police stepping it up?

That's almost certainly not the whole story. It never is.

The fact that he is refered to as a "stunt unicyclist" even though
stunts do not appear in the narrative shows that the journalist was
trying to make bricks without straw - during a clay shortage.

It does sound like heavy-handed policing. On the other hand, the
police officer's first reponsibility is to protect the public as a
whole. The problem with cyclists in pedestrian areas is a serious one.
It is dangerous for old people and children. The police officer may
well have felt that the argument for an appearance of consistency was
more convincing than the bar-room lawyer's argument that a person
riding on a unicycle is a pedestrian because a unicycle has no brakes.

As unicyclists, we no doubt all feel some tribal loyalty to this
particular rider, and it may well be that he was doing nothing
inherently dangerous. However, I think he was unwise to try to be
clever about legal definitions. At least he got some free publicity
for his charity ride.

--
Mikefule

Is it the gods who put this ardour into our minds, or does every man's
irresistible desire become his god?
(Virgil)
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There is another thread somewhere about this - actually it may be in
JJuggle's thread. I've met Pete a few times and always found him a
quiet and unassuming person. I can't imagine him deliberately causing
trouble. He's MrBoogiejuice's mate.

Cathy

--
cathwood

Say no to unicycle genre discrimination! - MrBoogiejuice

http://www.chuckingandtwirling.co.uk
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Mikefule said:

That's almost certainly not the whole story. It never is.

However, I think he was unwise to try to be clever about legal
definitions. At least he got some free publicity for his charity ride.

Just to clear things up a little. My understanding of what happened was
that Pete was just riding, and definitely was not doing anything
dangerous.

I don't think he was trying to be clever, he was just saying why he
thought unicycling was allowed on pavements and didn't quote any laws,
just an assumption that we all make that unicycling on pavements is
legal.

Being a smart-[censored] law student I feel the need to be clever about legal
definitions (come on, it's all we can do:p )

Unicycling on pavements is legal. The liberal theory of the state that
underpins all British (and non-dictatorial for that matter) legal
thinking and lawmaking is essentially that outside of the law we are
free (J.S. Mill etc)
Since unicycling on pavements is not prohibited by law as biking is,
Pete was well within his rights. Any attempt by the police to stop him
is an abuse of their power since they can't just go around making the
law up as they see fit. I know he wasn't prosecuted but that's beside
the point, the officer had no right to stop him and issue that form.

Personally I think what the policeman did was disgusting😠 , and if
he thought it was dangerous he could have asked politely and Pete would
have obliged. There was no need for what he did and I think people need
to stand up to the police if and when they try things like this for our
own sake. It's just not safe to unicycle on roads all of the time apart
from anything else.

UNICYCLISTS UNITE! FIGHT THE POWER! AND OTHER SUCH ANARCHIC SLOGANS,
MANY INVOLVING "THE MAN":p

--
matt_t

You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless. You gotta hope even
more, and cover your ears and go 'bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla!'

Arrrrrr. Yarrrrrr. etc.
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matt_t said:

Just to clear things up a little. My understanding of what happened was
that Pete was just riding, and definitely was not doing anything
dangerous.

Being a smart-[censored] law student I feel the need to be clever about legal
definitions (come on, it's all we can do:p )

Unicycling on pavements is legal.

When riding on pavements I keep a clear distance from any pedestrians.
The distance is larger than that at which I know I can guarantee the
pedestrians safety. I will stop, lean against a lamp post and wave
them past at times. The better the unicyclist the closer the distance
at which he is safe. But the pedestrian and the policeman do not know
that.
I suspect this was more a "Stop what you are doing because I judge
that the public might be in danger" rather than " Unicycling is a
danger to the public and therefore you must stop it."

Nao

--
Naomi

I am not renowned for my political correctness. I apologise profusely
if I have, as yet, said absolutely nothing to offend you. An oversight
I shall no doubt deal with at the first opportunity.

Every breath you take, every move you make... contributes towards
global warming.
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Your household insurance pokicy no doubt refers to pedal cycles, rather
than bicycles. If your unicycle was stolen, would you claim under that
section? I think you would.

On that basis, if a sign or law says no cycling, then the same logic
should apply.

If a police officer feels, rightly or wrongly, that someone's actions
may be dangerous, or intimidating to ordinary members of the public,
then the police officer has a duty to deal with the situation to reduce
the eprceived risk. He or she can only act on the strength of
experience and training. There are cases every day which fall into
legal grey areas, or where a literal interpretation of the law is
unreasonable or impractical.

I am not saying the unicyclist was wrong to be unicycling here, or that
he was riding dangerously. I accept the opinions of those who say he
wasn't. I do not agree with his interpetation of the law, but that is
open to reasonable debate and quoting of statute and case law and so
on. I do think he was -unwise - to approach the situation in this
way.

"I'm sorry officer. I didn't realise it wasn't allowed here," may
well have led to a mild chiding, followed by a more friendly
conversation, followed by the copper making a generous concession to
let him ride after all.

