Shifters

similar question from me... i have ultegra triple shifters, do i need to change it (the sifter) if i want to have a double? thanks in advance

cycledeep said:

I want to upgrade my Shimano 105 shifters to Ultegra. I have a triple crank. What is the difference between a double and triple shifter set? Do I need to get the triple?

There really isn't enough of a difference between your 105 shifters & Ultegra shifters to warrant changing just for change's sake -- presuming that your current shifters are 9-speed -- you will only achieve a cosmetic change UNLESS there is a particular FlightDeck harness that you wanted to use which your current shifters are not capable of accomodating.

It is my understanding, FWIW, that all current Shimano Ultegra & 105 shifters can handle triple cranks, but I may be in error.

With regard to using a double crank with triple-capable shifters, you should find that if you simply adjust your front derailleur's stops that your STI shifter will only shift across two chainrings, accordingly.

vuce said:

similar question from me... i have ultegra triple shifters, do i need to change it (the sifter) if i want to have a double? thanks in advance

Believe it or not, the answer depends on the number of cogs on the back. Up to 8-speeds, Shimano specifed different shifter part numbers for double and triple cranks. With 9-speed systems, the parts are the same (except, of course, Dura-Ace). For 10-speeds they're back to the different part numbers.

Why the difference? I honestly don't know. If I already owned some shifters, I think that I'd try to make what I had on hand work. If I were buying new components, I'd make sure that I got the right one.

vuce said:

similar question from me... i have ultegra triple shifters, do i need to change it (the sifter) if i want to have a double? thanks in advance

The triple shifter will work with the double.

John M, Retro Grouch, thanks to both

Retro Grouch said:

Believe it or not, the answer depends on the number of cogs on the back. Up to 8-speeds, Shimano specifed different shifter part numbers for double and triple cranks. With 9-speed systems, the parts are the same (except, of course, Dura-Ace). For 10-speeds they're back to the different part numbers.

Why the difference? I honestly don't know. If I already owned some shifters, I think that I'd try to make what I had on hand work. If I were buying new components, I'd make sure that I got the right one.

Oh, I can answer that observation with regard to the 8-speed STI shifters ...

With the 8-speed shifters:

* the Ultegra & DA were only available as a double version; and,

* the 105 came in both a double & triple version with the latter having a small identifying label afixed to the left shifter.

Thanks for all the great advice. As far the comment from alfeng, my 105's are actually 6 years old. Do you still believe there would be little performance advantage by switching to Ultegra? Additionally, many responded that triple shifters will work with double cranks. However, would double shifters work with triple cranks (my situation?). Thanks again.

cycledeep said:

Thanks for all the great advice. As far the comment from alfeng, my 105's are actually 6 years old. Do you still believe there would be little performance advantage by switching to Ultegra? Additionally, many responded that triple shifters will work with double cranks. However, would double shifters work with triple cranks (my situation?). Thanks again.

Even though your shifters are 6 years old, I presume they are 9-speed ...

If you truly want a performance advantage, then I recommend that IF you want a new pair of shifters that you pick up a pair of CAMPAGNOLO ERGO SHIFTERS -- either 9-speed or 10-speed (the latter requires using the hubbub.com adaptation to work with a 9-speed Shimano cassette). REALLY!

I switched to ERGO shifters from Ultegra 6500 9-speed shifters ... INITIALLY, the rest of the drivetrain was still Shimano (see attached picture) ...

The current crank is a DA, but I had both an XTR and Ultegra triple on it ... the front derailleur is Ultegra 6503, the rear derailleur is XTR 950 ... the cassette is a 9-speed XT ... the shifters are 9-speed Mirage ... it works perfectly and is much smoother downshifting onto larger cogs.

Shimano DOUBLE shifters will only work with double cranks as the "cam" (?) lacks the extra notch ...

BTW. To state the obvious, if your shifters LOOK like the ones pictured, then you have 8-speed shifters ... I suppose that not all of the early 9-speed Shimano shifters were triple compatible (and, obviously, DA didn't have triple compatible shifters until a few years ago) ... but, I just don't know. Regardless, at some point, Shimano must have figured out that it didn't cost any more to make all of the shifters triples, in fact it was probably cheaper because there was less stopping-and-starting the production line AND less inventory duplication by providing only a shifter which was both double & triple compatible.

