Where there's a buck.....

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Apparently the mighty Honda seem to think there's something in this congestion malarky....
autoexpress.co.ukae news story.phpOpen ↗

It says "Yess, Ssangyong Is Back In Britain"

so I, for one, have no idea what you are on about.

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Apparently the mighty Honda seem to think there's something in this congestion malarky....
autoexpress.co.ukae news story.phpOpen ↗

It says "Yess, Ssangyong Is Back In Britain"

so I, for one, have no idea what you are on about.

Ooops!!...my mistake, back in a mo <blush!

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Apparently the mighty Honda seem to think there's something in this congestion malarky....
<removed due to [censored] testing on my part - Dave>

Quoted message said:

It says "Yess, Ssangyong Is Back In Britain"

so I, for one, have no idea what you are on about.

<Ahem!! - blush>....my mistake. Ok, got it and tested it this time, so same comments as above with
this link..... autoexpress.co.ukautoexpress.co.ukOpen ↗

Dave.

ps - Ssangyong aren't back in the UK ;-)....in fact if all car manufacturers treated their customers
the way Ssangyong do, there wouldn't be nearly as much traffic on the roads....

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<Ahem!! - blush>....my mistake. Ok, got it and tested it this time, so same comments as above with
this link..... autoexpress.co.ukautoexpress.co.ukOpen ↗

Based on

"The bike automatically fires up an electric motor to make riding up hills easier, then recharges as
you freewheel down again"

they seem to have either invented an 'infinite improbability drive' or you are going to have massive
battery or you will have to pedal like stink to make it work.

T

Dave said:

Apologies for not being one of them short-ars*d links, don't know how to do 'em and not aware of
the problems with the biggies. No doubt someone out there will enlighten me ;-)

The problem is that editors for mail and news clients are typically set to wordwrap your text to 70
columns. This is to ensure that even when quoted it is readable on an 80 column display. But URLs
are frequently longer than 80 columns, and if they get worwrapped they typically don't work.

This problem was forseen when URLs were invented. The RFC which defines the syntax of URLs (RFC1738)
also defines a syntax for including them in plain text documents such as emails and usenet posts.
That syntax is to prefix the URL with the string '<URL' and postfix it with the string '>'.

Thus to embed the URL jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗ in a post you should be able to just type
<URL:http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/> and have a guarantee that all news clients would interpret
it correctly even if it gets wordwrapped.

As usual Microsoft decided they were too clever and sophisticated to follow the standard as it
is written down, and so many versions of Outlook Express will not correctly interpret a URL
written as the standard dictates. A workaround which works for many news clients is to put
spaces between the prefix, the URL and the postfix, thus: <URL:
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗ >. Standards-conforming news clients should understand this,
but Outlook Express can also understand it.

However, remembering all these special cases is a bit tough, so the various makeashorterurl services
offer to make you a URL which is so short it won't get wordwrapped anyway.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

Age equals angst multiplied by the speed of fright squared.
;; the Worlock

Tony W said:

Based on

"The bike automatically fires up an electric motor to make riding up hills easier, then recharges
as you freewheel down again"

they seem to have either invented an 'infinite improbability drive' or you are going to have
massive battery or you will have to pedal like stink to make it work.

Not really, its fairly standard fare in electric vehicles known as regenerative braking. The Swiss
even did it with mechanical flywheels on their mountain buses at one stage IIRC. On a bike you can
also afford to store up energy by adding a little bit to the pedalling effort when the effort is low
(downhill and flat) so you can give the energy back when the effort is high (uphill)

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave said:

Apologies for not being one of them short-ars*d links, don't know how to

do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

'em and not aware of the problems with the biggies. No doubt someone out there will enlighten
me ;-)

The problem is that editors for mail and news clients are typically set to wordwrap your text to
70 columns. This is to ensure that even when quoted it is readable on an 80 column display. But
URLs are frequently longer than 80 columns, and if they get worwrapped they typically don't work.

This problem was forseen when URLs were invented. The RFC which defines the syntax of URLs
(RFC1738) also defines a syntax for including them in plain text documents such as emails and
usenet posts. That syntax is to prefix the URL with the string '<URL' and postfix it with the
string '>'.

Thus to embed the URL jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗ in a post you should be able to just type
<URL:http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/> and have a guarantee that all news clients would interpret
it correctly even if it gets wordwrapped.