As a motorist, motorcyclist, and cyclist, the respectful "sorry
officer" approach has worked for me on every occasion except once.
(And that was at a place notorious for coppers stopping bikers, on a
very wet day when I was the only biker for miles, and the policeman's
lot was a particularly unhappy one.)

As soon as you tell a copper he is in the wrong, you have forced him to
prove that he is right - regardless of the facts. There is a simple
Freudian explanation that would be obvious if you were to see a police
officer in the shower.

--
Mikefule

Is it the gods who put this ardour into our minds, or does every man's
irresistible desire become his god?
(Virgil)
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Years ago(like 32) I was riding to school on my Uni and a police officer
pulled me over for alledgedly running a red light. After a friendly
conversation, he let me go saying "It is just as well as I did not know
whether to write you up as a pedestrian or vehicle." By the way, I did
not run the light.

--
jrdugueod

"Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right!"
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apparently you're not allowed to ride bikes on the pavement but if the
police ever stop me on my uni then my plan is to say, tell you what if
you can ride it then i'll let you stop me but if you can't then i'm
going to carry on, (this is probably going to end up with the poilce
being called Sergant Holm then i'm buggered!)

--
treepotato

Some unicycles can give nasty pedal bites.....i still have the scars to
prove it
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But how can they claim that you're not allowed to cycle on the pavement
when at least half of the cycle paths round here are on the pavement.

Cathy

--
cathwood

Say no to unicycle genre discrimination! - MrBoogiejuice

http://www.chuckingandtwirling.co.uk
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I'm surprised no-one's posted 'this'
(http://unicycle.org.uk/thelaw.html) yet🙂

Whilst I would be the first to agree with the others in this thread(not
to mention common sense) that the obvious place to ride a 20" unicycle
is on the pavement, under the law a unicycle is counted as a pedal
cycle and as such subject to all the cycling laws. And to be honest, If
you're trying to argue that a unicycle should be counted as a cycle
then its probably unwise to say you're taking part in a bikeathon:p

cathwood said:

But how can they claim that you're not allowed to cycle on the pavement
when at least half of the cycle paths round here are on the pavement.

Cathy

I'm not really sure I see your point here. Cyclists are -not- allowed
on the pavement unless specifically stated otherwise. Similar to the
idea that a stretch of road with streetlights is -always- subject to a
30mph speed limit, unless specifically stated otherwise.

--
theamazingmolio

Luke Duller ([email hidden])
Never trust anything you read on the internet
'~*~*Random Forums*~*~ ' (www.randomforums.tk)
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actually there is also sommat about speed limit, where smaller unicycles
count as being allowed on the pavement, i'll have a dig around for it.

--
zippy
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The specific laws vary by country, state, county, city so it's not
really worth bothering to sort out. But I think in general the best
response when a cop asks you not to ride somewhere is to say, "I am
sorry I didn't realize" then WALK away.

As far as my memory of the forum only one person has ever gotten a
ticket for unicyclign and that was because he was cokering in a buses
only lane and it had nothing to do with his mode of transportation.

--
ThisGuyIKnow
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Mike, you were right when you said it wasn't the full story. Let me try
to explain what happened and why they were so miffed. I wrote a big
post about this last night but then my 'pooter crashed so forgive me if
I lose patience with this post and stop before explaining properly.

The reason they went to the Macc Express was not because of the
technicalities of why they were stopped but because of one of the
officer's behaviour and attitude. It just so happened that this
occurred the week after Pete had been in the paper for two weeks
running because of various unicycle antics. Probably why the journalist
referred to him as a "stunt cyclist"

Petit Pierre and my sister were on Mill Street in Macc with another
friend of ours, Kristen. Han was on the unicycle with a hand on Pete's
shoulder talking to Kristen when the two policemen approached. I shall
refer to them from here as "Good Cop" and "Bad Cop."

GC asked Han to get off the unicycle so they could have a word. She
obliged and Pete asked what the problem was. GC then explained that he
thought it was dangerous, pedestrianised area etc. At which point BC
chimed in when Pete was talking to GC saying things like: "If you want
to be immature then go and play in the park". Any time Pete or Han
tried to respond, at the first murmer they were told to shut up by BC.

GC was looking on the whole time and was obviously becoming uneasy at
BC's behaviour. BC basically went into a ten minute unprovoked rant at
Pete and Han telling them they were disrespectful, rude and was
generally being an [censored]. Pete and han were nothing but respectful given
the circumstances and have never been in any kind of trouble with the
police. They appealed to GC saying that his colleague was being totally
unreasonable. To which he mumbled a fairly non-commital answer.

The galling thing is that whilst they were being given this dressing
down several bikes and cars came down the road. For most of l;ast year
I rode up and down the street twice a day to go to and from work and
never had a problem. I think this was a slight case of people being
judged by their image. I can't really say I blame him though...Kristen
and my sister do tend to look like they've been dragged through a
psychedelic, day-glo bush backwards. Kristen also seems to have ended
up with a lot of twigs from said bush stuck in holes in her face.

