French Cycling :

limerickman said:

I was in Paris for the Easter weekend.
I hadn't been in Paris for some years and the trip was great.

However just looking at the volume of cycling literature, the number of cycling shops and the amount of people actually cycling, made me wonder if French Cycling is in serious trouble.

I was browsing around several newsagents shops - there were few cycling magazines for sale.
Sports like rugby, soccer and FI were more visible.

I had tried to locate some cycling shops to buy some jerseys and the old cycling shop just of the Rue de Rivoli has gone.

I didn't see anyone cycling a pushbike or racing bike during my four day trip there either.

And it got me thinking - is French cycling in terminal decline?
Since Jalabert retired - there has been no grand champion from France.
Moreau/Chavanel/Moncoutie haven't been able to attain Jalaberts level.

And most worrying from a French perspective is the lack of interest (little or no literature about the sport), lack of bike sales (judging by the shop closure)
and lack of people actually cycling.

You're looking at the wrong place, the cycling scene won't be as large in a major metropolitan place like Paris. During my trip last summer, I saw tons and tons of cyclists in Dijon, Nice, Carpentras, Avignon, etc. They were literally all over the place once you got to the outskirts of the cities. I was very impressed with the interest there, at least in comparison to America.

PartisanRanger said:

You're looking at the wrong place, the cycling scene won't be as large in a major metropolitan place like Paris. During my trip last summer, I saw tons and tons of cyclists in Dijon, Nice, Carpentras, Avignon, etc. They were literally all over the place once you got to the outskirts of the cities. I was very impressed with the interest there, at least in comparison to America.

I compare Paris Easter 2006 to Paris Easter 1997 and Paris Easter 2001.
There were definitely more people pedalling bikes on my two prior visits.
Needless to say these anecdotes aren't scientific but they do give a good indication of the interest levels in the sport in general terms in Paris.
(maybe people are driving more cars/motorbikes??).

But I take on board your comments regarding southern France : maybe there is a good level of interest there.

have seen a similar trend in Denmark over the past 10 years.
still more cyclists than you'd see here, especially more folks cycling to work, bakery, market, etc, but more auto drivers, in spite of the 180% tax on cars there in DK.

weight trend among Europeans steadily going up also.
coincidence?
(they're not at the 'sloppy fat' stage where we are in the US...)

Fuel prices may well change that situation.

Most cycling friendly place I've been in was Amsterdam. Getting around on a bike was not only possible, but very practical. And lots of people doing it.

limerickman said:

I compare Paris Easter 2006 to Paris Easter 1997 and Paris Easter 2001.
There were definitely more people pedalling bikes on my two prior visits.
Needless to say these anecdotes aren't scientific but they do give a good indication of the interest levels in the sport in general terms in Paris.
(maybe people are driving more cars/motorbikes??).

But I take on board your comments regarding southern France : maybe there is a good level of interest there.

Yes , south of Lyon you will find alot more cycling, but in alsace -Lorraine cycling is popular i use to race and traine in that region ,out side of the big city off coure .With gas price at close to $6.00 a gal. you bet cycling is more than populare.:eek:

limerickman said:

I was in Paris for the Easter weekend.
I hadn't been in Paris for some years and the trip was great.

However just looking at the volume of cycling literature, the number of cycling shops and the amount of people actually cycling, made me wonder if French Cycling is in serious trouble.

I was browsing around several newsagents shops - there were few cycling magazines for sale.
Sports like rugby, soccer and FI were more visible.

I had tried to locate some cycling shops to buy some jerseys and the old cycling shop just of the Rue de Rivoli has gone.

I didn't see anyone cycling a pushbike or racing bike during my four day trip there either.

And it got me thinking - is French cycling in terminal decline?
Since Jalabert retired - there has been no grand champion from France.
Moreau/Chavanel/Moncoutie haven't been able to attain Jalaberts level.

And most worrying from a French perspective is the lack of interest (little or no literature about the sport), lack of bike sales (judging by the shop closure)
and lack of people actually cycling.