As usual Microsoft decided they were too clever and sophisticated to follow the standard as it is
written down, and so many versions of Outlook Express will not correctly interpret a URL written
as the standard dictates. A workaround which works for many news clients is to put spaces between
the prefix, the URL and the postfix, thus: <URL: jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗ >.
Standards-conforming news clients should understand this, but Outlook Express can also understand

it.

Quoted message said:

However, remembering all these special cases is a bit tough, so the various makeashorterurl
services offer to make you a URL which is so short it won't get wordwrapped anyway.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

Age equals angst multiplied by the speed of fright squared. ;; the Worlock

Thanks Simon, so much clearer now.....if only you'd gone into the makeashorterurl bit a bit
more....I'll google that bit...one day!! ;-) cheers, Dave.

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<Ahem!! - blush>....my mistake. Ok, got it and tested it this time, so same comments as above with
this link..... autoexpress.co.ukautoexpress.co.ukOpen ↗

Pictured is Hondas new downhill bike. It has an internal gearbox that handles the shifting but no
electric motor that I've heard of.

Mike - even an electric motor would have trouble getting that thing uphill.

In article <[email hidden]>, no- [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Thanks Simon, so much clearer now.....if only you'd gone into the makeashorterurl bit a bit
more....I'll google that bit...one day!! ;-) cheers,

That bit's easy, makeashorterlink.com and tinyurl.com both take a long url perform a hash on it to
make a short, but meaningless (to a human) one, and then create a redirect from the short to the
long---they'll maintain some sort of look-up table on their site.

To use these services copy the link you want to shorten, paste it into the box at either of their
websites[1] then copy the shorter link they give you for use in emails and news postings.

makeashorterlink.com has a slight advantage in that it tells the redirectee where they are going to
be redirected to and gives a short time to cancel. tinyurl.com just take you straight there. For
this reason some people don't trust redirected links so it can be useful to post the actual, if
line-broken, link to help assure people that they won't be launching a whole series of pop-up [censored]
images when they click on the url.

Colin
[1] Other link shortening services may be available!

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not really, its fairly standard fare in electric vehicles known as regenerative braking.

Which typically recovers 10 to 30% of the energy at best. Worth having but not briliant.

Pehaps I was being harsh, but their description seemed more like 100% recovery.

Quoted message said:

The Swiss even did it with mechanical flywheels on their mountain buses at one stage IIRC.

Yes. There were several attempts at flywheel storage. It actually makes a lot of ence.

Quoted message said:

On a bike you can also afford to store up energy by adding a little bit to the pedalling effort
when the effort is low (downhill and flat) so you can give the energy back when the effort is high
(uphill)

Altenatively, you can just pedal a bit faster on the down hill, store kinetic energy in your
body/bike mass and slow down on the way back up the next slope.

T

Tony Raven tried to scribble ...

Quoted message said:

Tony W said:

Based on

"The bike automatically fires up an electric motor to make riding up hills easier, then recharges
as you freewheel down again"

they seem to have either invented an 'infinite improbability drive' or you are going to have
massive battery or you will have to pedal like stink to make it work.

Not really, its fairly standard fare in electric vehicles known as regenerative braking. The Swiss
even did it with mechanical flywheels on their mountain buses at one stage IIRC. On a bike you can
also afford to store up energy by adding a little bit to the pedalling effort when the effort is
low (downhill and flat) so you can give the energy back when the effort is high (uphill)

Tony

It's also used in Radio Control racing .. Not quite perfect, but makes a great difference to run
times. A typical race and battery run-down time is 5 minutes, with regenerative braking this run
time can extend another 30 seconds, or make the whole 5 minutes at a much higher speed .. 😉 As a
racer, we generally go for speed, though we have had 'slow' races where motors have run for over 30
minutes on one battery pack .. 😉

--
Digweed '79 Beamish RL 250, '85 Swift Corvette, '88 Ford Escort 1.6 Ghia, '95 Dyna-Tech CroMo Comp,
'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi, '02 Schumacher CAT 3000, '03 Losi Kinwald Triple-X, '03 Associated
RC10 B4 .... 😉

In article said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

On a bike you can also afford to store up energy by adding a little bit to the pedalling effort
when the effort is low (downhill and flat) so you can give the energy back when the effort is
high (uphill)

Altenatively, you can just pedal a bit faster on the down hill, store kinetic energy in your
body/bike mass and slow down on the way back up the next slope.

