Switch to 700c?

Josh Hassol wrote:
I'm wondering if I'd notice much of a difference if I switched to
700c. Thanks!

Quoted message said:

Josh

Yes Josh, you would notice a difference. The main difference you would
note is that the brakes would not line up with the rims anymore.
With that being said, I have an early 1990's M700, with the old "Force
40" brake system - and it might be that the Force 40 pulley is mounted
right where some good road brakes would mount.

If this oprion works for you, great. Otherwise, stopping might be kind
of tough....

Anthony A. said:

Josh Hassol wrote:
I'm wondering if I'd notice much of a difference if I switched to
700c. Thanks!

Quoted message said:

Josh

Yes Josh, you would notice a difference. The main difference you would
note is that the brakes would not line up with the rims anymore.
With that being said, I have an early 1990's M700, with the old "Force
40" brake system - and it might be that the Force 40 pulley is mounted
right where some good road brakes would mount.

If this oprion works for you, great. Otherwise, stopping might be kind
of tough....

Yup! I forgot to mention that I'd need to switch out the brakes. I
have Shimano BR-550R cantis on there now. I'd switch over to v brakes
probably . . .

Josh Hassol said:

My current bike is built on a 58cm Cannondale M700 "CAD2" frame. It's
a hardtail mountain frame, but with geometry close enough to that of a
road bike that I've built it up into a cyclocross-commuter (drop bars,
DA brifters, rigid fork, short-cage rear der., road saddle and post).

I ride 26" wheels with 1.25" high-pressure slicks for commuting.
There's enough room for 700c wheels, and I'm wondering if I'd notice
much of a difference if I switched to 700c. Thanks!

The first difference that you'll encounter is the fun of setting up
the brakes unless you're running discs now.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Josh Hassol said:

My current bike is built on a 58cm Cannondale M700 "CAD2" frame. It's
a hardtail mountain frame, but with geometry close enough to that of a
road bike that I've built it up into a cyclocross-commuter (drop bars,
DA brifters, rigid fork, short-cage rear der., road saddle and post).

I did the same with an old Bontrager.

Quoted message said:

I ride 26" wheels with 1.25" high-pressure slicks for commuting.
There's enough room for 700c wheels, and I'm wondering if I'd notice
much of a difference if I switched to 700c. Thanks!

If you can work out the brake issues I'd say try it. I find that I roll
smoother over small cracks and such with 700c, but I also changed bikes
when I changed wheel size.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

Josh Hassol said:

Anthony A. said:

Josh Hassol wrote:
I'm wondering if I'd notice much of a difference if I switched to
700c. Thanks!

Quoted message said:

Josh

Yes Josh, you would notice a difference. The main difference you would
note is that the brakes would not line up with the rims anymore.
With that being said, I have an early 1990's M700, with the old "Force
40" brake system - and it might be that the Force 40 pulley is mounted
right where some good road brakes would mount.

If this oprion works for you, great. Otherwise, stopping might be kind
of tough....

Yup! I forgot to mention that I'd need to switch out the brakes. I
have Shimano BR-550R cantis on there now. I'd switch over to v brakes
probably . . .

You'll still have to move the pivots. V-brakes use the same pivot
locations as cantis. Technically, V-brakes *are* cantis, just a
different type.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Mavic make an adaptor that moves the brake pivots the right amount.

http://www.mavic.com/ewb_pages/p/produit_accessoire_REHAUSSEURS_DE_TASSEAUX.php?gamme=asphalte

I think SJS cycles sell them.

Werehatrack said:

You'll still have to move the pivots. V-brakes use the same pivot
locations as cantis. Technically, V-brakes *are* cantis, just a
different type.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Good point. I was hoping the V-brakes had enough adjustment in the
calipers (since they are long) to accomodate different wheels.

sodaquad said:

Mavic make an adaptor that moves the brake pivots the right amount.

http://www.mavic.com/ewb_pages/p/produit_accessoire_REHAUSSEURS_DE_TASSEAUX.php?gamme=asphalte

I think SJS cycles sell them.

interesting. I assume they bolt onto the pivots, and then provide a
secondary set of pivots that you mount the brakes on.

Josh Hassol said:

Werehatrack said:

You'll still have to move the pivots. V-brakes use the same pivot
locations as cantis. Technically, V-brakes *are* cantis, just a
different type.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Good point. I was hoping the V-brakes had enough adjustment in the
calipers (since they are long) to accomodate different wheels.

You'd need to raise the pads about an inch - no way you're going to
have room to do that.

OTOH, if the bike had disc brakes...

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Josh Hassol said:

My current bike is built on a 58cm Cannondale M700 "CAD2" frame. It's
a hardtail mountain frame, but with geometry close enough to that of a
road bike that I've built it up into a cyclocross-commuter (drop bars,
DA brifters, rigid fork, short-cage rear der., road saddle and post).

I ride 26" wheels with 1.25" high-pressure slicks for commuting.
There's enough room for 700c wheels, and I'm wondering if I'd notice
much of a difference if I switched to 700c. Thanks!

Josh

I've ridden lots of bikes, with both 26" and 700cc wheels. I don't
think you'd notice much of a difference going to 700cc, especially
considering you've already got slicks. It's not going to make you
any faster, if that's what you're asking. It will change the bike's
handling, and 700cc does roll better over *some* stuff, but the
26" wheels have their advantages too.

I'd say it's not worth the effort, stick with the 26". If you want to
try 700cc get a new bike.

Eric

Quoted message said:

I'd say it's not worth the effort, stick with the 26". If you want to
try 700cc get a new bike.

^^^^^
That'd be a pretty fast bike!

