Discovery in disarray.... ?

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]Calm down I wasn't having a go at the [/font][font=Verdana]US[/font][font=Verdana] rider’s v European riders I was just saying the race is not a big race and that’s fine... we shouldn't use the race as a measurement for future form... If little TommyD going nuts in the mountains at TdG it doesn't mean that Il Falco will give up his day job and become a ten pin bowler.... a little perspective is important on what the TdG is.... that’s all I was saying... and I didn't mention that bloke who had cancer once and has track marks on his feet...
[/font]

Shouldnt you be resting, saving some energy, and not posting so much since you are allegedly running some bogus marathon soon in a country that knows and cares nothing about the great sport of running and on top of that everyone knows that British running events are the dirtiest and most doped sport on a level only with "professional wrestling", bodybuilding, or American college lacrosse?!?! Geez.

limerickman said:

I never said that the TDG was a DC race or a DC benefit gig, as it happens.

I said that TDG was neither the biggest race nor the smallest race on the calendar.
I did say that I welcome the notion of TOC and TDG : it gives American fans and the American public exposure to our sport and that is a good thing, i think.

I have no difficulty with the USA staging races of any kind - if it promotes the sport and if it promotes a potential LeMond and Hampsten to come here to Europe and race, all the better I say.

I know. It wasn't you. I was just arguing with WTB about his portayal of the TDG in that way. He called it self masturbatory and a place for DC games. You have been totally fair and level in your comments on the US stage races.

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]
We should not forget that the TdG (why de ? is this in [/font][font=Verdana]France[/font][font=Verdana] ?) is not a ProTour event and only has a UCI status of 1.1...... [/font][font=Verdana]
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that's actually not correct TdG gained 2.HC (HC for Hors Category) this year... and it couldn't be 1. anything since it's a stage race and the 1 would indicate that it's a 1 day race... 2 indicates a stage race.

[font=Verdana]The TdR has further exemplified Discovery’s problems. They the entire team has come down with Gastro problems…. The rumors circulating through the peleton is high hemocrit readings and the team was asked to finish well down on the stage to avoid any controversy…. The other rumor is that the food was deliberately spiked by Discovery to allow Tom Danielson to lead the Giro with Il Falco out of the way… I just hope Il Falco has enough friends on the team during the Giro to ensure his food is clean and he gets the support a defending champion deserves.[/font]

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]The TdR has further exemplified Discovery’s problems. They the entire team has come down with Gastro problems…. The rumors circulating through the peleton is high hemocrit readings and the team was asked to finish well down on the stage to avoid any controversy…. The other rumor is that the food was deliberately spiked by Discovery to allow Tom Danielson to lead the Giro with Il Falco out of the way… I just hope Il Falco has enough friends on the team during the Giro to ensure his food is clean and he gets the support a defending champion deserves.[/font]

I completely agree that DC's showing in Romandie is beyond pathetic and evidence of something stinky. I rewatched Stage 2 last night. Salvodelli was begging for help to chase Horner like a homeless addict begging for change. It was truly truly sad. But, your arguments here are a bit conspiratorial at best. I am really intrigued if you can cite some sources. Juicy stuff. But if you just made all this up then it's pretty silly. TAnking a stage because of high hematocrit warnings? Poisoned the team's food so they can start Danielson over Salvodelli as leader????? You better come up with something to support that.

barnstorm said:

I completely agree that DC's showing in Romandie is beyond pathetic and evidence of something stinky. I rewatched Stage 2 last night. Salvodelli was begging for help to chase Horner like a homeless addict begging for change.

[font=Verdana]I like that ! Its a WBT-styled line...... Salvodelli had to ask for help in last year's Giro during DiLuca's and Simonei's attack... he got it in Van Huffell and Lotto... looks this time the favors have run out for Discovery…. No one wants to help them…..

You raise an interesting point... Discovery have shafted a lot of teams over the years and they can't call on the favors like they used to... they have nothing more to offer teams anymore...... money doesn’t talk anymore and either do Lance’s threats……this will work against them in the Giro and the Tour and Riis has a lot of friends in the peleton… they will help Basso when he needs it…[/font][font=Verdana][/font]

barnstorm said:

TAnking a stage because of high hematocrit warnings?

Apparently many of the times that riders have "bad days" and blame on "bad stomachs" are because they are deliberately tanking due to high readings of whatever substances. Probably not haematocrit though as that is tested before the stage.

There are even rumours about track sprinters deliberately pulling their feet out of their pedals to get an honourable loss rather than win then get done for doping.

patch70 said:

Apparently many of the times that riders have "bad days" and blame on "bad stomachs" are because they are deliberately tanking due to high readings of whatever substances. Probably not haematocrit though as that is tested before the stage.

