Learsport

Mate I would go the specialised. Learsport is a bit dodgy. It's the kind of bike you would pickup at Kmart 🙂

I bought a 2003 Lear 8000 1.5 months ago. My frame is not the Columbus tubing, but is double-butted 7005 tubing.

I don'y know for sure who makes the frames for LearSport, but by visual comparison, I'm pretty convinced it's likely to be whoever building Merida frames.

There is a fact for LearSport at the moment to keep in mind: They don't seem to be a dedicated bicycle company as many others are. That means that they probably don't do any R&D work for their bikes. The implication is that the bike components already available in the market are used to creat their bikes. Now it's up to the consumer to evaluate any contender against their criteria.

As I said in a different post before, I got my Lear 8000 with WH540 wheels for $1550. That's equal to the price of the 105 groupset plus those wheels. Anything else on that bike is, hence, a bonus, including the frame. With my bike mechanical knowledge that's enough to build another bike with those components, this was a sweet deal.

In addition, I have been very pleased with the bike so far, nothing that would be specific to the brand of bike has been telegraphed yet. For a commuting/training bike, I think I'm happy with my choice. It wouldn't matter where you can buy a good product; KMart or elsewhere.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by M2cycler
I've posted it this on equipment, but i'll do it again here for more relevance.

i need advice on buying a new bike.

has anyone extensively ridden either the 2004 learsport 8000 or 8500. they both have columbus zonal tubing, and the 8500 has the addition of a carbon wishbone seatstay. they feature 105 and ultegra respectively and are $1500 and $2200 AU

is the fact that the frames are columbus tubing enough of a reason to consider them decent.

one thing i noticed is that the down tube did not flatten out toward the bottom bracket to provide stiffness, is this an issue.

please check them at www.learsport.com and give me some advice, the other bikes on my shortlist are the 2004 specialized sport and 2003 elite.

thanks

nice come-back amirm, subtle and concise 🙂

Learsport frames were **** last time I looked. Perhaps that has changed. I shall take another look though I think I would feel alot safer in the forest if I was on a specialised

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by amirm
I bought a 2003 Lear 8000 1.5 months ago. My frame is not the Columbus tubing, but is double-butted 7005 tubing.

I don'y know for sure who makes the frames for LearSport, but by visual comparison, I'm pretty convinced it's likely to be whoever building Merida frames.

There is a fact for LearSport at the moment to keep in mind: They don't seem to be a dedicated bicycle company as many others are. That means that they probably don't do any R&D work for their bikes. The implication is that the bike components already available in the market are used to creat their bikes. Now it's up to the consumer to evaluate any contender against their criteria.

As I said in a different post before, I got my Lear 8000 with WH540 wheels for $1550. That's equal to the price of the 105 groupset plus those wheels. Anything else on that bike is, hence, a bonus, including the frame. With my bike mechanical knowledge that's enough to build another bike with those components, this was a sweet deal.

In addition, I have been very pleased with the bike so far, nothing that would be specific to the brand of bike has been telegraphed yet. For a commuting/training bike, I think I'm happy with my choice. It wouldn't matter where you can buy a good product; KMart or elsewhere.

Thanks for the advice people. Amirm, how did you manage $1550 for the 8000 plus the wh540, it is advertised at $1699.

its stuart, what made the frames SH1T in ur opinion. was it the heaviness or just the fact it was made of noname 7005

now that the frames are triple butted columbus i am feeling that they would be ok

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by M2cycler
Thanks for the advice people. Amirm, how did you manage $1550 for the 8000 plus the wh540, it is advertised at $1699.

its stuart, what made the frames SH1T in ur opinion. was it the heaviness or just the fact it was made of noname 7005

now that the frames are triple butted columbus i am feeling that they would be ok

It's been a while since Ive had a look at Learsport and i must admit they look to have lifted their game. A friend of mine had one and flogged out the bottom-bracket in no time. Having said that i'd love to have one for the weekend and see how it handles 4 or 5 hours of hard riding.

I didn't mean to get pushy with my opinion. I agree with you about better quality and feel that we get we reputable bikes. But mate, they ask for their premium price tags. LearSport frames, IMHO, don't get any close to, say, a Cannondale, but the equivalent Cannondale with pure 105 would cost at least three times more. I guess everyone may come to a different balanced decision in money versus practicality and quality plot.

