I'd likely do it with an old screwdriver and a mallet, get really really close to getting it off-then warp it, drive or ride to the LBS, then as soon as I arrive, realize that, "[censored] it's Sunday, they're closed!"
YMMV, deffo good in theory, but careful if you're ham fisted. :-P
If you screw it up, I've found those cheapo Shimano STX headsets to be cheap and cheerful, and if you want to spend another Big Mac, the Tange Levin is a durable classic.
Not sure what the grooves are like, but I've had headsets get indentations, and I just stuck loose (rather than caged) balls in... always worked fine. I'd just try it.
If you screw it up, I've found those cheapo Shimano STX headsets to be cheap and cheerful, and if you want to spend another Big Mac, the Tange Levin is a durable classic.
I'm not sure if you need French or not, but the Shimano STX is a nice part, as is the current Tange. However, the stack-up of the current Tange Levin is not as large as the old "classic" one. If the stack height isn't right it could cause complications, some trivial and some budget-breaking, if this is a zero-cost project.
I would fully remove the existing parts, clean everything really well so it has the best chance of going back together correctly, and rebuild with loose balls. I also like the "turn the race" suggestion, but I haven't tried it. If it still can't be brought into a good adjustment, you need to renew the bottom race (or the HS). I said "renew" because I'm hoping someone has a method for polishing old races to provide a fresh bearing surface. I've had this problem a few times, too.
[email hidden] wrote: > I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth > putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the > headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork crown > race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no visible > pitting. Is it safe to use a headset in this condition? (after > overhauling it, of course). It's not worth the trouble it would > take to try and find a new headset for this bike unless I'm > actually endangering myself by using grooved races.
I'd repack it with some fresh grease and bearings and see if you can adjust it so it feels proper and smooth. If so, don't worry about it. Pitting or "indexing" is much more of a problem, and not really "unsafe" either, you just won't be able to ride without your hands and steering will be a wee less precise.
In addition to that, remove and reinstall the race rotated a 1/5 turn or so to put more pressure on less used portions of the race.
Why not 0.5 turn? Wouldn't you want the front part of the upper race at the back and correspondingly, the rear part of the lower race at the front? -- Phil
1/5 turn avoids symmetry. Maybe 3/5 of a turn would be better? There's no experimental reason for it, but I have a bad feeling about putting the rough spots in line with the main pressure zone. It seems like in bouncing, the front and back of the race would take more of a pounding than the sides. Again, I'm just going by my gut here.
Another thought is that if there's minor cone race damage, then there might be associated cup race damage. If those remain aligned, then you might accidentally retain some indexing feel.
Totally a baseless theory on how much to rotate it, but back when I was poor and just trying to keep my bikes running, I overthought stuff to make up for the lack of funds 🙂
landotter wrote: > [email hidden] wrote: >> I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth >> putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the >> headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork >> crown race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no >> visible pitting. Is it safe to use a headset in this condition? >> (after overhauling it, of course). It's not worth the trouble it >> would take to try and find a new headset for this bike unless I'm >> actually endangering myself by using grooved races. > > I'd repack it with some fresh grease and bearings and see if you > can adjust it so it feels proper and smooth. If so, don't worry > about it. Pitting or "indexing" is much more of a problem, and not > really "unsafe" either, you just won't be able to ride without > your hands and steering will be a wee less precise.
In addition to that, remove and reinstall the race rotated a 1/5 turn or so to put more pressure on less used portions of the race.
Why not 0.5 turn? Wouldn't you want the front part of the upper race at the back and correspondingly, the rear part of the lower race at the front? -- Phil
1/5 turn avoids symmetry. Maybe 3/5 of a turn would be better? There's no experimental reason for it, but I have a bad feeling about putting the rough spots in line with the main pressure zone. It seems like in bouncing, the front and back of the race would take more of a pounding than the sides. Again, I'm just going by my gut here.
Another thought is that if there's minor cone race damage, then there might be associated cup race damage. If those remain aligned, then you might accidentally retain some indexing feel.
Totally a baseless theory on how much to rotate it, but back when I was poor and just trying to keep my bikes running, I overthought stuff to make up for the lack of funds 🙂
Hehe... Well I find that headset races that have begun to index tend to have big detents only on the rear of the upper race and the front of the lower race. Rotating it 180 degrees plus a litte bit would help with the indexing more than just 72 degrees. Granted, the OP's headset isn't indexed or even pitted. -- Phil
If you screw it up, I've found those cheapo Shimano STX headsets to be cheap and cheerful, and if you want to spend another Big Mac, the Tange Levin is a durable classic.
I'm not sure if you need French or not, but the Shimano STX is a nice part, as is the current Tange. However, the stack-up of the current Tange Levin is not as large as the old "classic" one.
The last classic Levin I had, which was replaced with an STX, as that's all I could find on a Sunday, was about 2mm shorter than an STX. As far as I know, the Levin was from the late 70s.
In article <[email hidden]> wrote: I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork crown race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no visible pitting.
On some rear hubs, the number of grooves indicates the type of threading (english, french, italian). Are the grooves _right in the race_, or somewhere else ?? Remove the front wheel and stem/handlebars, if possible, and move the fork to check for indexing or other problems (lightly loaded is the easiest way to see if there is indexing.) If the headset works fine I wouldn't worry about the grooves.
I'm not sure if you need French or not, but the Shimano STX is a nice part, as is the current Tange. However, the stack-up of the current Tange Levin is not as large as the old "classic" one.
Tange is still making "the old classic headset". The nuovo-record-like steel Tange Levin and super-record-like aluminum Tange levin are both available from
www.cyclesdeoro.com
And they are getting it from "Wilson Bike Sales" a bike distributor in oakland california :
In article <[email hidden]> wrote: I'm fixing up an 70's-era peugeot uo-8 (i.e. a frame not worth putting much money into). The most troublesome part of it is the headset: The cups are in fairly good condition, but the fork crown race has visible concentric grooves on it, although no visible pitting.
On some rear hubs, the number of grooves indicates the type of threading (english, french, italian). Are the grooves _right in the race_, or somewhere else ?? Remove the front wheel and
The grooves are in the race, i.e. they give the appearance of having been worn into the race by the balls. The only things inside the headset when i bought it were balls and dirt (no grease), so this seems plausible to me. Though I don't think the bike was ever ridden far, it may have been stored outside or something.
Thanks to all who responded. I'm going to repack it with new balls and see what happens.
-Mark
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stem/handlebars, if possible, and move the fork to check for indexing or other problems (lightly loaded is the easiest way to see if there is indexing.) If the headset works fine I wouldn't worry about the grooves.
"Booker C. Bense" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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In article <[email hidden]>, <[email hidden]> wrote:
_ Since no one else has mentioned it and it's worked for over 3 years and a few thousand miles for me, my trick is to use the next size up bearing on the lower part of the headset. (i.e. 3/16 bearings where the originals were 5/32. ) Probably wouldn't work if you had a fancy (ie. 3/16 on the botton 5/32 on the top ) headset to start with, but on my old indexed Campy Gran Sport it works pretty well.
_ Booker C. Bense
Now this I really like! Sounds like larger balls (in the headset, silly!) either move the pressure track onto cleaner steel, or then spread the pressure. This goes in my must try list!