Until someone wins a TdF with Campagnolo shifters, Shimano will probably remain the predominant shifter of choice in the US ... for the time being, Campagnolo shifters are being sold at a discount relative to Shimano shifters ...

Hey Alfeng- Thanks for the awesome advice. I just checked out some Campi components- definitely look nice and a lot less money than Ultegra. Do you have a preference as to the type of Ergo? What do you think or Chorus vs. Centaur (Record is out of my price range)? Thanks again.

cycledeep said:

Hey Alfeng- Thanks for the awesome advice. I just checked out some Campi components- definitely look nice and a lot less money than Ultegra. Do you have a preference as to the type of Ergo? What do you think or Chorus vs. Centaur (Record is out of my price range)? Thanks again.

The great thing about current Campagnolo ERGO shifters is that (for the most part) the "guts" of the ERGO shifters are interchangeable up-and-down the product line ...

The Chorus (and, Record) shifters use a ball bearing "cartridge" for the central shaft while the Centaur (and, Veloce/Mirage/Xenon) uses a bushing & a slightly smaller shaft ...

The Chorus & Record have shorter break-in times ... maybe 400 miles of riding (depends how often you shift/mile), while I would guess it takes 2-to-3 times as long for the Centaur/Veloce/etc. to break-in. They are pretty much good-to-go out of the box, so to even talk about a break-in period may be misleading ... they just seem to get smoother & better for the first 8000+ miles.

The "ultra" variants of the shifters probably have a 4-minute break-in period which will occur when the cables are installed.

The actual difference in the "feel" of the shifters is probably negligible ... until it is time to actually rebuild the shifters with new components. The caveat about rebuilding is that the parts are so expensive that it is cheaper to buy a new component OR cannibalize another shifter (or, whatever the component is).

That's a REALLY LONG WINDED WAY of saying that your preference can be based on cosmetics since the least expensive functions is as capable as the most expensive!

FWIW. The composite inner blades on the Mirage & Xenon are the same as used on the current Record & Chorus EXCEPT for a faux carbon decal on the more expensive levers! The brake lever on the Record & Chorus ARE carbon fiber ...

My preference IS currently (but, that could change) for the solid shift lever blade as one finds on the Veloce, Mirage, Xenon, and Record & later "carbon" Chorus because it is actually a little more comfortable (this is probably more of a princess-and-the-pea situation); but, the cut-out levers shee-yur luk purr-tee ... so, I guess I would recommend the Veloce (some had cut-out levers, BTW) OR Centaur based on what you think your preference is (will be) in that regard ...

The levers which are currently on the Peugeot are Mirage ... they lack snob appeal (which is fine with me) -- one time, when I was sitting under-a-tree, another Campy rider saw my bike & levers (fairly rare out here in New Mexico), but I think that when he saw that I only had Mirage shifters (vs. Record which were the only other "black" levers at the time), he turned around ... or, maybe, he was just turning around.

FWIW. Some people say that you need to go through ALL SORTS OF MACHINATIONS to make the ERGO levers work with Shimano ... I really haven't found that to be the case. I suspect that people who have problems with the indexing either are not familiar with how to dial-it-in OR their frame is out of alignment (OR, my frame's are all out of alignment to the same degree! Unlikely.).

FWIW2. I was so pleased with the fact that it took no effort to make the 9-speed ERGO levers (circa 2000 Chorus, BTW) work with Shimano rear derailleurs that I actually bought a 10-speed lever just to see how well the hubbub.com "solution" for mating a Campagnolo lever with a Shimano rear derailleur worked ... it works fine, too.

OF COURSE, all Campy indexed shifters are triple compatible -- 13 (?) clicks ... NOT infinite as some people think that implies -- takes about two clicks to shift between chainrings.

BTW. The Campagnolo ERGO shifters ALSO work with the Shimano road (as in Ultegra, etc.) rear derailleurs ... at least, the ones I have (6500/6503).

The attachment is my wife's "regular" bike just to show another example ... it started with a FULL Ultegra triple group ... now, the only Ultegra bits are the front derailleur & brake calipers. The rear derailleur is XTR, the crank is XTR, the levers are Chorus 9-speed with an 11-32 XT cassette ... the BB is a 109.5mm Dura Ace; and, the computer is a Shimano Flight Deck.

