Sustrans routes

In article said:

I read the C2C booklet last month and nowhere does it mention that "proper" bikes are unsuitable
for completing the route. Sorry guys, but the NCN isn't going to be anything other than a weekend
leisure activity unless you can get some blacktop out there. Most people like to have mudguards
and road tyres on their commuting bikes!

We're planning ahead for the Sea2Sea (Whitehaven to Sunderland) next April/May, and again planning
on using recumbent road trikes. Looking at the map, there are a lot of "white road" alternatives. Do
you have any experience of this route?

Other fun of Sustrans, though they say they're getting rid of them, are the anti-tandem gates. That
said, motorbikes may be more annoying.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a
one way street, _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twighlight Zone.

Zog The Undeniable said:

I had the dubious pleasure of negotiating a mile of Route 4 on my road bike with 18mm tyres this
morning - railway ballast and deep sand seemed to be the order of the day. Are most of them like
that, and if so, why can't Sustrans be more upfront about the fact that they're MTB-only (I
wouldn't even have wanted to take my expedition tourer down there!)

and the MTB riders moan that they are too sanitized!

Sustrans is in a no win situation here, lets just say they are suitable for most bikes.

Steve

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had the dubious pleasure of negotiating a mile of Route 4 on my road bike with 18mm tyres this
morning - railway ballast and deep sand seemed to be the order of the day. Are most of them like
that, and if so, why can't Sustrans be more upfront about the fact that they're MTB-only (I
wouldn't even have wanted to take my expedition tourer down there!)

The routes are not MTB only. I did the C2C with 700 x 23 tyres and survived the two day experience
though admittedly the wheels needed attention afterwards after coping with my 21 stone frame and
full camping gear. I saw the full range of pedal powered transport apart from recumbents on the C2C
plus electric buggies and wheelchairs. There nearly always is a road alternative if you consider the
cyclepath to be too vicious for your bike. There is no compulsion to follow the route slavishly.

Quoted message said:

I read the C2C booklet last month and nowhere does it mention that "proper" bikes are unsuitable
for completing the route. Sorry guys, but the NCN isn't going to be anything other than a weekend
leisure activity unless you can get some blacktop out there. Most people like to have mudguards
and road tyres on their commuting bikes!

Think of the the extraordinary expense of quality blacktop and consider what the size of the NCN
might be if all cycle paths were tarmac'ed.

I've nothing but praise for the C2C and Three Rivers routes on the NCN. My only quibble is with the
erratic signposting (probably stolen by local youths).

Vernon in Leeds

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We're planning ahead for the Sea2Sea (Whitehaven to Sunderland) next April/May, and again planning
on using recumbent road trikes. Looking at the map, there are a lot of "white road" alternatives.
Do you have any experience of this route?

The parts of the route that are on old railway lines are not particularly recumbent, tandem or fully
laden touring bike friendly as there are a range of barriers deployed to keep motor cycles off the
route. Many of the traps can be bypassed by lifting the recumbents over the 'equine hurdles' for
want of a better description.

Quoted message said:

Other fun of Sustrans, though they say they're getting rid of them, are the anti-tandem gates.
That said, motorbikes may be more annoying.

The gates seem to be doing their job, I didn't see a single motor cycle or any evidence that they's
been on the tracks.

Vernon In Leeds

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I had the dubious pleasure of negotiating a mile of Route 4 on my road bike with 18mm tyres this
morning - railway ballast and deep sand seemed to be the order of the day. Are most of them like
that, and if so, why can't Sustrans be more upfront about the fact that they're MTB-only (I
wouldn't even have wanted to take my expedition tourer down there!)

I regularly ride bits of Route 4 between between Bristol and Chepstow on route to the Forest of
Dean. The signed route up the old towpath on one side of the River Avon is loose surfaced but very
scenic. You can ride up the tarmac cyclepath on the other side of the river which is a shorter route
but it isn't signed as an alternative which I think it ought to be. After that various bits of
traffic free path have been popping up over the last few years. They're all tarmac bar one which is
still pretty good. I've yet to see a single other cyclist using them though. It appears to be just
me and the rabbits.

One Sustrans signed bit I followed a few years ago somewhere betweeen the end of the Tarka Trail and
Ilfracombe I couldn't even manage on an MTB. Steep, stony and I had to fight my way through
undergrowth in places. Certainly very little room to pass anyone coming the other way. Don't know
what it's like now.

VERNON LEVY said:

Quoted message said:

We're planning ahead for the Sea2Sea (Whitehaven to Sunderland) next April/May, and again
planning on using recumbent road trikes. Looking at the map, there are a lot of "white road"
alternatives. Do you have any experience of this route?

The parts of the route that are on old railway lines are not particularly recumbent, tandem or
fully laden touring bike friendly as there are a range of barriers deployed to keep motor cycles
off the route. Many of the traps can be bypassed by lifting the recumbents over the 'equine
hurdles' for want of a better description.