So you may still be disappointed in LearSport frames, because I don't know how high your standard would be. One thing is for sure, and that's there are no free lunches. I would say, a novice rider, may realise he/she needs to go back a few times before the bike is reasonably tuned. In Canberra, for instance, the location of LearSport shop is not very handy. I have had to spent some time tuning my own bike. That's why I talk about the hardware prices (since I don't worry about the labour or service or related trips to the bike shop).

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by its_stuart
nice come-back amirm, subtle and concise 🙂

Learsport frames were **** last time I looked. Perhaps that has changed. I shall take another look though I think I would feel alot safer in the forest if I was on a specialised

I just asked for a better price nicely, and they agreed because I was nice! 🙂

But seriously, it is a little bit of story. First I purchased a Lear 7700 when they had their end of the season sale (that did not cover Lear 8000 and above). Then, I decided to get the Lear 8000, and that was when the new 2004 stock were introduced. So that was the best time to haggle, and I asked for a discount on the older stock. The changeover price mattered to me at the time. Besides, they gave me a $100 credit, because I did not take the seat post and the saddle.

Frankly, I was fascinated with the price of the grouppo, and did not care really for the Columbus tubing or the fact that the new frames were in "compact" style. I guess a $250 discount overweighed these two features.

I have a more luxurious road bike that I built 2 years ago. That bike hangs from my garage wall, and gets a spin every now and then when I go for show rides with friends. It satisfies my darker side every time I look at it, or play with it. Having that, the second bike would be more down to Earth 😉

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by M2cycler
Thanks for the advice people. Amirm, how did you manage $1550 for the 8000 plus the wh540, it is advertised at $1699.

its stuart, what made the frames SH1T in ur opinion. was it the heaviness or just the fact it was made of noname 7005

now that the frames are triple butted columbus i am feeling that they would be ok

thanks for the advice people,
I just purchased the lear 8000 today, red/black 52.5. my first sti bike. hooray.

complaints i have are the slightly malformed ritchey stem (the handlebar isnt horizontal when bike is upright, also when stem is alligned with wheel, handlebar is not perpendicular), and the dodgy welds. i hope i can exchange the stem but i doubt i can do much about the welds. also one of the stickers on the fork had a ridge in it. my attempts to rectify resulted in more crappiness.

took it on a about a 40km ride and thought it was pretty good, no speedo yet as i have no more funds (anyone want to donate an unused cycle comp to a no good cause).

we'll see how it goes with the bunch on saturday.

compared to my old bike (perigee) it has quicker steering and is a bit lighter. also i don't feel as natural on it, hopefully that will come over time. more updates coming, if u can stand them.

M2cycler said:

thanks for the advice people, I just purchased the lear 8000 today, red/black 52.5. my first sti
bike. hooray.

complaints i have are the slightly malformed ritchey stem (the handlebar isnt horizontal when bike
is upright, also when stem is alligned with wheel, handlebar is not perpendicular), and the dodgy
welds. i hope i can exchange the stem but i doubt i can do much about the welds. also one of the
stickers on the fork had a ridge in it. my attempts to rectify resulted in more crappiness.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

over time. more updates coming, if u can stand them.

Don't they have a deal whereby you can send it back within 30 days if you're not happy with it?

&roo

P.S. Please do keep us posted on how it goes.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Andrew Swan

BM2cycler said:

thanks for the advice people, I just purchased the lear 8000 today, red/black 52.5. my first sti
bike. hooray.

complaints i have are the slightly malformed ritchey stem (the handlebar isnt horizontal when bike
is upright, also when stem is alligned with wheel, handlebar is not perpendicular), and the dodgy
welds. i hope i can exchange the stem but i doubt i can do much about the welds. also one of the
stickers on the fork had a ridge in it. my attempts to rectify resulted in more crappiness.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

over time. more updates coming, if u can stand them.

Don't they have a deal whereby you can send it back within 30 days if you're not happy with it?

&roo

P.S. Please do keep us posted on how it goes. [/B]

yeah they do have a 30 day money back or exchange warranty. i'll see what they say. i don't really want them to have to replace the whole bike though which is what they would have to do if i want 100 percent looking welds. i'm sure the welds are plenty strong, just the aesthetics are a little off. the stem should be no problem to swap.

took it for about 50km to bobbin head. performed like a bike should i guess. honestly i can't tell ride difference between it and old chromo bike i.e. it bounces about the same amount. getting used to the sti's, love shifting while standing.

