Strange patch failure

Ken C. M. said:

Happily this didn't happen while riding.
http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/misc-pics/patch-failure.JPG

My thinking was this was just a bad patch.
I have never seen one fail like that before.
Whats the opinion on this failure?

The offending object is (or was) still in the tire?

Sorni said:

Ken C. M. said:

Happily this didn't happen while riding.
http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/misc-pics/patch-failure.JPG

My thinking was this was just a bad patch.
I have never seen one fail like that before.
Whats the opinion on this failure?

The offending object is (or was) still in the tire?

No. And that was the inward facing side of the tube.

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

Other posters said:

Quoted message said:

The offending object is (or was) still in the tire?

Quoted message said:

No. And that was the inward facing side of the tube.

"The offending object is (or was) still in the" -snip- wheel. The
offending object is a burr @ a spoke hole or a spoke protruding too far
into the rim. Also that is a very strange patch material. Almost looks
like some type of thin duct tape. And is that a patch @ the ctr. of the
tube under the last patch?

Regards, John

Ken C. M. said:

Sorni said:

Ken C. M. said:

Happily this didn't happen while riding.
http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/misc-pics/patch-failure.JPG

My thinking was this was just a bad patch.
I have never seen one fail like that before.
Whats the opinion on this failure?

The offending object is (or was) still in the tire?

No. And that was the inward facing side of the tube.

Ken

Could this be a puncture caused by a spoke nipple?

EJ in NJ

john said:

Other posters said:

Quoted message said:

The offending object is (or was) still in the tire?

Quoted message said:

No. And that was the inward facing side of the tube.

"The offending object is (or was) still in the" -snip- wheel. The
offending object is a burr @ a spoke hole or a spoke protruding too far
into the rim. Also that is a very strange patch material. Almost looks
like some type of thin duct tape. And is that a patch @ the ctr. of the
tube under the last patch?

I did inspect the rim before putting it back together with a new tube
and did not feel anything that could cause that failure.
The patch is one of those from an x-mart "Bell" brand patch kit.
I tried to center the patch over the original punture the best I could,
it' pretty close.
The original punture was made by a shard of glass from a beer bottle(I
think it was a beer bottle anyway).
It looks to me like the patch failed from the inside out.

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

"Ken C. M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Happily this didn't happen while riding.
http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/misc-pics/patch-failure.JPG

My thinking was this was just a bad patch.
I have never seen one fail like that before.
Whats the opinion on this failure?

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

That patch looks a little thin to me. But I don't know, I never tried that
type before.
Now this may or may not be what happened to you but it might be a cause to
the problem.
It is likely the nasty cut in the tire caused by the glass as it got through
to the tube itself. thus the tire's cut is unsupported.
The hole looks to be extra large in the tube, then the patch went in over
the hole in the tube, now the tire is likely seriously cut and the plies
damaged as well, so then you would need to glue a "boot" on the inside of
the tire to reienforce it so that the tube doesn't try to protrude into the
cut as you ride along and hit a bump just right, thus pinching the tube,
leading to another failure. What happens is it may appear to work OK as you
ride along, but when you hit a bump just right that causes the tire to
compress inwards, it opens up the cut as a gap, the high pressure tube then
protrudes into the gap, when the tire rools off the bump the tube gets
pinched, and blows out on your again. It is one of those things that seems
intermittent as you can ride 20 miles one day Ok and never hit a bump on the
cut part of the tire, and the next day hit it just right three times in ten
miles.
I gave up trying to save high pressure tubes with large holes in them, so it
may just be bad luck there, as I haven't gotten large holes to stay patched
all that well.
I did have one rear tire give me a minor heart attack at work in my office.
It was quiet, and I am busily working away, when suddenly BAM! Shwoosh! I
look around thinking something like a water pipe or something had blown.
Nope it was the tire blowing out. Turns out sometime earlier, who knows how
long ago or far back, a small sharp object had punctured the tire and plies
but didn't quite make it all the way to the tube. So the tube being
upsupported eventually blew out through the hole in the tire, aking it
bigger I suppose.
So I used some "GOOP" and glued in a piece of inner tube as a boot, filling
in the hole in the tire too. Of course I put on a new tube as the 1/4" hole
in the tube seemed a little too big for a patch to hold anyway.
The tube after it blew out
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c163/earlwb/Misc%20Stuff/e5ac33ff.jpg
The tire from the outside
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c163/earlwb/Misc%20Stuff/8f4e01a6.jpg
which shows how it is hard to see the damage until after it lets go.
The tire from the inside
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c163/earlwb/Misc%20Stuff/2c6184e4.jpg
So in anycase. makde sure you have fixed or repaired the cut in the tire or
something as it will likely lead to another failure if you don't.

My guess is defective rim tape.

Ken C. M. said:

Happily this didn't happen while riding.
http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/misc-pics/patch-failure.JPG

My thinking was this was just a bad patch.
I have never seen one fail like that before.
Whats the opinion on this failure?

Ken

Looks like you need better rim tape......