I travelled through France for 4 consecutive years for 2 weeks each year and saw almost all of it. Every year we were there at the time of TdF but never on the course at the same day. I expected a strong enthusiasm about it but I was disappointed every year. In general, there were almost no riders on the roads. For example, if you go to another main cycling country, Italy (northern part), you can see plenty of riders on the roads, a lot of them in bunch of 5 or more riders. You can feel the cycling spirit there, especially on weekends. I also expected more cycling shops, people watching TdF in bars (as people watch ball sports), more commercial banners in towns where TdF went through few days later and similar.. Maybe my expectations were just too high, they weren`t realistic. I think I`d have to meet the people and would then realised that they`re interested in TdF and cycling. Travelling through country and towns definitely wasn`t enough to see the cycling spirit of one of the biggest cycling countries.

One of the biggest cycling questions for me is what happened to French professional cyclists? Why there are no champions anymore? Italy still has them, Spain still has them, as well as Belgium, the Netherlands...only France doesn`t have a rider who can constantly win big races, even though they have most of ProTour teams and riders(?). Is it because strict doping rules? It`s the same in Italy from this year on. I really wonder about it and would love to hear a good thought.

Virenque said:

One of the biggest cycling questions for me is what happened to French professional cyclists? Why there are no champions anymore? Italy still has them, Spain still has them, as well as Belgium, the Netherlands...only France doesn`t have a rider who can constantly win big races, even though they have most of ProTour teams and riders(?). Is it because strict doping rules? It`s the same in Italy from this year on. I really wonder about it and would love to hear a good thought.

Virenque? I hear he was very popular among his countrymen. Although I can't for the life of me understand why. A cowardly, unrepentant cheat who made his mark in the TdF KOMs for a record number of years - although he proved beyond doubt that the KOM winner in no way reflects anywhere near the best climber in the tour.

Anyway, from what I've read the French authorities are the most keen to stamp out doping in cycling. Maybe thats the reason, that at a young level they are trying to stamp out ped use

One of the French teams in the pro tour, Bouyges (sp?) Telecom, is made of only French riders. And I think they are considered to be as close to a clean team as is posssible. They don't seem to get many major results, they have outspoken anti-dopers there like Moncoutie. So it all suggests that if this happens at a pro level like this, it can only encourage lower level riders to adopt the same stance.

Anyone else got a more informed opinion? Any French out there?

Of course it might also be that their riders just don't enjoy the advantages that they used to. Cycling has become a much more inclusive and interational sport than the 80s when the French were very strong. Maybe its also a factor.

wicklow200 said:

Virenque? I hear he was very popular among his countrymen. .

he still is very popular with the French public - he was one of the "celebrities"
on the current French edition of "I'm a celebrity - get me out of here".

(not that I watch that program - it happened to be on french TV while I was in Paris in April).

limerickman said:

he still is very popular with the French public - he was one of the "celebrities"
on the current French edition of "I'm a celebrity - get me out of here".

Says it all.

wicklow200 said:

Virenque? I hear he was very popular among his countrymen. Although I can't for the life of me understand why. A cowardly, unrepentant cheat who made his mark in the TdF KOMs for a record number of years - although he proved beyond doubt that the KOM winner in no way reflects anywhere near the best climber in the tour.

Anyway, from what I've read the French authorities are the most keen to stamp out doping in cycling. Maybe thats the reason, that at a young level they are trying to stamp out ped use

One of the French teams in the pro tour, Bouyges (sp?) Telecom, is made of only French riders. And I think they are considered to be as close to a clean team as is posssible. They don't seem to get many major results, they have outspoken anti-dopers there like Moncoutie. So it all suggests that if this happens at a pro level like this, it can only encourage lower level riders to adopt the same stance.

Anyone else got a more informed opinion? Any French out there?

Of course it might also be that their riders just don't enjoy the advantages that they used to. Cycling has become a much more inclusive and interational sport than the 80s when the French were very strong. Maybe its also a factor.

One of the reasons why he was so popular is simply that the French didn`t have any other better rider! He didn`t just win the KOM jersey, he was also on the podium twice. 3rd in 1996 and 2nd in 1997. He was 7 times KOM winner, which doesn`t mean he was the best climber, but he was definitely more known because that than he would be if he would be 7 times 10th in GC. The best example for that kind of rider is Moreau. Why is Virenque still so popular? Because of all mentioned above and because his personality. He is always smiling, even when giving interview. He is a perfect athlete for fans and publicity.

