Tss

vio765 said:

i finally got cyclingpeaks. i have a year and a half worth of polar data and realized my ave weekly TSS is between 600-750. the avg hours per week is around 11-13. i am a cat 5 racer. 27 y.o. 1.5 years of formal structured training and racing with a few years of recreational mountain biking before the road biking. how does my TSS score compare with y'all?

See this thread for results of a poll on TSS cyclingforums.comt298799.htmlOpen ↗

The thing to remember here is how you've accumulated your TSS - can get high numbers via long low intensity rides or very high intensity efforts since TSS = (IF^2)*(Time)*100 so the number itself isn't as important as how it was accumulated. I think the benchmark range for TSS is 100 - 150 per day (but don't quote me on this).

Dini77 said:

The thing to remember here is how you've accumulated your TSS - can get high numbers via long low intensity rides or very high intensity efforts since TSS = (IF^2)*(Time)*100 so the number itself isn't as important as how it was accumulated. I think the benchmark range for TSS is 100 - 150 per day (but don't quote me on this).

Since tss is a measure of stress, the number itself *is* what you look at to quantify training stress. Looking at the composition just gives you clues as to what the benefits are.

whoawhoa said:

Since tss is a measure of stress, the number itself *is* what you look at to quantify training stress. Looking at the composition just gives you clues as to what the benefits are.

you're right, but what i was trying to get at was that comparing TSS aganist others and asking 'how do i stack up' is not neccesarily the answer. It's good to get a feel if you're way under or over, but don't know how you could make any further conclusions from that (at leasty i can't) since it can be accumulated in a number of different ways and will change depending on where you are in your season.

Actually, maybe i should've asked the OP questions about how his/her weekly split across L1 - L7, where in the training/racing season he/she is, etc. I'll let you guys on the other side of the world carry this on - it's getting late in Oz and i need some sleep.

the accumulation of my TSS points isabout 80% endurance efforts and 20% at or just below LT. i started my base training in december, and it has progressed into longer, and longer rides with some fastpedal, muscletension, tempo, and steadystate intervals here and there, but mostly at endurnce efforts. anyway, i believe that the accumulation (rather, HOW those points were racked up are key). however, considering the above information, what do you guys think?

vio765 said:

the accumulation of my TSS points isabout 80% endurance efforts and 20% at or just below LT. i started my base training in december, and it has progressed into longer, and longer rides with some fastpedal, muscletension, tempo, and steadystate intervals here and there, but mostly at endurnce efforts. anyway, i believe that the accumulation (rather, HOW those points were racked up are key). however, considering the above information, what do you guys think?

Well, first of all, I think you're being fairly conservative with intensity-this could be good or bad. If you feel you can respond to more load, you could easily rack up a good chunk more tss points on the training volume you're riding now. Also, my personal opinion is that fastpedal and muscle tension (these are big-gear intervals, correct?) aren't necessary. I would remove them and do more Ft (steadystate?) work, more tempo work, and add some v02max and possibly l6 stuff depending on your goals.

vio765 said:

the accumulation of my TSS points isabout 80% endurance efforts and 20% at or just below LT. i started my base training in december, and it has progressed into longer, and longer rides with some fastpedal, muscletension, tempo, and steadystate intervals here and there, but mostly at endurnce efforts. anyway, i believe that the accumulation (rather, HOW those points were racked up are key). however, considering the above information, what do you guys think?

I can't comment on TSS number more than saying that it seems to be in the range of most people's from that other poll (maybe can up the miles if all you're doing is low intensity). It's how you've racked up your TSS that might hold better answers for you. Are you using Andy C's power level shema?

Given what you've said, most of your training is at L2-L3. This is fine if your goals are general fitness, but if you harbor any grander plans, you may want to look at increasing training time in L4-L7. 6 months seems like a very long base phase to me and in saying that, just because you're in base phase, doesn't mean you neglect higher intensity efforts.

