underwater swimming

mrat said:

I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).

Quoted message said:

To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for about
5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)

This is also why you're fainting. You're purging most of the CO2 from your body, which is the
impetus to breathe. This lets you get further, but when your O2 level gets too low you pass out.

Highly dangerous stuff unless you have a spotter dedicated to you for this endeavor.

Is this pool 62yards long? It's an odd distance.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

Hi Mrat(?),

If I remember correctly from my Padi scuba diving course, it can be quite dangerous to first deeply
breath in and out a lot before going under water.... There was something about the brain thinking it
still has enough oxygen in the blood, while actually most of the oxygen in the blood was already
used up, causing a lack of oxygen in the brain and fainting.

I have seen people train on swimming underwater for longer distances... in one pool session they
build up from shorter distances, to longer distances, taking rests in between.... the key seemed to
be safing energy (and oxygen) as much as possible and swimming long and streamlined.

mrat said:

I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).

I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.

To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for
about 5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)

For the strength, I have been going to the pool daily and swimming accross my 25yd pool 5 times in
5 minutes, then stop for about 3 minutes and do 5 more etc.. for 50 minutes, then do it once more
after a 10min break.

so, If anyone has any ideas on how I can better my swimming, please post!

"mrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).

I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.

To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for
about 5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)

For the strength, I have been going to the pool daily and swimming accross my 25yd pool 5 times in
5 minutes, then stop for about 3 minutes and do 5 more etc.. for 50 minutes, then do it once more
after a 10min break.

so, If anyone has any ideas on how I can better my swimming, please post!

Why are you trying to swim underwater?

mrat left this mess on 2 Sep 2003 13:26:25 -0700 for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).

I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.

To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for about
5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)

For the strength, I have been going to the pool daily and swimming accross my 25yd pool 5 times in
5 minutes, then stop for about 3 minutes and do 5 more etc.. for 50 minutes, then do it once more
after a 10min break.

so, If anyone has any ideas on how I can better my swimming, please post!

You're becoming hypoxic, which means you're over-oxygenating. As someone else pointed out, this is
not letting your body trigger its mechanism for cabon dioxide buildup, which is contributing to
passing out underwater.

Here's what you need to do:

1) Don't walk around the pool first. Increased aerobic capacity *will* help, but you need to
actually train when you're not about to do this. All you're doing now is tiring yourself out.

2) Three deep breaths in the water just before you push off the wall should be all you need to go
the distance, conditioning permitting.

3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but release
air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible decompression hits
(more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air only a few feet under the
water, if you are not careful.)

4) Work on your technique. You'll probably find the breaststroke is the most efficient stroke for
your goals (it allows the most gliding).

I've personally gone 70 yards underwater, when I was swimming competitively. You should be able to
get to 62.

Tao te Carl

"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

To state the obvious, you fainted because you did too much activity without breathing. What you are
attempting is incredibly dangerous and serves no valid purpose. Perhaps we'll read about you soon in
the Darwin awards.

"mrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).

I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.

To improve oxygen, I have been walking around my pool breathing large breaths continously for
about 5-7 minutes then take one last huge breath then swim (this really seems to help)

For the strength, I have been going to the pool daily and swimming accross my 25yd pool 5 times in
5 minutes, then stop for about 3 minutes and do 5 more etc.. for 50 minutes, then do it once more
after a 10min break.

so, If anyone has any ideas on how I can better my swimming, please post!

de Valois said:

3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but
release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible
decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air only
a few feet under the water, if you are not careful.)

How exactly is he going to get bent in a few feet of water (or anything less than 30ft), and how is
exhaling (which is good to do for staying comfortable) going to change it? There isn't enough
nitrogen in that breath to hurt him.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

Colin Priest said:

To state the obvious, you fainted because you did too much activity without breathing. What you are
attempting is incredibly dangerous and serves no valid purpose. Perhaps we'll read about you soon
in the Darwin awards.

He could just sit on the chair and type into the newsgroups. So long as he has someone watching,
what's the harm? This is far less dangerous than deep air diving records.

Anyone ought to be able to get up to 25 yards - the challenge past 50 is the lack of a facility to
do it as few pools are longer.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

mrat said:

I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool was
open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of water).

These attempts should be made only with someone on deck watching you, who has the ability to save
your life. It must be someone who can get to you underwater quickly, get you to the surface, lift
you out of the water, and administer mouth-to-mout resusitation.

Quoted message said:

I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.

You can't eliminate the problem. Others have already explained the cause. Basically, when you try
underwater swimming for distance, you should just relax at the side of the pool for a few minutes.
When you are ready, take a few deep breaths. Just a few. And then push off. You don't want to
subvert your body's natural breathing signal system. If you hyperventilate too much (take too many
deep breaths and too quickly), you run a much greater risk of subverting that system. Once it
fails, you are in danger of passing out, and nothing will prevent it but surfacing and breathing
before it happens.

martin

--
Martin Smith email: [email hidden] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway

de Valois said:

3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but
release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible
decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air only
a few feet under the water, if you are not careful.)