The most logical answer why French don`t have champions anymore, is that they have the most strict anti-doping rules. In my opinion, that`s why.

limerickman said:

I was in Paris for the Easter weekend.
I hadn't been in Paris for some years and the trip was great.

However just looking at the volume of cycling literature, the number of cycling shops and the amount of people actually cycling, made me wonder if French Cycling is in serious trouble.

I was browsing around several newsagents shops - there were few cycling magazines for sale.
Sports like rugby, soccer and FI were more visible.

I had tried to locate some cycling shops to buy some jerseys and the old cycling shop just of the Rue de Rivoli has gone.

I didn't see anyone cycling a pushbike or racing bike during my four day trip there either.

And it got me thinking - is French cycling in terminal decline?
Since Jalabert retired - there has been no grand champion from France.
Moreau/Chavanel/Moncoutie haven't been able to attain Jalaberts level.

And most worrying from a French perspective is the lack of interest (little or no literature about the sport), lack of bike sales (judging by the shop closure)
and lack of people actually cycling.

Can't comment on Paris, except to say if I lived there I probably wouldn't ride a bike either - not if I wanted to live long...
I can comment on Normandy though, 'cos that's where I live. There's a very healthy cycling scene, lots of actively supported local clubs (I've just joined my local club, which was free, with a free jersey thrown in, and there's barely room on the jersey for all the sponsors, and if you race and place the club even pays extra prize money over and above whatever you win on the day.) and plenty of racing and cyclosportive action. Races are long by UK standards (even a low-level evening crit can be 90km), and if you do the sub-100km route on a sportive they'll assume you're some kind of limp-wristed deviant. There is a slightly worrying trend away from kids coming into the sport (although most clubs have an 'ecole du cyclisme' to bring on those who do come in), and numbers overall are apparently slightly down on what they were a few years ago, but it's still healthy compared to the UK, as far as I can compare. And as for shops, my local town now has two dedicated lightweight/race shops, one of which is all-new, and the other has just had a complete refit.
Now, why all this doesn't translate to more top French riders, I don't know...

Incidentally - have a look at www.duonormand.com for one the best local events. It's a two-up time trial over a fairly hilly course, open to everyone from numpties up to pros. Boardman and Voigt hold the course record, Chavanel won last year. I'll be doing it again this year, and there's always a good crowd of Brits come over for it. Well worth a trip if you can make it - closed roads, support vehicles, cheering crowds - live like a pro for a day!

Also meant to say that there are loads of cycling mags - for racers, mtbers, race fans, tourists, cyclosportives etc. But magazine distribution is a nightmare in France (I'm a magazine journo and looked into buying patterns here a few years back), and most magazines have far higher proportions of their sales in subscriptions than newsstand sales. I've found the best place to see a good selection of mags is one of the 'grands surfaces' - big supermarkets such as Leclerc, Carrefour, Intermarche etc.

limerickman said:

I was in Paris for the Easter weekend.
I hadn't been in Paris for some years and the trip was great.

However just looking at the volume of cycling literature, the number of cycling shops and the amount of people actually cycling, made me wonder if French Cycling is in serious trouble.

I was browsing around several newsagents shops - there were few cycling magazines for sale.
Sports like rugby, soccer and FI were more visible.

I had tried to locate some cycling shops to buy some jerseys and the old cycling shop just of the Rue de Rivoli has gone.

I didn't see anyone cycling a pushbike or racing bike during my four day trip there either.

And it got me thinking - is French cycling in terminal decline?
Since Jalabert retired - there has been no grand champion from France.
Moreau/Chavanel/Moncoutie haven't been able to attain Jalaberts level.

And most worrying from a French perspective is the lack of interest (little or no literature about the sport), lack of bike sales (judging by the shop closure)
and lack of people actually cycling.