There are even rumours about track sprinters deliberately pulling their feet out of their pedals to get an honourable loss rather than win then get done for doping.

OK, but are there actual rumours within the peloton that this was the case today? and, Are you suggesting that a team will test hematocrits, find them high, and tell the team to tank or that they actually had high official tests and the race organizers gave them the results... so they decided to tank to avoid the race organizers having to sanction them? The point is not clear.

I would have trouble buying that's what happened here without some sources

barnstorm said:

OK, but are there actual rumours within the peloton that this was the case today? and, Are you suggesting that a team will test hematocrits, find them high, and tell the team to tank or that they actually had high official tests and the race organizers gave them the results... so they decided to tank to avoid the race organizers having to sanction them? The point is not clear.

I would have trouble buying that's what happened here without some sources

Can't answer the first question.
But if the team finds high hct, they'll run in lots of IV fluids or else take blood out. They can put the blood back in after the hct test as the hct test takes place quite a bit of time before the start of the race. Hence, a high hct is unlikely. But if the teams testing machines show that the levels of Epo or steroids or whatever else is too high...

barnstorm said:

I rewatched Stage 2 last night. Salvodelli was begging for help to chase Horner like a homeless addict begging for change.

Didn't the same riders shaft Valverde too ?

lw

lwedge said:

Didn't the same riders shaft Valverde too ?

lw

I don't recall Valverde looking like he needed a desperate chase. He wasn't in yellow and I think he had a teammate there. He seemed to be hanging in the bunch waiting to see what happned. Then he won the sprint.

barnstorm said:

I don't recall Valverde looking like he needed a desperate chase. He wasn't in yellow and I think he had a teammate there. He seemed to be hanging in the bunch waiting to see what happned. Then he won the sprint.

Rumors from the peleton have it that, after Paolo's attack Alex tried to attack with 10k to go and got the BIOYA! as well. 😉

lw

Sorry, got to go.... Have a good weekend everyone.

Here is the rumor from the peleton, the Daily Peleton that is.

'Il Falco Salvodelli led the chase on the descent as the 13 turned into a long thin thread on the descent with 13 kms to go. His attack split the group in two as a blown Beuchat and Loosli were caught.

At 10 kms to go it was first an attack by Paolo Salvodelli, but none would join him in spite of his attempts to convince. An attack by Valverde, proved the same only causing a combination of counter attacks by the Davitamon/Lotto duo of Cadel Evans and Chris Horner tiring the others.'

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]The TdR has further exemplified Discovery’s problems. They the entire team has come down with Gastro problems…. The rumors circulating through the peleton is high hemocrit readings and the team was asked to finish well down on the stage to avoid any controversy…. The other rumor is that the food was deliberately spiked by Discovery to allow Tom Danielson to lead the Giro with Il Falco out of the way… I just hope Il Falco has enough friends on the team during the Giro to ensure his food is clean and he gets the support a defending champion deserves.[/font]

You have no sources from the peloton so shut up about what the rumours are.
Every year some team gets sick in some race or another...recall Basso last Giro.
I would point out that it never has happened in a big race in Amercia because the hotels and food service here actually are sanitary. You can read all the riders' comments about how well run the races here are, how great the food and hospitality and accomodations compared with Europe. I recall my first visit to Paris becoming quite ill with food poisoning, when I asked feloow travellers they said yes it happens all to frequently due to the different standards of cleanliness continetal europe operatred under--in contrast to England and Scotland where we travelled extensively with nary a problem in any way.

If you read riders' diaries from the big tours, the one common theme regardless of nationality is the lousy substandard food, the crappysmall poorly airconditioned hotels, and the risk of food poisoning or spoiled eggs, salmonella salad etc etc, Its really a disgrace.

This never happens to soccer teams in the world cup, or needless to say the Ny Yankees or Chicago Bulls. European cycling lives in a different era or century or something. A players union that was strong would do a lot to eliminate this very unnecessary threat to riders' health.

hombredesubaru said:

A players union that was strong would do a lot to eliminate this very unnecessary threat to riders' health.

Errr, you think they want to get rid of the old trusty excuse because of a very small risk? Do you really think that most of those riders really do have gastro? The reason the European soccer players don't have this same problem is that they are almost never tested for PED's.

And hate to damage your parochialism, but have you looked up the rates of food borne illnesses in the US recently? Notice the trend over recent years? Look up campylobacter or cryptosporidium for a start.

