Good Shoulder Exercize?

mikem said:

Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however, because that
tends to give me a sore elbow.

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

Upright row, but to avoid rotator cuff problems, don't raise the bar
above your nipples. You can also do front/lateral/rear raises.

"mikem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however, because
that
tends to give me a sore elbow.

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> schreef:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

Quoted message said:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html

Quoted message said:

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

What difference is an "Arnold Press" going to make when front presses are
allready part of the traning regimen?

----
Pete

Pete said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> schreef:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

Quoted message said:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html

Quoted message said:

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

What difference is an "Arnold Press" going to make when front presses are
allready part of the traning regimen?

Well, I could add that it adds a somewhat riskier internal rotation to
the movement, but Steve would go on about how all the DragonDoor boyz
love 'em, so why bother?

mikem said:

Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however, because that
tends to give me a sore elbow.

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

Thanks

What's the rest of your routine? Chances are, you're probably already
doing another exercise that works the deltoids.

Regards,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> schreef:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and
I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

Quoted message said:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html

Quoted message said:

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

What difference is an "Arnold Press" going to make when front presses
are allready part of the traning regimen?

This is a better one exercise.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

----
Pete

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"mikem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however, because that
tends to give me a sore elbow.

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

Why standing?

Bob Garrison' bob6333 said:

Quoted message said:

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

Why standing?

So if you are kneeling you'll be at eye level with Steve.

"Bob Garrison" <bob6333> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"mikem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however, because
that
tends to give me a sore elbow.

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and
I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

Why standing?

Standing and one-arm at a time allow a lot of flexibility in finding a
comfortable groove for your shoulders. I don't mind seated, and I think
it's a great way to avoid any leaning back, but a lot of people hear
"seated" and assume "seated and back supported" which I do not think is
good.

I prefer standing because I find a get a very good midsection workout
from this movement as well. I do them relatively heavy, usually 60 or
70 lbs. (kettlebell in my case) and I weigh 150. It's a very compound
kind of exercise for me - hits lots of things, and the more strict you
try to keep your form in terms of no leaning back or to the side at all
once the weight is cleaned, the more involvement of other muscles you
get. You miss some of that when seated - I tend to do them seated some
of the time but standing most of the time.

You can't do a standing barbell military press without a least a little
leaning back because you'd hit yourself in the nose with the bar (you
can move the bar out but for most people that means using less weight so
leaning back becomes the method of first choice), but the one-armed kind
allows a no-lean approach.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Bob Garrison" <bob6333> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"mikem" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however, because that
tends to give me a sore elbow.

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

Why standing?

I'm not Steve (a fact of which we are BOTH grateful), but, my reasons would
be:

1) standing allows for the normal lordotic curve of the back to absorb the
stress; seated presses badly stress the lower back;

2) standing allows for "cheating" up the last reps, to extend the set, and
work the eccentric portion.

Steve's answer may well be different. If it disagrees with mine, his is,
obviously, wrong 🙂

David

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> schreef:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What difference is an "Arnold Press" going to make when front presses are
allready part of the traning regimen?

Quoted message said:

This is a better one exercise.

Obvious.
But in what way exactly?

----
Pete

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> schreef:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What difference is an "Arnold Press" going to make when front
presses are allready part of the traning regimen?

Quoted message said:

This is a better one exercise.

Obvious.
But in what way exactly?

A better question might be to ask what else one needs to do for one's
shoulders besides this exercise. What's nice about it is that it is a
compound exercise that rewards lat involvement and encourages shoulder
stability. I'm not saying it's the only exercise one can do for one's
shoulders but, though the years I've been training, it's the only one
I've done consistently because I find it works so well for me. Once I
started it, I have never done a cycle in which I've abandoned it in
favor of something else.

Just my opinion - it works well for me, not many people do it, which is
why I try to make a point of mentioning it.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bob Garrison" <bob6333> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"mikem" <[email hidden]> wrote
> Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
> beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however, because
> that
> tends to give me a sore elbow.
>
> Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and
> I'd
> like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
> appreciated!

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

Why standing?