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Josh Hassol said:

I ride 26" wheels with 1.25" high-pressure slicks for commuting.
There's enough room for 700c wheels, and I'm wondering if I'd notice
much of a difference if I switched to 700c. Thanks!

In my experience the 1.25 tires are pretty good if you pump them up
enough. You might see ~1% speed increase with better tires... but you'd
also lose some durability and puncture protection.

When I went from a $350 MTB with FatBoys to a $3,000 road bike my speed
improved about 2%... but the placebo effect doesn't seem to work too
well for me. Others have reported 10+% speed gains after saving a
couple hundred grams on their rims... or changing the color of their
handlebar tape...

Ron Ruff said:

Josh Hassol said:

I ride 26" wheels with 1.25" high-pressure slicks for commuting.
There's enough room for 700c wheels, and I'm wondering if I'd notice
much of a difference if I switched to 700c. Thanks!

In my experience the 1.25 tires are pretty good if you pump them up
enough. You might see ~1% speed increase with better tires... but you'd
also lose some durability and puncture protection.

When I went from a $350 MTB with FatBoys to a $3,000 road bike my speed
improved about 2%... but the placebo effect doesn't seem to work too
well for me. Others have reported 10+% speed gains after saving a
couple hundred grams on their rims... or changing the color of their
handlebar tape...

Nothing makes me faster like fresh bar tape, especially a color change. The blue
splotchy Profile stuff on my 'cross bike was worth at least 30sec a lap.

Ron

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ron Ruff said:

Josh Hassol said:

I ride 26" wheels with 1.25" high-pressure slicks for commuting.
There's enough room for 700c wheels, and I'm wondering if I'd notice
much of a difference if I switched to 700c. Thanks!

In my experience the 1.25 tires are pretty good if you pump them up
enough. You might see ~1% speed increase with better tires... but you'd
also lose some durability and puncture protection.

When I went from a $350 MTB with FatBoys to a $3,000 road bike my speed
improved about 2%... but the placebo effect doesn't seem to work too
well for me. Others have reported 10+% speed gains after saving a
couple hundred grams on their rims... or changing the color of their
handlebar tape...

Nothing makes me faster like fresh bar tape, especially a color change.
The blue
splotchy Profile stuff on my 'cross bike was worth at least 30sec a lap.

Ron

Heya Ron, if you liked the blue you will love RED. Red bar tape has been
statistically proven to be 14% faster than black and 12% faster than most
blues. Of course you need to get the Deda red tape, the Cinelli is actually
more of a orange/brown and is in fact slower than the black in our study.

Also, the redness wears out within about 100 miles or so. We have found that
it is best to change the bar tape before each major event.

Dave

"Josh Hassol" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I ride 26" wheels with 1.25" high-pressure slicks for commuting.
There's enough room for 700c wheels, and I'm wondering if I'd notice
much of a difference if I switched to 700c. Thanks!

Josh

Josh: on the merits of converted MTB bikes, you'll hear a bunch of
rationalization from folks who obviously do not have road bikes. I have
several road and several mountain bikes. If I want the experience of
dawdling along in a 1956 Chevy half-ton, I'll ride my slick-equipped Ritchey
MTB.

For the same heart rate, and watts of output, any road bike is easily faster
on pavement than any mountain bike, with slicks or otherwise. On my regular
commute, the difference is about 5kph. Which is not trivial in that wind
resistance is almost everything, and it increases with the cube of speed.

For the cost of the radical conversion required to convert a MTB to
something faster (light aero wheels with 110 psi tires, and drop bars/new
shifters), you could pick up and fix a 80's era yard sale road bike.

the effective gearing changes, the change is noticeable, and tho one
gets used to it, its not what was designed - the sweet spot(s) are lost
and so now that I think of it, the difference is a complete PITA

Dave Reckoning said:

Heya Ron, if you liked the blue you will love RED. Red bar tape has been
statistically proven to be 14% faster than black and 12% faster than most
blues. Of course you need to get the Deda red tape, the Cinelli is actually
more of a orange/brown and is in fact slower than the black in our study.

Well no wonder!

I once put blue bar tape on one side of my bar, and red on the other,
and the bike would only go around in circles. I guess that's 'cuz one
side of the bar kept getting ahead of the other.

Go figger...

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Dave Mayer said:

For the same heart rate, and watts of output, any road bike is easily faster
on pavement than any mountain bike, with slicks or otherwise. On my regular
commute, the difference is about 5kph. Which is not trivial in that wind
resistance is almost everything, and it increases with the cube of speed.

Obviously a major difference is the handlebar tape... you probably
don't even have any on your MTB, do you?

But seriously... if the MTB is set up to allow an aero position, why
would it be slow?

Quoted message said:

For the cost of the radical conversion required to convert a MTB to
something faster (light aero wheels with 110 psi tires, and drop bars/new
shifters), you could pick up and fix a 80's era yard sale road bike.

He's already done everything but the wheels and tires.

Josh Hassol said:

My current bike is built on a 58cm Cannondale M700 "CAD2" frame. It's
a hardtail mountain frame, but with geometry close enough to that of a
road bike that I've built it up into a cyclocross-commuter (drop bars,
DA brifters, rigid fork, short-cage rear der., road saddle and post).

I ride 26" wheels with 1.25" high-pressure slicks for commuting.
There's enough room for 700c wheels, and I'm wondering if I'd notice
much of a difference if I switched to 700c. Thanks!

No. Just buy fast 26" tires.

I read once that Continental Avenue slicks are actually faster than
Conti's own road racing tires. Having ridden Avenues a lot I can say they
feel about as fast as good 700C racing tires. There are many other fast
slicks for 26" wheels these days too.

With disk brakes you could easily use both sizes. Cannondale even
built a bike like this once. There's no reason to though.

Matt O.