It might be that there are less cyclists in France (i don't know) but i think that the problem in a city like Paris is that it's almost impossible to ride without getting killed... I did a tour from Cologn to Paris last year with some kids from a childrenshome (Lim: i believe i posted this last year, it was the action where Jan supported us with jersey's with autographs that we sold to finance the cycling tour with the kids to the TdF final in Paris..) and the tour was great but the last 10 - 15 kilometers into Paris with young kids with the heavy traffic in Paris.. it really scared me (but that was also because i felt responsible for the kids) and it's no fun to ride in Paris innercity.

But France is a lot more than just a Paris. Plenty of villages and small towns, which means plenty of paved roads without traffic. Of course you can`t train for a cycling if you live in a city like Paris, Lyon, Marseille but that`s not the reason because french countriside is very populated. Especially if you compare it with spanish one.

Virenque said:

But France is a lot more than just a Paris. Plenty of villages and small towns, which means plenty of paved roads without traffic. Of course you can`t train for a cycling if you live in a city like Paris, Lyon, Marseille but that`s not the reason because french countriside is very populated. Especially if you compare it with spanish one.

True, like i said the last 10 - 15 kilometers into the city where really bad, before that: beautiful country very good for cyclingtours.

Eastway82 said:

Can't comment on Paris, except to say if I lived there I probably wouldn't ride a bike either - not if I wanted to live long...
I can comment on Normandy though, 'cos that's where I live. There's a very healthy cycling scene, lots of actively supported local clubs (I've just joined my local club, which was free, with a free jersey thrown in, and there's barely room on the jersey for all the sponsors, and if you race and place the club even pays extra prize money over and above whatever you win on the day.) and plenty of racing and cyclosportive action. Races are long by UK standards (even a low-level evening crit can be 90km), and if you do the sub-100km route on a sportive they'll assume you're some kind of limp-wristed deviant. There is a slightly worrying trend away from kids coming into the sport (although most clubs have an 'ecole du cyclisme' to bring on those who do come in), and numbers overall are apparently slightly down on what they were a few years ago, but it's still healthy compared to the UK, as far as I can compare. And as for shops, my local town now has two dedicated lightweight/race shops, one of which is all-new, and the other has just had a complete refit.
Now, why all this doesn't translate to more top French riders, I don't know...

Incidentally - have a look at www.duonormand.com for one the best local events. It's a two-up time trial over a fairly hilly course, open to everyone from numpties up to pros. Boardman and Voigt hold the course record, Chavanel won last year. I'll be doing it again this year, and there's always a good crowd of Brits come over for it. Well worth a trip if you can make it - closed roads, support vehicles, cheering crowds - live like a pro for a day!

Thanks for the update.
And as an aside, Mrs Limerickman was off shopping in Paris - so I browsed around a couple of bookshops and spotted a french cycling magazine.
In it, they did a feature about a cycling team from Brittany : not too far from your neck of the woods.
One of the directeur sportifs of that local team was Stephane Heulot - formerly of FDJ and bearer of the Maillot Jeune in the 1996 TDF.
Is that one of you local teams ??
Bernard Hinault was interviewed in it - and he spoke quite a lot about the development policy for youth cycling in Brittany and France. An interesting article.

Thanks for that link - I'll check it out.

limerickman said:

Thanks for the update.
And as an aside, Mrs Limerickman was off shopping in Paris - so I browsed around a couple of bookshops and spotted a french cycling magazine.
In it, they did a feature about a cycling team from Brittany : not too far from your neck of the woods.
One of the directeur sportifs of that local team was Stephane Heulot - formerly of FDJ and bearer of the Maillot Jeune in the 1996 TDF.
Is that one of you local teams ??
Bernard Hinault was interviewed in it - and he spoke quite a lot about the development policy for youth cycling in Brittany and France. An interesting article.

Thanks for that link - I'll check it out.

Not one of my local teams - although I'm only about sixty miles from Brittany, there's a lot of teams between me and there! Just in the department of Manche (50) which is where I live, there are 38 clubs!

This is my local club: http://www.agorvalcoutances.info/

Eastway82 said:

Not one of my local teams - although I'm only about sixty miles from Brittany, there's a lot of teams between me and there! Just in the department of Manche (50) which is where I live, there are 38 clubs!

This is my local club: http://www.agorvalcoutances.info/

Merci beaucoup.