"M2cycler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

complaints i have are the slightly malformed ritchey stem (the

handlebar

I'd definately get this swapped. Who knows how it could have been bent/damaaged in manufacter
or shipping?

Quoted message said:

wheel, handlebar is not perpendicular), and the dodgy welds. i hope i can exchange the stem but i
doubt i can do much about the welds. also

What do you mean dodgy welds? Where and what's wrong with them?

Quoted message said:

one of the stickers on the fork had a ridge in it. my attempts to rectify resulted in more
crappiness.

hehe been there done that (over and over again - i never learn). When in doubt, rip it out (or off).
I've removed stickers and badges from various bikes (and my car!) and they often make the vehicle
look nicer, either because the stickers looked [censored] anyway, or just the way it gives cleaner lines
to the bike/car. You'll have a slightly more unique bike too. Don't be scared :-)

Quoted message said:

took it on a about a 40km ride and thought it was pretty good, no speedo yet as i have no more
funds (anyone want to donate an unused cycle comp to a no good cause).

Where are you?

Quoted message said:

over time. more updates coming, if u can stand them.

We can stand them.

hippy

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by M2cycler
yeah they do have a 30 day money back or exchange warranty. i'll see what they say. i don't really want them to have to replace the whole bike though which is what they would have to do if i want 100 percent looking welds. i'm sure the welds are plenty strong, just the aesthetics are a little off. the stem should be no problem to swap.

took it for about 50km to bobbin head. performed like a bike should i guess. honestly i can't tell ride difference between it and old chromo bike i.e. it bounces about the same amount. getting used to the sti's, love shifting while standing.

That is one Bike am considering so definately post more updates.

I think the problem with the welds is that they are a bit obvious is all. The bikes look a little rougher than your average cannondale, orbea or specialized but they seem to represent good value.

Really I don't see how they could be that bad, they are made of and have all the good stuff so they can't be that bad.

I would assume all they need is a little tweaking as they don't really put much effort into fitting the bike to you.

My plan is to get one, ride the bum of it and it's it's [censored] after a couple of weeks return it and get my money back according to their guarantee.

Not sure whether to go lear 8000 or 8500...105 or ultegra?

"thebow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think the problem with the welds is that they are a bit obvious is all. The bikes look a little
rougher than your average cannondale,

orbea

Quoted message said:

or specialized but they seem to represent good value.

Obvious welds are not generally a problem. I've seen some great looking machines with super chunky
looking welds. I think strength has more to do with the actual bonding that has occurred - looks
really don't mean much here. Someone with more metal knowledge will correct me I'm sure. Invisible
welds may just indicate dodgy welding that has been filed clean.

Quoted message said:

Not sure whether to go lear 8000 or 8500...105 or ultegra?

What's the price difference? Website?

All I can say is that I like Ultegra, but I've never ridden 105 so have no grounds for comparison.
Hell, I still like downtube shifters and remove the gears from a perfectly good 7speed! :-)

hippy

thebow said:

...My plan is to get one, ride the bum of it and it's it's [censored] after a couple of weeks return it
and get my money back according to their guarantee...

Just be careful of the last lines in the guarantee, "...we will refund your money or replace the
products, *except* in the following cases:... *3. The products are damaged or worn.*"

Al

I bought a Lear 7000 a couple of months ago and love it to bits. Yes, the welds are a bit large, but
the bike overall is a joy to ride. Very smooth.

Incidentally, I bought mine direct from the factory *via eBay*. Got it cheaper than retail, too.

Sig.

thebow said:

M2cycler said:

yeah they do have a 30 day money back or exchange warranty. i'll see what they say. i don't
really want them to have to replace the whole bike though which is what they would have to do
if i want 100 percent looking welds. i'm sure the welds are plenty strong, just the aesthetics
are a little off. the stem should be no problem to swap. took it for about 50km to bobbin head.
performed like a bike should i guess. honestly i can't tell ride difference between it and old
chromo bike i.e. it bounces about the same amount. getting used to the sti's, love shifting
while standing.

That is one Bike am considering so definately post more updates.

I think the problem with the welds is that they are a bit obvious is all. The bikes look a little
rougher than your average cannondale, orbea or specialized but they seem to represent good value.

Really I don't see how they could be that bad, they are made of and have all the good stuff so they
can't be that bad.

I would assume all they need is a little tweaking as they don't really put much effort into fitting
the bike to you.