-nate

Ken C. M. said:

Happily this didn't happen while riding.
http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/misc-pics/patch-failure.JPG

My thinking was this was just a bad patch.
I have never seen one fail like that before.
Whats the opinion on this failure?

I assume the patch is still in place. The bulge will be where the
original puncture lies. The split will be due to friction between the
tube and the patch at the point of accumulation of talc from inside
the tube as the tube slowly came unbonded from the patch from the
puncture outward. That's my opinion.
--
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Werehatrack said:

Ken C. M. said:

Happily this didn't happen while riding.
http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/misc-pics/patch-failure.JPG

My thinking was this was just a bad patch.
I have never seen one fail like that before.
Whats the opinion on this failure?

I assume the patch is still in place. The bulge will be where the
original puncture lies. The split will be due to friction between the
tube and the patch at the point of accumulation of talc from inside
the tube as the tube slowly came unbonded from the patch from the
puncture outward. That's my opinion.

Possible alternate explanation: The patch may have made the tube
slightly too stiff to fit down into the rim snugly; the bulge, if
that's the case, would be where the patch peeled away from the tube
and ballooned until it popped. Unless the rim's awfully narrow and
the surface of the patch had a remarkably strong grip on the inner
walls of the tire, I see this as pretty much of a near impossibility,
however.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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Ken C. M. said:

The original punture was made by a shard of glass from a beer bottle(I
think it was a beer bottle anyway).

and in a prior post:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The offending object is (or was) still in the tire?

Quoted message said:

No. And that was the inward facing side of the tube.

How did a shard of glass puncture the rim-side of the tube?

--
Greg Estep

Greg Estep said:

Ken C. M. said:

The original punture was made by a shard of glass from a beer bottle(I
think it was a beer bottle anyway).

and in a prior post:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The offending object is (or was) still in the tire?

Quoted message said:

No. And that was the inward facing side of the tube.

How did a shard of glass puncture the rim-side of the tube?

it went clean through both sides of the tube.

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

Ken C. M. said:

Greg Estep said:

How did a shard of glass puncture the rim-side of the tube?

it went clean through both sides of the tube.

Ouch. Then you might have a cut also in the rim tape...

Ciao,
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Ken C. M. said:

Werehatrack said:

Looking at the apparent imprint of the tire sidewalls on the tube, it
looks like the patched area may have been held away from the rim tape
by the stiffness of the patch in concert with the stickiness of the
back of the patch itself; the portion of the tube that seems to have
been between the beads is narrower in the region of the patch, which
makes it likely that this area did not expand down into the rim tape
area properly. The observed results would then be predictable.

Well of all the possible causes of this failure, this one above seems to
make the most sense to me. Because that 'bubble' is exactly where the
tube would be forced down into the 'channel' inside the rim where the
rim tape is over the spoke nipples. So from this explanation, it would
seem that it was partly a bad place to get a punture and poor patch
material, thinner more flexible material may have let the tube into the
channel. Correct?

Most patch material is plenty flexible, but the combination of the
tube and the patch is less so. In such an instance, with a narrow
channel that the tube had to expand into, the observed outcome might
have been avoided if the patch surface had been dusted with a bit of
talc, but it's hard to say...and who carries talc around in their
patch kit, anyway? OTOH, the small round dot patches like those from
REMA are more flexible than the generic Camel-style ones in the Bell
kits, and their reduced coverage area also decreses the amount of the
tube that's stiffened in the patching process.

I think this is mostly a case of "more wasn't better"; a smaller
patch, applied carefully, probably would have avoided the secondary
failure scenario.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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"Ken C. M." wrote:
(snip)

Quoted message said:

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

I would submit that to Visa. I hear they're actively searching for new
material. Seriously.

--
Michael

Michael said:

"Ken C. M." wrote:
(snip)

Quoted message said:

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

I would submit that to Visa. I hear they're actively searching for new
material. Seriously.

LOL. Yeah I have seen a commercial or two asking for submissions to
priceless.com But I think mine may bother too many non-cyclists.

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

Ken C. M. said:

Happily this didn't happen while riding.
http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/misc-pics/patch-failure.JPG

My thinking was this was just a bad patch.
I have never seen one fail like that before.
Whats the opinion on this failure?

It looks like a glueless patch.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Ken C. M. said:

Michael said:

"Ken C. M." wrote:
(snip)

Quoted message said:

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

I would submit that to Visa. I hear they're actively searching for new
material. Seriously.

LOL. Yeah I have seen a commercial or two asking for submissions to
priceless.com But I think mine may bother too many non-cyclists.

Submit it anyway. If it bothers a few gashog pilots, that's just an
added bonus.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ken C. M." wrote:
(snip)

Quoted message said:

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

I would submit that to Visa. I hear they're actively searching for new
material. Seriously.

The use of "slave" would be too controversial for them, too many coffin
drivers would be offended.

Greg
--
"What have you got in that paper bag?
Is it a dose of Vitamin C?
Ain't got no time for Western medicine
I am Damo Suzuki" - Mark E Smith