OK, we're also planning on being on the C2C next April, and have been discussing which bikes to
take. The choice is between fairly light road bikes - the sort you serious roadies would probably
consider fit only as winter, training or commuting bikes - and good light hill bikes, which we'd
probably fit with hybrid tyres for the trip. We don't have 'touring' style bikes, and I don't think
I could fit touring style tyres on my road bike because it hasn't much clearance.

Riding hill bikes on tarmac for hour after hour isn't any sort of fun. But equally riding a bike
with skinny road tyres on old railway ballast for miles doesn't appeal much either. A lot of the
route photos at <URL: c2c-guide.co.ukc2c-guide.co.ukOpen ↗ > show surfaces which don't look at all friendly
to road tyres.

Any advice? My main objective is to enjoy the route as much as possible; I'm not out to set any
records or prove anything to anyone. I appreciate that the serious 'off-road' sections like the old
coach road have 'on-road' alternatives, but can you reasonably complete the whole route
_comfortably_ on skinny road tyres?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

'You cannot put "The Internet" into the Recycle Bin.'

Quoted message said:

Any advice? My main objective is to enjoy the route as much as possible; I'm not out to set any
records or prove anything to anyone. I appreciate that the serious 'off-road' sections like the
old coach road have 'on-road' alternatives, but can you reasonably complete the whole route
_comfortably_ on skinny road tyres?

Yes. I got only two punctures. The sections with loose surfaces were OK. Some of the hills make
owners of two ring set ups wish for a third ring - I did a fair amount of pushing but there again, I
weigh 20 stone and was carrying 30-40 pound of kit. CAn't wait 'til I'm leaner and meaner :-)

Vernon

"VERNON LEVY" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

The routes are not MTB only. I did the C2C with 700 x 23 tyres and survived the two day experience
though admittedly the wheels needed attention afterwards after coping with my 21 stone frame and
full camping gear. I saw

^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

the full range of pedal powered transport apart from recumbents on the C2C plus electric buggies
and wheelchairs. There nearly always is a road alternative if you consider the cyclepath to be too
vicious for your bike. There is no compulsion to follow the route slavishly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any advice? My main objective is to enjoy the route as much as possible; I'm not out to set any
records or prove anything to anyone. I appreciate that the serious 'off-road' sections like the
old coach road have 'on-road' alternatives, but can you reasonably complete the whole route
_comfortably_ on skinny road tyres?

Yes. I got only two punctures. The sections with loose surfaces were OK. Some of the hills make
owners of two ring set ups wish for a third ring - I did a fair amount of pushing but there again,
I weigh 20 stone and was

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

carrying 30-40 pound of kit. CAn't wait 'til I'm leaner and meaner :-)

You seem to have lost a stone already. Well done!!

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had the dubious pleasure of negotiating a mile of Route 4 on my road bike with 18mm tyres this
morning - railway ballast and deep sand seemed to be the order of the day. Are most of them like
that, and if so, why can't Sustrans be more upfront about the fact that they're MTB-only (I
wouldn't even have wanted to take my expedition tourer down there!)

I read the C2C booklet last month and nowhere does it mention that "proper" bikes are unsuitable
for completing the route. Sorry guys, but the NCN isn't going to be anything other than a weekend
leisure activity unless you can get some blacktop out there. Most people like to have mudguards
and road tyres on their commuting bikes!

On the other hand, the tarmac path from M4 J16 to Swindon town centre is nice...it bypasses a
piece of 70mph dual carriageway, which in itself wouldn't be so bad if there weren't wheel-eating
drains every 100 yds :-)

That's why a hybrid is useful. Mine has 700C X 36 tyres and has no problem on gravel tracks,
foreshores, chalk tracks, grass fields etc. The only thing it baulks at is deep loose pebbles .

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

I read the C2C booklet last month and nowhere does it mention that "proper" bikes are unsuitable
for completing the route. Sorry guys, but the NCN isn't going to be anything other than a weekend
leisure activity unless you can get some blacktop out there. Most people like to have mudguards and
road tyres on their commuting bikes!

I thought they were largely a leisure thing, a sort of Offas Dyke PAth for bikes. I have done about
600miles of 6, 5 and the Trans Pennine recently on a tourer and found all the routes to be roughish
but doable, certainly no need for a mountain bike. However, most of the time, with the barriers and
serpentine routes, there is no way that they are transport routes.

Richard Webb

Zog The Undeniable said:

Are most of them like that, and if so, why can't Sustrans be more upfront about the fact that
they're MTB-only

A lot of the off-road NCN routes are not suitable for racers, and only doubtfully suitable for road
bikes. I was very disappointed on the new link between N65 and "Fulford", south of York. It's a
smooth-ish dirt surface, but decidedly uncomfortable at >10mph without suspension - which I don't
have! It's also quite uneven, and as I was riding at night, it was very difficult to spot where the
unevenness was other than by riding straight through it.

And although the route is signposted to Fulford, it abruptly stops at the McArthur Glen shopping
maul a mile away, on the wrong side of the ring road, with no signposts - and the implication is
that the cycle path goes into the shopping centre (adds about half a mile, and means that you have
to go over two busy roundabouts to cross the ring road), rather than the far more sensible idea of
following the road, which bridges over the ring road.