My plan is to get one, ride the bum of it and it's it's [censored] after a couple of weeks return it and
get my money back according to their guarantee.

Not sure whether to go lear 8000 or 8500...105 or ultegra?

--

Quoted message said:

--------------------------<

Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

"thebow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Not sure whether to go lear 8000 or 8500...105 or ultegra?

What's the price difference? Website?

www.learsport.com.au duh! :-P

The 8500 has carbon post and stem and a different frame with carbon seatstays. It also has the
Shimano wheels as opposed to the more traditional Alex rims and of course full Ultegra versus 105.
$1500 versus $2200

I don't know anything about carbon stays, but a big, paranoid guy like me worries a bit about carbon
stems and less-so carbon seatposts. :-)

Personally I like the look of the Shimano wheels but I don't like the low spoke count (big guy
paranoia again) and I don't like the (apparently) $10 spoke replacement cost. Proprietary gear sucks
for replacement too unless they are really well supported, but I guess Shimano is. I don't suppose
you can test ride the 105 bike versus the Ultegra? That would be the deciding point for me, how the
carbon stays handled and how much better Ultegra felt, if at all.

According to cecilwalker's website the difference in price between 105 and Ultegra is less than
$200, so I'd be hesitant to pay $700 for the "extras" you are getting. Seems you are paying for less
weight but also, perhaps less durability?

hippy

Be very careful if you decide to buy via their web site. They claim to be a Verisign scured site.
Nothing could be further from the truth. If you use the online order page all your details will be
sent plain text. I emailed them a couple of months ago about this and have had no response and
checking the web site tonight it seems they still have fixed it. DO NOT believe the blurb about the
order form being 100% secure. Very poor practice as far as I'm concerned. I just hope this
sloppiness isn't reflected in their products.

Elguapo said:

Be very careful if you decide to buy via their web site. They claim to be a Verisign scured site.
Nothing could be further from the truth. If you use the online order page all your details will be
sent plain text. I emailed them a couple of months ago about this and have had no response and
checking the web site tonight it seems they still have fixed it. DO NOT believe the blurb about
the order form being 100% secure. Very poor practice as far as I'm concerned. I just hope this
sloppiness isn't reflected in their products.

Good point, If you click to see the details you find

Name WWW.LEARSPORT.COM Status Expired Validity Period 04-AUG-00 - 18-AUG-01

Yet they still claim 100% security. I wonder what VeriSign think about the misuse of the
VeriSign seal!

Al.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Hippy
> "thebow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not sure whether to go lear 8000 or 8500...105 or ultegra?

What's the price difference? Website?

www.learsport.com.au duh! :-P

The 8500 has carbon post and stem and a different frame with carbon seatstays. It also has the
Shimano wheels as opposed to the more traditional Alex rims and of course full Ultegra versus 105.
$1500 versus $2200

I don't know anything about carbon stays, but a big, paranoid guy like me worries a bit about carbon
stems and less-so carbon seatposts. :-)

Personally I like the look of the Shimano wheels but I don't like the low spoke count (big guy
paranoia again) and I don't like the (apparently) $10 spoke replacement cost. Proprietary gear sucks
for replacement too unless they are really well supported, but I guess Shimano is. I don't suppose
you can test ride the 105 bike versus the Ultegra? That would be the deciding point for me, how the
carbon stays handled and how much better Ultegra felt, if at all.

According to cecilwalker's website the difference in price between 105 and Ultegra is less than
$200, so I'd be hesitant to pay $700 for the "extras" you are getting. Seems you are paying for less
weight but also, perhaps less durability?

hippy

Price difference is a bit less..the 105 comes with standard 32 spoke wheels. It is a $200 upgrade to 540 so we're looking at $500 diff at that stage.

from what I have been reading service/durability of the ultegra stuff is something like 6000ml/105 -> 10000 - > ultegra so that is a factor as well.

So the diff is a bit more carbon, more durability from the groupset and add in a little for [censored] factor but not much more as it's only a learsport :-)

I work about 15 mins from the warehouse and test ride bikes are available so I'll have a crack at them sometime next week and make my mind up then.

If the ultegra bike feels $700 better then I'll grab it, otherwise go the 105 bike.

Though my LBS has an ORBEA with campy mirage for $1800 that I may be able to screw them down a bit for.

He was telling me that groupo is the equivalent of 105 but my internet research does not bear that out..1 strike against LBS for fibbing even if it may be a little one...