Hombre, am I not correct in thinking that Disco are the very best prepped team in the peloton? Who train the hardest, have the best support and DSes and who have their own chefs to prepare their food? No excuses there then...

Also, your anecdotal evidence dates from when? You clearly have never stayed in the kinds of accommodation that TdF riders stay in - the least of which would be a Campanile ranging to exclusive chateau hotels - and who do you think stays in the better class of accommodation? Why, the richest teams - amongst whom comfortable rank Disco....

But I forget how xenophobic you are...

hombredesubaru said:

You have no sources from the peloton so shut up about what the rumours are.
Every year some team gets sick in some race or another...recall Basso last Giro.
I would point out that it never has happened in a big race in Amercia because the hotels and food service here actually are sanitary. You can read all the riders' comments about how well run the races here are, how great the food and hospitality and accomodations compared with Europe. I recall my first visit to Paris becoming quite ill with food poisoning, when I asked feloow travellers they said yes it happens all to frequently due to the different standards of cleanliness continetal europe operatred under--in contrast to England and Scotland where we travelled extensively with nary a problem in any way.

If you read riders' diaries from the big tours, the one common theme regardless of nationality is the lousy substandard food, the crappysmall poorly airconditioned hotels, and the risk of food poisoning or spoiled eggs, salmonella salad etc etc, Its really a disgrace.

This never happens to soccer teams in the world cup, or needless to say the Ny Yankees or Chicago Bulls. European cycling lives in a different era or century or something. A players union that was strong would do a lot to eliminate this very unnecessary threat to riders' health.

Basso got sick at the Giro in 2005 : the entire CSC didn't get sick at the Giro
2005.
So your attempt to create an analogy with DC at Romandie is pointless.

Regarding cycling teams and food. These teams stay in graded accomodation.
You've never been to Switzerland - I have and I can tell you that hospitality standards (hotels/restaurants etc) are probably the highest in the world.
Cuisine and culinery training worldwide is centred in ------you've guessed ---
Switzerland. So to try to suggest that the standards there fall some way behind the USA is rubbish, in this instance.

Credit though has to be given re the ToC and TdG : I am aware that the riders and teams have expressed very positive comments about both events.
So credit is due there.

As regards your getting sick in Paris - I cannot recall anyone who I have ever met who got food poisoning in Paris. Not one person
As ever you're the exception.
(although I have grave doubts about your claim about being in Paris - such is your tendency to exxagerate).

Food posioning can happen anywhere and in anyone's home.. I did it to myself just over a week ago...... And I know better. The food issue during stage races is usually handled by someone ojn the team with cooperation from the inn. When the entire team is not performing and your top rider is getting off the bike numerous times it is a sign of food posioning. To try and imply that it was dope gone bad shows a unhealthy contempt for the sport.
The sport has a public perception problem with dope without individuals adding total fabrications to the viewpoints of the public.

limerickman said:

Basso got sick at the Giro in 2005 : the entire CSC didn't get sick at the Giro
2005.
So your attempt to create an analogy with DC at Romandie is pointless.

Regarding cycling teams and food. These teams stay in graded accomodation.
You've never been to Switzerland - I have and I can tell you that hospitality standards (hotels/restaurants etc) are probably the highest in the world.
Cuisine and culinery training worldwide is centred in ------you've guessed ---
Switzerland. So to try to suggest that the standards there fall some way behind the USA is rubbish, in this instance.

Credit though has to be given re the ToC and TdG : I am aware that the riders and teams have expressed very positive comments about both events.
So credit is due there.

As regards your getting sick in Paris - I cannot recall anyone who I have ever met who got food poisoning in Paris. Not one person
As ever you're the exception.
(although I have grave doubts about your claim about being in Paris - such is your tendency to exxagerate).

You are such a grandiloquent horse's rear end. Laugh. I have been in Paris dozens of times.

Many folks have gotten sick there, anyway...
Yes Switzerland is a great place but lets keep the focus on the simple issue that riders and teams get sick a lot. I can only speculate as to the cuase but it seems odd that it doesnt happen in soccer.

I suppose that riders racing over 100 miles a day may be more susceptible to gettign ill and also the conditions are not so great, but I answerred this because others are attemtping to infer negative conclusions as to doping which is just stupid.

limerickman said:

As regards your getting sick in Paris - I cannot recall anyone who I have ever met who got food poisoning in Paris. Not one person
As ever you're the exception.
(although I have grave doubts about your claim about being in Paris - such is your tendency to exxagerate).

You can get sick just smelling or looking at andouillette!

DiabloScott said:

You can get sick just smelling or looking at andouillette!

Exactly! OR STANDING NEAR SOMEONE WHO HAS PARTAKEN!!