Whilst you've thrown in some other efforts, the question becomes have you maintained that effort for the right time duration to induce the specific adaptation - i can't answer that, but i'd say probably not since if you did, you'd probably get higher weekly TSS numbers than you have. Like i said previously, you can spend 1.75hrs riding upper endurance and get 100 TSS pts or incorporate 45min at mid-upper L4 (not necessarily all in 1 hit) into a 1.25hr ride and get roughly the same TSS, but IMO much more benefit and a far better utilisation of training time (not to mention 0.5hrs spare time😉 )

i have a feeling y'all are right in terms of adding more intensity sooner in my base training. this year, i had four months of base training. as a helper you for, i follow Friel's Bible structure at 450-500 hours (you will notice the chart on ps. 112). he has 3 base periods. i added a 4th base period which mimics the 3rd, but just longer.

now, since i have been pouring over all my data through my "cyclingpeaks eyes", i found that my L2 and L3 power to be noticably stronger compared to last season. however, my L4 power has only moved 5 watts above last season's avg. i would like to have seen a 5-10 watt increase in my avg L4 power by the time i started build phases. but, because of the huge volume of L2 and L3 hours, i should have a strong springboard into developing more L4 power. ideas? suggestions? comments?

vio765 said:

i follow Friel's Bible structure at 450-500 hours (you will notice the chart on ps. 112). he has 3 base periods. i added a 4th base period which mimics the 3rd, but just longer ... i found that my L2 and L3 power to be noticably stronger compared to last season. however, my L4 power has only moved 5 watts above last season's avg. comments?

Vio: A few reactions to your posting. While the training schedule drives the TSS, I think they should be viewed as measuring different things. Your "training schedule" is the balance of L1-L5/6 workouts, and as a "coachee" rather than a coach, I wouldn't suggest to you the best composition of the different workouts. (There was a thread a while back which implied that one should be putting in 2-3 hrs/week at L4 or above. While that seems about right at some points in the training cycle, from my own experience, as you increase the VO2 work, i.e. L5/6, you compensate by cutting back on L4, so it depends in part where in the racing season you are.) But the main value of the TSS is for you to find your own limit, i.e. the TSS score above which you seem to be overtraining, and use the TSS score to stay under that point. Looking at my own training diary, at this point of the season I seem to log 800-900 points in the 3 work weeks of my 4 week cycle, and drop back to 550-600 points in the recovery week. But there are other riders who are happy putting in 1000+ TSS/week, and I'm sure others who are uncomfortable going over 800, so the point I'm trying to make is that I think the best use of TSS is to avoid overtraining yourself, not to compare to others.
What I don't understand is your reference to L2 and L3 power "increasing." The base for all of the power ranges is your FTP, again, roughly the power you can maintain for one hour (although there are various ways to determine FTP which don't require a 1 hr TT). What you hope to see increasing from training is your FTP. L2 and L3 ranges are simply percentages of FTP, so if your FTP increases, you will have higher L2 and L3 ranges, but you can't observe an increase in L2 power, you can only remeasure FTP.

vio765 said:

i found that my L2 and L3 power to be noticably stronger compared to last season. however, my L4 power has only moved 5 watts above last season's avg. i would like to have seen a 5-10 watt increase in my avg L4 power by the time i started build phases. but, because of the huge volume of L2 and L3 hours, i should have a strong springboard into developing more L4 power. ideas? suggestions? comments?

First, I agree with palewin that TSS measures only the volume of total training stress, not the quality of the training. You seem to be saying that you think a lot of work at L1-L3 should result in an increase in sustainable power (FT). I don't think that's true for me and I think the message you are getting from most of the replies is that if you want to increase your sustainable power you have to spend more time at L4+. I am one of those palewin referred to above. If I don't get 3+ hours/week at L4+, I expect no increase in power. When I'm really serious about my training schedule, I log 5-6 hours/week at L4+.

palewin said:

What I don't understand is your reference to L2 and L3 power "increasing." The base for all of the power ranges is your FTP, again, roughly the power you can maintain for one hour (although there are various ways to determine FTP which don't require a 1 hr TT). What you hope to see increasing from training is your FTP. L2 and L3 ranges are simply percentages of FTP, so if your FTP increases, you will have higher L2 and L3 ranges, but you can't observe an increase in L2 power, you can only remeasure FTP.

It is quite possible to see an increase in power in one area other than FTP, without a correlated change in power at FTP. In lab tests I've seen a ~20% improvement in what you'd call L2 and L3 ( I get them differentiated by blood lactate levels and HR), but only a ~8% improvement in FTP. Other times the improvements are virtually identical in those three zones or there is a larger improvement in FTP than in those lower zones.

Put another way, your FTP might remain at 300 watts while your ability to ride at 250 watts has improved-maybe measured by tolerable volume or HR's. It depends on how close you are to your potential within those zones and how much emphasis you give each zone in training.