That doesn't work so well if there are traffic lights or a sharp bend at the bottom of the hill.
Where it does work it's the simplest and most efficient system though, yes.

Alan Braggins said:

In article said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

On a bike you can also afford to store up energy by adding a little bit to the pedalling effort
when the effort is low (downhill and flat) so you can give the energy back when the effort is
high (uphill)

Altenatively, you can just pedal a bit faster on the down hill, store kinetic energy in your
body/bike mass and slow down on the way back up the next slope.

That doesn't work so well if there are traffic lights or a sharp bend at the bottom of the hill.
Where it does work it's the simplest and most efficient system though, yes.

It also doesn't work where there is a long flat before the hill. The kinetic energy store only
allows you to build up a small amount of energy amounting to the last downhill. With the electrical
system you could cycle ten miles on the flat and then get help up the hill. The kinetic energy
system would not be able to store much energy at all over the ten miles and would deplete quickly
on the hill.

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

Tony W said:

Quoted message said:

On a bike you can also afford to store up energy by adding a little bit to the pedalling effort
when the effort is low (downhill and flat) so you can give the energy back when the effort is
high (uphill)

Altenatively, you can just pedal a bit faster on the down hill, store kinetic energy in your
body/bike mass and slow down on the way back up the next slope.

Unfortunately that doesn't work terribly well either. Even a hill as small as 20m would take up to
45mph, but air resistance will take a great big chunk out of your hard-earned kinetic energy.

Andy

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That doesn't work so well if there are traffic lights or a sharp bend at the bottom of the hill.
Where it does work it's the simplest and most efficient system though, yes.

No energy storage system works well if you have to disipate the energy before you can put it to
work. Going fast stores kinetic energy very efficiently -- but it is not stored 'independently' of
the vehicle (e.g. in a battery of some type).

Quoted message said:

It also doesn't work where there is a long flat before the hill.

It does -- just not very well. Again, the problem is that the energy store is not independent of
the vehicle.

Quoted message said:

The kinetic energy store only allows you to build up a small amount of energy amounting to the
last downhill. With the electrical system

Or any battery system with a seperate energy store (electrical, mechanical hydraulic etc.)

Quoted message said:

you could cycle ten miles on the flat and then get help up the hill.

True, but at a much lower cycle (not bicycle) efficiency.

Quoted message said:

The kinetic energy system would not be able to store much energy at all over the ten miles

and

Quoted message said:

would deplete quickly on the hill.

Sadly, correct.

That's the problem with cycling -- most of it is up hill :~(

In article <[email hidden]>, no- [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Apparently the mighty Honda seem to think there's something in this congestion malarky....
<removed due to [censored] testing on my part - Dave>

Quoted message said:

It says "Yess, Ssangyong Is Back In Britain"

so I, for one, have no idea what you are on about.

<Ahem!! - blush>....my mistake. Ok, got it and tested it this time, so same comments as above with
this link..... autoexpress.co.ukautoexpress.co.ukOpen ↗

Dave.

ps - Ssangyong aren't back in the UK ;-)....in fact if all car manufacturers treated their
customers the way Ssangyong do, there wouldn't be nearly as much traffic on the roads....

I knew Honda had to be making that DH bike that wasn't for sale for some reason.. Honda has been
under the impression that there is a huge market for electric assist bicycles for a few years now.
Of course a company that big could make a market where there is none anyway.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia ramsays-online.comramsays-online.comOpen ↗

Tony W said:

Yes. There were several attempts at flywheel storage. It actually makes a lot of ence.

If a lot of sense is ense, is a lot of ence nce?

Trev

On Wed24Sep03-2017

Quoted post said:

Thanks Simon, so much clearer now.....if only you'd gone into the makeashorterurl bit a bit
more....I'll google that bit...one day!! ;-) cheers,

tinyurl.comcreate.phpOpen ↗

--

QUIPd 1.02: (78 of 647) -> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember -> that
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. -> Therefore, if you can't get them
together again, there must be a -> reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. --IBM maintenance ->
manual, 1925
##2082 #'Mandrake Linux.'

Tony W said:

That's the problem with cycling -- most of it is up hill :~(

Fit a smaller front wheel, or even just a smaller front tyre. Then the bike will be going down hill.

Tim
--
In space no one can eat ice cream