Anyway, once the policeman had finished his rant he wrote Pete out a
stop form and took Hannah's details. He couldn't give her a stop form
at the time as he'd run out of them. Apparently BC had to ask what a
one wheeled bike was called to put on the form...Doh. Watching him try
and write a description of Hannah's clothing was aapparently pretty
comical too. She's the only girl I know who's wardrobe should come with
an epilepsy warning!

So the main issues here are that he wasted nearly half an hour of Pete
and Hannah's time when a simple "would you mind getting off and
walking...No go on, on yer way yer wee one wheeled scamps" would have
sufficed. Not to mention wasting their own time. This in a week when
there was an armed robbery not a hundred meters from the police station
and so far, no one's been arrested yet. But mainly it was the behaviour
of BC.

Since this happened someone has come into the pub where I work and said
that his wife had seen the goings on and was amazed at how unreasonable
the policeman was being and should they want her help for the complain
then it's there.

So this isn't really an issue of the intricacies of cycling law but one
of annoyance at a total lack of respect from someone we've always been
taught to, and always have, shown respect to.

--
MrBoogiejuice

---unicycle for Bilious - The Oh-God of hangovers---
Make crumbs not War!
Just blame it on the boogie...
www.unicyclepics.co.uk Get your pics out!
Send submissions to [email hidden]
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well i think we all need to go down for a day and ride through the town
in force 😄

Since they turned the highstreet into a pedestrians only zone, would be
fun 😄

--
zippy
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I'm up for that!😄

--
Rodgeriego

- *http://www.unicyclepics.co.uk/joe.s.htm*
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Macc's own self appointed man of the people has turned his pen to this
story.

'klick me' (http://tinyurl.com/eavm9)

I can't stand this chap, Vic Barlow. He runs a forum called Barlow's
Beef that's an absolute sham. I post on and promote the alternative
Macc forum, ASTM (All Stations To Macclesfield) which is a much nicer
place to be than Chez Barlow.

See what an independant media watchdog has said about Mr Barlow's forum
'here' (http://tinyurl.com/ldcnh)

--
MrBoogiejuice

---unicycle for Bilious - The Oh-God of hangovers---
Make crumbs not War!
Just blame it on the boogie...
www.unicyclepics.co.uk Get your pics out!
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zippy said:

well i think we all need to go down for a day and ride through the town
in force 😄

Since they turned the highstreet into a pedestrians only zone, would be
fun 😄

I'm well up for that too. They deserve an apology and us unicylists
shouldn't stand for being treated like that!

Also (smart-[censored] student mode here, sorry mike!:p ) Unicycling on
pavements is most definitely legal in the UK so we have nothing to
worry about. If the police say otherwise you just ask them what law
they are acting under and they'll be stumped and have to let you on
your way.

--
matt_t

You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless. You gotta hope even
more, and cover your ears and go 'bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla!'

Arrrrrr. Yarrrrrr. etc.
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theamazingmolio said:

I'm surprised no-one's posted

I'm not really sure I see your point here. Cyclists are -not- allowed
on the pavement unless specifically stated otherwise. Similar to the
idea that a stretch of road with streetlights is -always- subject to a
30mph speed limit, unless specifically stated otherwise.

I disagree. I think paintining a bicycle on the pavement and calling it
a cycle path muddies the water for riding on pavments. After all,
sometimes all there is is a white line on the pavement to indicate that
it is a cycle path.

Cathy

--
cathwood

Say no to unicycle genre discrimination! - MrBoogiejuice

http://www.chuckingandtwirling.co.uk
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matt_t said:

Also (smart-[censored] student mode here, sorry mike!:p ) Unicycling on
pavements is most definitely legal in the UK so we have nothing to
worry about. If the police say otherwise you just ask them what law
they are acting under and they'll be stumped and have to let you on
your way.

How a different smart [censored] student explained this to me is:

They could say that cycling on the pavement is an offence under Section
72 of the Highways Act 1835. They could also say that whilst there
hasn't been any case law to clarify whether unicycles are included in
the definition of cycle used by that law and the modification to
include cycles (Local Government Act 1888 - section 85), which is
"bicycles, tricycles, velocipedes and other similar machines", given
the uncertainty, they'd be justified in stopping you. In that case
you'd only be able to try to avoid any fine they gave you by going to a
prosecution. At that point you might try to argue that your unicycle is
not a similar machine to a bicycle. Although that'd be hard to argue
given the various pieces of later legislation using a definition that
includes unicycles.

What Pete did in not being confrontational sounds much more sensible
than being a smart-[censored] would be, whilst it's a bummer to get hassled
by the police, (which does tend to happen more if you look like a bit
of a hippy doesn't it, grrr) it's better to get away without having
started a massive argument with an obviously confrontational police
officer which would be the first thing that would have happened if
they'd been smart arses.

Joe

--
joemarshall

my pics http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albuq44
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Apparently (i.e. somebody told me but I haven't actually looked it up
myself) the Highway Code has been changed to include unicycles where it
mentions cycles, so that would suggest that a unicycle is treated the
same as a bicycle officially.

Rob

--
rob.northcott

'Dartmoor Muni Weekend'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46116) - Last
weekend in May 2006
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