I was afraid my wife wouldn't like the Chorus shifters (some people HATE Campagnolo shifters; but, having used both Shimano & Campagnolo, I'm not sure why ...), but she loves them, too ...

FYI. The alternate, REAR derailleur cable routing on the handlebar should be avoided ... you'll know what that means when the time comes to mount the levers.

Thanks alfeng. You have been a lot of help. I hope to be enjoying my new shifters very soon!

alfeng said:

The great thing about current Campagnolo ERGO shifters is that (for the most part) the "guts" of the ERGO shifters are interchangeable up-and-down the product line ...

The Chorus (and, Record) shifters use a ball bearing "cartridge" for the central shaft while the Centaur (and, Veloce/Mirage/Xenon) uses a bushing & a slightly smaller shaft ...

The Chorus & Record have shorter break-in times ... maybe 400 miles of riding (depends how often you shift/mile), while I would guess it takes 2-to-3 times as long for the Centaur/Veloce/etc. to break-in. They are pretty much good-to-go out of the box, so to even talk about a break-in period may be misleading ... they just seem to get smoother & better for the first 8000+ miles.

The "ultra" variants of the shifters probably have a 4-minute break-in period which will occur when the cables are installed.

The actual difference in the "feel" of the shifters is probably negligible ... until it is time to actually rebuild the shifters with new components. The caveat about rebuilding is that the parts are so expensive that it is cheaper to buy a new component OR cannibalize another shifter (or, whatever the component is).

That's a REALLY LONG WINDED WAY of saying that your preference can be based on cosmetics since the least expensive functions is as capable as the most expensive!

FWIW. The composite inner blades on the Mirage & Xenon are the same as used on the current Record & Chorus EXCEPT for a faux carbon decal on the more expensive levers! The brake lever on the Record & Chorus ARE carbon fiber ...

My preference IS currently (but, that could change) for the solid shift lever blade as one finds on the Veloce, Mirage, Xenon, and Record & later "carbon" Chorus because it is actually a little more comfortable (this is probably more of a princess-and-the-pea situation); but, the cut-out levers shee-yur luk purr-tee ... so, I guess I would recommend the Veloce (some had cut-out levers, BTW) OR Centaur based on what you think your preference is (will be) in that regard ...

The levers which are currently on the Peugeot are Mirage ... they lack snob appeal (which is fine with me) -- one time, when I was sitting under-a-tree, another Campy rider saw my bike & levers (fairly rare out here in New Mexico), but I think that when he saw that I only had Mirage shifters (vs. Record which were the only other "black" levers at the time), he turned around ... or, maybe, he was just turning around.

FWIW. Some people say that you need to go through ALL SORTS OF MACHINATIONS to make the ERGO levers work with Shimano ... I really haven't found that to be the case. I suspect that people who have problems with the indexing either are not familiar with how to dial-it-in OR their frame is out of alignment (OR, my frame's are all out of alignment to the same degree! Unlikely.).

FWIW2. I was so pleased with the fact that it took no effort to make the 9-speed ERGO levers (circa 2000 Chorus, BTW) work with Shimano rear derailleurs that I actually bought a 10-speed lever just to see how well the hubbub.com "solution" for mating a Campagnolo lever with a Shimano rear derailleur worked ... it works fine, too.

OF COURSE, all Campy indexed shifters are triple compatible -- 13 (?) clicks ... NOT infinite as some people think that implies -- takes about two clicks to shift between chainrings.

BTW. The Campagnolo ERGO shifters ALSO work with the Shimano road (as in Ultegra, etc.) rear derailleurs ... at least, the ones I have (6500/6503).

The attachment is my wife's "regular" bike just to show another example ... it started with a FULL Ultegra triple group ... now, the only Ultegra bits are the front derailleur & brake calipers. The rear derailleur is XTR, the crank is XTR, the levers are Chorus 9-speed with an 11-32 XT cassette ... the BB is a 109.5mm Dura Ace; and, the computer is a Shimano Flight Deck.

I was afraid my wife wouldn't like the Chorus shifters (some people HATE Campagnolo shifters; but, having used both Shimano & Campagnolo, I'm not sure why ...), but she loves them, too ...

FYI. The alternate, REAR derailleur cable routing on the handlebar should be avoided ... you'll know what that means when the time comes to mount the levers.