NCN routes are generally not designed to be used by racers. I sometimes wonder if they are designed
to be used by cyclists.

--
Stevie D \\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the \\\\\\\__X__///////
common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs" ___\\\\\\\'/
\'///////_____________________________________________

In article said:

I read the C2C booklet last month and nowhere does it mention that "proper" bikes are unsuitable
for completing the route. Sorry guys, but the NCN isn't going to be anything other than a weekend
leisure activity unless you can get some blacktop out there. Most people like to have mudguards
and road tyres on their commuting bikes!

I live near and used to commute along the East end of the C2C (between Stanley and Sunderland).
There is some tarmac but much more mud and dirt track, uncomfortable on a road bike and dangerous at
road speeds due to the conditions, narrow width and dog-walking pedestrians. And that's in ideal
conditions: unlit and ungritted it's far trickier and more dangerous at night or in Winter.

John

RJ Webb said:

I thought they were largely a leisure thing, a sort of Offas Dyke PAth for bikes. I have done
about 600miles of 6, 5 and the Trans Pennine recently on a tourer and found all the routes to be
roughish but doable, certainly no need for a mountain bike. However, most of the time, with the
barriers and serpentine routes, there is no way that they are transport routes.

Precisely - hence "Sustrans" is a misnomer. I mean, it's a laudable effort, but I can see a lot of
families driving to the start of a route then getting their MTBs off the bike rack for an hour's
ride. Not quite what the charity intended, I think. It happens on the Camel Trail in Cornwall, which
generates a fair bit of motor traffic getting people to the start!

Steve Peake said:

and the MTB riders moan that they are too sanitized!

Sustrans is in a no win situation here, lets just say they are suitable for most bikes.

Solution: continue to have a mix of on- and off-road routes, but mark them clearly as such. And
where a long-distance route that is generally on-road has an off-road bit, signpost an on-road
alternative.

--
Stevie D \\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the \\\\\\\__X__///////
common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs" ___\\\\\\\'/
\'///////_____________________________________________

RJ Webb said:

I thought they were largely a leisure thing, a sort of Offas Dyke PAth for bikes. I have done
about 600miles of 6, 5 and the Trans Pennine recently on a tourer and found all the routes to be
roughish but doable, certainly no need for a mountain bike. However, most of the time, with the
barriers and serpentine routes, there is no way that they are transport routes.

The idea is that they should be *both*.

Sure, most of the C2C, or the N1 through Northumberland, are not suitable for commuting or whatever,
because there's no towns there and precious few people. But plenty of NCN routes do go through
built-up areas, and could realistically be used for transport routes. Some of these are,
nevertheless, unsuitable for racing bikes.

--
Stevie D \\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the \\\\\\\__X__///////
common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs" ___\\\\\\\'/
\'///////_____________________________________________

Stevie D <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Zog The Undeniable wrote: I was very disappointed on the new link between N65 and "Fulford", south
of York. It's a smooth-ish dirt surface, but decidedly uncomfortable at >10mph without suspension
- which I don't have! It's also quite uneven, and as I was riding at night, it was very difficult
to spot where the unevenness was other than by riding straight through it.

When I came past this route late last week (19/9) it was in the process of being re-rolled and,
though I have not rode it since, just glanced at it from the main N65 cycle track, it looks
much improved.

Quoted message said:

And although the route is signposted to Fulford, it abruptly stops at the McArthur Glen shopping
maul a mile away, on the wrong side of the ring road, with no signposts - and the implication is
that the cycle path goes into the shopping centre (adds about half a mile, and means that you have
to go over two busy roundabouts to cross the ring road), rather than the far more sensible idea of
following the road, which bridges over the ring road.

Well it does give access directly into the shopping mall car park via the bus exit.

Roger

Stevie D said:

Solution: continue to have a mix of on- and off-road routes, but mark them clearly as such. And
where a long-distance route that is generally on-road has an off-road bit, signpost an on-road
alternative.

That was my main objection. The section in question is near Calne in Wiltshire, and coming off the
Compton Bassett road, it starts deceptively as tarmac, then degenerates into gravel, then railway
ballast, then sand! Nothing is indicated on the sign except a bicycle and the number 4.

Oddly, the road route (which I took on the way back) is quiet and only a few hundred yards longer!

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Precisely - hence "Sustrans" is a misnomer. I mean, it's a laudable effort, but I can see a lot of
families driving to the start of a route then getting their MTBs off the bike rack for an hour's
ride. Not quite what the charity intended, I think. It happens on the Camel Trail in Cornwall,
which generates a fair bit of motor traffic getting people to the start!

True, but the bits that go through cities and towns get used by commuters. The number of people
using the Bristol and Bath Railway Path (part of Route
4) daily must be a hell of a lot from what I see. And I suspect a fair number of them would drive to
work if it wasn't there.

I weigh 20 stone and was

Quoted message said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

carrying 30-40 pound of kit. CAn't wait 'til I'm leaner and meaner :-)

You seem to have lost a stone already. Well done!!

Wishfull thinking and straying fingers on my part...still 21 stone...love to be 16..or less!!!