I'm not Steve (a fact of which we are BOTH grateful),

You can say that again! 🙂

Quoted message said:

but, my reasons would be:

1) standing allows for the normal lordotic curve of the back to absorb
the stress; seated presses badly stress the lower back;

This is a good point but I would like to elaborate a bit. One can do
these seated with a normal lordotic curve _if_ one is sufficiently
flexible. I have the requisite flexibility and usually do my seated
presses while sitting on the floor straight legged (either V'ed legs or
in a side split). I would have been better to add to what I originally
posted that the seated press is fine _if_ and only if one has sufficient
hamstring/glute flexibility to sit with a good inward curve in their
lower back.

Quoted message said:

2) standing allows for "cheating" up the last reps, to extend the set,
and work the eccentric portion.

Yes, a bit of leaning back, much like in the Olympic press of old, is
OK. The whole business of cheating can be good in this case, as it will
allow shoulders with problems to find a way to press that strengthens
and doesn't hurt the shoulder. Sometimes that will involve a little
leaning back, something a bit of pushing the bearing hip out to the side
as the weight moves through the sticking point. Not terrible sins for
most people although folks with bad backs have to be careful. I'm one
of those people and I can get away with precious little cheating on
these, which is one of the reasons I like them so much.

Quoted message said:

Steve's answer may well be different. If it disagrees with mine, his
is, obviously, wrong 🙂

Obviously, but I agree with you, although I don't understand why one
couldn't work the eccentric portion when sitting although I confess I've
never tried it. I do work the eccentric regularly when standing doing
these.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

David

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> schreef:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is a better one exercise.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Obvious.
But in what way exactly?

Quoted message said:

A better question might be to ask what else one needs to do for one's
shoulders besides this exercise. What's nice about it is that it is a
compound exercise that rewards lat involvement and encourages shoulder
stability.

Fair enough.
But when do the lats come into play?

Quoted message said:

Just my opinion - it works well for me, not many people do it, which is
why I try to make a point of mentioning it.

Oh, that is okay, i do that all the time.
My advice for working the delts is one pressing movement and a lateral.
The chest and back exercises stress them as well, so those 2 are are all you
need. IMO ;-)

----
Pete

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote >>

Quoted message said:

"Bob Garrison" <bob6333> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote
> "mikem" <[email hidden]> wrote
>> Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
>> beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however, because
>> that
>> tends to give me a sore elbow.
>>
>> Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and I'd
>> like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
>> appreciated!
>
> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html
>
> I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.
>
Why standing?

I'm not Steve (a fact of which we are BOTH grateful),

You can say that again! 🙂

I'm not Steve (a fact of which we are BOTH grateful),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but, my reasons would be:

1) standing allows for the normal lordotic curve of the back to absorb
the stress; seated presses badly stress the lower back;

This is a good point but I would like to elaborate a bit. One can do
these seated with a normal lordotic curve _if_ one is sufficiently
flexible. I have the requisite flexibility and usually do my seated
presses while sitting on the floor straight legged (either V'ed legs or in
a side split). I would have been better to add to what I originally posted
that the seated press is fine _if_ and only if one has sufficient
hamstring/glute flexibility to sit with a good inward curve in their lower
back.

"Most" people are not flexible enough, so "most" people would be better off
standing. You are not "most" people. A good thing. Who wants to be common?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2) standing allows for "cheating" up the last reps, to extend the set,
and work the eccentric portion.

Yes, a bit of leaning back, much like in the Olympic press of old, is OK.
The whole business of cheating can be good in this case, as it will allow
shoulders with problems to find a way to press that strengthens and
doesn't hurt the shoulder. Sometimes that will involve a little leaning
back, something a bit of pushing the bearing hip out to the side as the
weight moves through the sticking point. Not terrible sins for most
people although folks with bad backs have to be careful. I'm one of those
people and I can get away with precious little cheating on these, which is
one of the reasons I like them so much.

Quoted message said:

Steve's answer may well be different. If it disagrees with mine, his is,
obviously, wrong 🙂

Obviously, but I agree with you, although I don't understand why one
couldn't work the eccentric portion when sitting although I confess I've
never tried it. I do work the eccentric regularly when standing doing
these.

I meant eccentric, as in past the point of concentric failure. Obviously, if
you can't get the weights up, you can't lower them. Using the legs to jerk
them up allows eccentric work past concentric failure.

