Alan Howarth

Response to Burt:

Quoted message said:

Just heard on R4 an alleged MP called Allan Howarth, demanding registration
for bicycles.

Is there anyone on this group who is both represented by said idiot, and who
would like to correct the him?

Nobody's represented by him any more; he's a life peer.

(He was a right-wing Tory, but defected from the Conservatives to
Labour: the only two other MPs who've done the same were Oswald Mosley
and Alan B'stard, I think I'm right in saying.)

It was an odd piece on "Today In Parliament", seeming to be just an
interview by a roadside, rather than reporting any ongoing parliamentary
business. Yes, he thinks lawbreaking cyclists make cycle registration
for adults worthwhile, because it would put them at "significant risk of
being caught"; I don't think he's quite thought this through.

--
Mark, UK
"There are some things only intellectuals are crazy enough to believe."

"Mark McNeill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Response to Burt:

Quoted message said:

Just heard on R4 an alleged MP called Allan Howarth, demanding
registration
for bicycles.

Is there anyone on this group who is both represented by said idiot, and
who
would like to correct the him?

Nobody's represented by him any more; he's a life peer.

(He was a right-wing Tory, but defected from the Conservatives to
Labour: the only two other MPs who've done the same were Oswald Mosley
and Alan B'stard, I think I'm right in saying.)

Damn you beat me to the B'stard quip.

Burt said:

Just heard on R4 an alleged MP called Allan Howarth, demanding registration
for bicycles.

If it would stop people jumping red lights and riding dangerously on
pavements then I would support it. However (as pointed out on here
many times) cars have numberplates and get away with driving through
red lights, parking on pavements etc. so it's not a huge deterrent.

peter

Burt said:

Just heard on R4 an alleged MP called Allan Howarth, demanding registration
for bicycles.

Is there anyone on this group who is both represented by said idiot, and who
would like to correct the him?

Nobody is represented by this idiot, as he's in the House of Lords. He
doesn't represent me in more than one way, by the sound of it. Time for
a spot more parliamentary reform methinks.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Jim Price said:

Burt said:

Just heard on R4 an alleged MP called Allan Howarth, demanding registration
for bicycles.

Is there anyone on this group who is both represented by said idiot, and who
would like to correct the him?

Nobody is represented by this idiot, as he's in the House of Lords. He
doesn't represent me in more than one way, by the sound of it. Time for
a spot more parliamentary reform methinks.

No thanks. An unelected HoL does a fantastic job of protecting the
nation from rule by Party line. Just look at the current administration
- the /only/ check to their enthusiasm has been in the HoL.

Burt said:

Is there anyone on this group who is both represented by said idiot, and who
would like to correct the him?

All of us and you can write to him at the House of Lords. I have done
so to other members in the past and always had a reply of some sort.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

I disagree with him too, but I'm coming to the conclusion that ALL
*motorised* vehicles should be registered, whether they use the road or
not.

I've seen many examples of this. I know it's the norm to knock
cyclepaths, but they're undoubtely a good training ground for the
young/inexperienced/old returners/the nervous. Here in Lancaster the
Millenium Bridge is the quickest and easiest way to cross the Lune, and
thereafter you can speed past gridlocked motorists, making whatever
gesture you deem appropriate....

But their safety is compromised by unregistered vehicles on either 2 or
4 wheels, usually driven by the under-17s who wouldn't be allowed
anywhere else, and often driven fast and dangerously.

Worse, in the countryside I've seen people on some sort of motorised
mountain-bikes - similar wheels - churning up paths. They've often been
on bridleways. No doubt genuine mountain bicyclists will get the blame
for the mess they cause.

In either case there's no way to report them. If all such vehicles were
registered as new, then it could be an offence to own an unlicensed
one, even in the back of a van or pick-up. I'm not saying they should
pay road-tax - they could be exempt if never used on roads, like
certain vintage cars.

I'm not saying all motorised vehicles should be banned from cyclepaths
- those electric wheelchair users find them useful, for instance.

Oliver

"Burt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just heard on R4 an alleged MP called Allan Howarth, demanding
registration for bicycles.

What a daft idea. Before you know it, some mad right winger will be
demanding that everybody carries a registration card.....

Burt said:

Just heard on R4 an alleged MP called Allan Howarth, demanding registration
for bicycles.

Is there anyone on this group who is both represented by said idiot, and who
would like to correct the him?

The trouble is, that with so much anti-social and dangerous cycle use,
if it is not mandated for bikes, then for exactly the /same/ reasons, it
should cease to be required for cars.

--
Matt B

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is there anyone on this group who is both represented by said idiot, and
who would like to correct the him?

The trouble is, that with so much anti-social and dangerous cycle use, if
it is not mandated for bikes, then for exactly the /same/ reasons, it
should cease to be required for cars.

I think you're missing the point: if registration for cars patently
obviously doesn't stop drivers behaving in an anti-social and dangerous
manner, why would it have any effect on cyclists?

Also, registration would cost a considerable amount of money, and it is
likely to be complex and confusing, and would undoubtedly prevent some
people cycling. There was yet another report about obesity on R4 this am,
and anything that puts people off cycling is a "bad thing"

And is registration, with all it's complexity and cost, an appropriate
response to the size of this problem? I think not.