David

Steve Freides said:

"mikem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however, because
that
tends to give me a sore elbow.

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Sometimes this will hinder a problematic shoulder.

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> schreef:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> This is a better one exercise.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Obvious.
But in what way exactly?

Quoted message said:

A better question might be to ask what else one needs to do for one's
shoulders besides this exercise. What's nice about it is that it is
a compound exercise that rewards lat involvement and encourages
shoulder stability.

Fair enough.
But when do the lats come into play?

Flexing the lats is, for other kinds of presses like the old-fashioned
bent and side presses, a necessity. In the straight-up press, it still
helps stabilize the shoulder. The more stable the shoulder, the better
(stronger, safer) the pressing will be. Using the lats is also good
(and for the same, not obvious reasons) in the bench press, although I
will be the first to admit that I don't bench press regularly.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just my opinion - it works well for me, not many people do it, which
is why I try to make a point of mentioning it.

Oh, that is okay, i do that all the time.
My advice for working the delts is one pressing movement and a
lateral.
The chest and back exercises stress them as well, so those 2 are are
all you need. IMO ;-)

----
Pete

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote >>

Quoted message said:

"Bob Garrison" <bob6333> wrote
> "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote
>> "mikem" <[email hidden]> wrote
>>> Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
>>> beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however,
>>> because that
>>> tends to give me a sore elbow.
>>>
>>> Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and
>>> I'd
>>> like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be
>>> graetly
>>> appreciated!
>>
>> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html
>>
>> I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.
>>
> Why standing?

I'm not Steve (a fact of which we are BOTH grateful),

You can say that again! 🙂

I'm not Steve (a fact of which we are BOTH grateful),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but, my reasons would be:

1) standing allows for the normal lordotic curve of the back to
absorb the stress; seated presses badly stress the lower back;

This is a good point but I would like to elaborate a bit. One can do
these seated with a normal lordotic curve _if_ one is sufficiently
flexible. I have the requisite flexibility and usually do my seated
presses while sitting on the floor straight legged (either V'ed legs
or in a side split). I would have been better to add to what I
originally posted that the seated press is fine _if_ and only if one
has sufficient hamstring/glute flexibility to sit with a good inward
curve in their lower back.

"Most" people are not flexible enough, so "most" people would be
better off standing. You are not "most" people. A good thing. Who
wants to be common?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2) standing allows for "cheating" up the last reps, to extend the
set, and work the eccentric portion.

Yes, a bit of leaning back, much like in the Olympic press of old, is
OK. The whole business of cheating can be good in this case, as it
will allow shoulders with problems to find a way to press that
strengthens and doesn't hurt the shoulder. Sometimes that will
involve a little leaning back, something a bit of pushing the bearing
hip out to the side as the weight moves through the sticking point.
Not terrible sins for most people although folks with bad backs have
to be careful. I'm one of those people and I can get away with
precious little cheating on these, which is one of the reasons I like
them so much.

Quoted message said:

Steve's answer may well be different. If it disagrees with mine, his
is, obviously, wrong 🙂

Obviously, but I agree with you, although I don't understand why one
couldn't work the eccentric portion when sitting although I confess
I've never tried it. I do work the eccentric regularly when standing
doing these.

I meant eccentric, as in past the point of concentric failure.
Obviously, if you can't get the weights up, you can't lower them.
Using the legs to jerk them up allows eccentric work past concentric
failure.

Gotcha.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve Freides said:

"mikem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone rec. me a good overall shoulder exercize for a
beginner-intermediate type? NOT any kind of dip, however, because
that
tends to give me a sore elbow.

Right now I only do shoulder press in my (very basic) routine and
I'd
like to add a second shoulder exercize. Any help would be graetly
appreciated!

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html

I recommend these be done standing and one arm at a time instead.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Sometimes this will hinder a problematic shoulder.

My experience, and that of many others, is that shoulders that no longer
work well thanks to lots of bench pressing get better when doing Arnold
type presses. Of course, each problem is different, but what I've seen
first-hand and what I've heard suggests that, more often than not,
overhead presses help, and not hinder, problematics shoulders that
became problematic doing the most common exercise in the gym, the bench
press.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com