Quoted message said:

--
Matt B

Burt said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is there anyone on this group who is both represented by said idiot, and
who would like to correct the him?

The trouble is, that with so much anti-social and dangerous cycle use, if
it is not mandated for bikes, then for exactly the /same/ reasons, it
should cease to be required for cars.

I think you're missing the point: if registration for cars patently
obviously doesn't stop drivers behaving in an anti-social and dangerous
manner, why would it have any effect on cyclists?

I think it's you that has missed my point :-) If, as we seem to agree,
it isn't effective in stopping anti-social car use, then why not, not
only NOT introduce it for cycles, but ALSO abolish it for cars.

--
Matt B

Burt said:

I think you're missing the point

Matt's point is to miss the point.

Not Responding said:

No thanks. An unelected HoL does a fantastic job of protecting the
nation from rule by Party line. Just look at the current administration
- the /only/ check to their enthusiasm has been in the HoL.

One could be tempted to ask if there speaks an Iolanthe fan:-)

The brokenness of our house of commons is a poor excuse for
maintaining their lordships. Was it not someone from your party
who famously hoped Thatcher's majority wouldn't be *too* big,
because that fosters arrogance? Replace Thatcher with The Liar,
a spoilt upper-class twit, and that arrogance was evident from
the start as he played with our constitution like a schoolboy
with his toys. Until he latched onto a bigger boy and
started playing with ever bigger toys:-(

We have a winner-takes-all electoral system that lets a small
tail of "swing" voters wag *both* parties policies, and then
confers absurd amounts of power on a man elected by twenty or
thirty thousand people altogether, through a party that
catches that tail. Fix that system, and the elected house
would itself do a much better job of keeping The Liar to
toys he could handle safely.

--
not me guv

Not Responding said:

Jim Price said:

Burt said:

Just heard on R4 an alleged MP called Allan Howarth, demanding registration
for bicycles.

Is there anyone on this group who is both represented by said idiot, and who
would like to correct the him?

Nobody is represented by this idiot, as he's in the House of Lords. He
doesn't represent me in more than one way, by the sound of it. Time for
a spot more parliamentary reform methinks.

No thanks. An unelected HoL does a fantastic job of protecting the
nation from rule by Party line. Just look at the current administration
- the /only/ check to their enthusiasm has been in the HoL.

Whoosh! There goes a big assumption. Where did I say I wanted it
elected? Anyway, new life peers are elected, just not by a national
vote, but by parties (and size of donation, if you believe the press).
The reform I was thinking about was a way of removing the numpties who
have lost the plot, a bit like relegation - you put some new ones in and
drop a few to make room. That might help focus a few minds and perhaps
get them to engage their brains before speaking out, though like any
rule, it doesn't always stop the ones in the other house.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Nick Kew said:

We have a winner-takes-all electoral system that lets a small
tail of "swing" voters wag *both* parties policies, and then
confers absurd amounts of power on a man elected by twenty or
thirty thousand people altogether, through a party that
catches that tail. Fix that system, and the elected house
would itself do a much better job of keeping The Liar to
toys he could handle safely.

The alternative often giving absurd amounts of power to very small
parties that almost nobody voted for.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Tony Raven said:

The alternative often giving absurd amounts of power to very small
parties that almost nobody voted for.

Disproportionately large, yes, but still not actually very much.
Which is preferable IMHO to giving folk carte blanche on a third of
the vote.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Matt B said:

I think it's you that has missed my point :-) If, as we seem to agree,
it isn't effective in stopping anti-social car use, then why not, not
only NOT introduce it for cycles, but ALSO abolish it for cars.

Your "new" understanding that you throw about so much appears to consist
of repeating the same gibberish at anyone who hasn't yet kill-filed you.
So... in answer to your question (After being roundly chastised for asking
questions and never "saying" anything, have you decided not to use
question marks at all?): ant-social car use poses a far greater threat to
other road users, and engenders a far greater disproportionate balance of
risk between driver and (potential) victim, than anti-social cycle use. It
is for this reason that as a society (And a quick glance around the world
confirms that we are not alone) we choose to regulate motorised vehicle
usage, but (by and large) not un-motorised vehicle usage.

If you have anything "new"[1] or incisive to add, feel free to do so...

Jon

[1] ie. Something that you haven't already dragged up ad infinitum without
proving anything.

Burt said:

Just heard on R4 an alleged MP called Allan Howarth, demanding registration
for bicycles.

Is there anyone on this group who is both represented by said idiot, and who
would like to correct the him?

How did he get his peerage?
Also anybody who really wanted to break the law would probably nick
aforesaid number plates from somebody else's bike...
:-((
Dan Gregory

Peter Clinch said:

Tony Raven said:

The alternative often giving absurd amounts of power to very small
parties that almost nobody voted for.

As opposed to unspoken agendas within big parties that *exactly*
nobody voted for, because they weren't given an option?

Quoted message said:

Disproportionately large, yes, but still not actually very much. Which
is preferable IMHO to giving folk carte blanche on a third of the vote.

You still miss the point (30% wouldn't be such a bad mandate).
But when 90% of that one third are taken for granted, it's the
remaining 3% - not 30% - that determine the agenda. And even
those 3% only get to elect yes-men for The Liar or some alternative.

--
not me guv