You can only get the bends breathing compressed air.

martin

--
Martin Smith email: [email hidden] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway

Jason O'Rourke left this mess on Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:34:38 +0000 (UTC) for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

de Valois said:

3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but
release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible
decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air only
a few feet under the water, if you are not careful.)

How exactly is he going to get bent in a few feet of water (or anything less than 30ft), and how is
exhaling (which is good to do for staying comfortable) going to change it? There isn't enough
nitrogen in that breath to hurt him.

Do we know how deep the pool is? What if there's a diving platform and he's skimming the bottom to
extend his distance and he's down around 12 feet?

He could certainly get bent there. We include in "bent", all forms of AGE, you'll recall and a lung
expansion injury, especially if he's forcing a breath-hold, is a definite possibility at 12 feet.

Tao te Carl

"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:59:06 +0200 for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

de Valois said:

3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but
release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible
decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air only
a few feet under the water, if you are not careful.)

You can only get the bends breathing compressed air.

Not so. Free divers get bent too.

Tao te Carl

"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

de Valois said:

Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:59:06 +0200 for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

de Valois said:

3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge to exhale, but
release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also prevent any possible
decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and yes, they can happen on surface air
only a few feet under the water, if you are not careful.)

You can only get the bends breathing compressed air.

Not so. Free divers get bent too.

Do you mean the guys that compete? That is hardly applicable here, don't you think? They would have
to ascend like a rocket. You can't get the bends swimming underwater in a swimming pool, compressed
air or not.

martin

--
Martin Smith email: [email hidden] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway

Martin W. Smith said:

de Valois said:

You most certainly can, at a shallow depth, on surface air, suffer a lung overexpansion injury
which is a form of the bends.

No it isn't. The bends refers to the pain caused by nitrogen bubbles forming in the tissues. A
ruptured lung is a ruptured lung. It has nothing to do with the bends.

Correct. If we're going to be anal about terms in order to make up for our incorrect statements,
let's get it straight, Carl.

DCS=decompression sickness=bends. Free divers can get bent if they dive very deep repeatedly. Deep
means 100ft+. DCI=decompression illness, which can be either DCS or AGE. He's in no danger of this
in a pool either. This term is used because in an emergency situation, the immediate care is the
same regardless of which type it is.

There is no doubt what happened to the guy - he successfully hyperventilated and then went hypoxic.
If he switches to just doing a few deep breathes he may lose a few meters for a while, but with a
lower chance of it happening again. Then he can work on getting just a bit better.
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

de Valois said:

A difference which makes no difference is no difference, Factboy.

If you'll recall, I did not say he HAD a hit, rather in the course of giving him tips regarding
swimming for distance underwater, he should take pains to not try to hold his breath because of the
(admittedly slight) possibility of a DCI hit (popularly called the bends, and of course, I used the
layman's terms to make it clear to non-divers what I was talking about).

You never improve the layman by using the wrong term. Why not say oxygen tank while you're at it.
The bends is a very specific term, coined centuries before you or I started diving, with the caisson
workers who most definitely did not suffer an embolism.

Martin and I have both tried to help you here, but you're as intractable as ever, Shovelboy.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:31:00 +0200 for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

de Valois said:

Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:59:06 +0200 for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

de Valois wrote:
>3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge

to

Quoted message said:

> exhale, but release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also
> prevent any possible decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and

yes,

Quoted message said:

>they can happen on surface air only a few feet under the water, if you are not
> careful.)

You can only get the bends breathing compressed air.

Not so. Free divers get bent too.

Do you mean the guys that compete? That is hardly applicable here, don't you think? They would have
to ascend like a rocket. You can't get the bends swimming underwater in a swimming pool, compressed
air or not.

You most certainly can, at a shallow depth, on surface air, suffer a lung overexpansion injury which
is a form of the bends.

In fact, from what the OP put up here, he may have been a prime candidate for one. The fact that he
fainted tells me he was probably holding his breath and might have been straining to do so. As the
muscles in his chest tighten, they constrict the ability of the lungs to re-expand. They will
contract even at ten feet.

Think of it in these terms: you take a balloon, and squeeze it as you descend, continue to squeeze
it on the bottom, and then hold that squeeze as you re-ascend. The balloon, which had formerly fit
in your hands, will now be squeezing thru the spaces between your fingers. THAT'S a lung injury.

One more thing: your odds of getting bent are far greater in the last thirty feet of water than they
are at any point in ascending from a greater depth. The proportionate change in pressure is much
bigger, and in that thirty feet, each third of it is more dangerous than the previous one.

Tao te Carl

"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

Jason O'Rourke left this mess on Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:17:26 +0000 (UTC) for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

Martin W. Smith said:

de Valois said:

You most certainly can, at a shallow depth, on surface air, suffer a lung overexpansion injury
which is a form of the bends.

No it isn't. The bends refers to the pain caused by nitrogen bubbles forming in the tissues. A
ruptured lung is a ruptured lung. It has nothing to do with the bends.

Correct. If we're going to be anal about terms in order to make up for our incorrect statements,
let's get it straight, Carl.

DCS=decompression sickness=bends. Free divers can get bent if they dive very deep repeatedly. Deep
means 100ft+. DCI=decompression illness, which can be either DCS or AGE. He's in no danger of this
in a pool either. This term is used because in an emergency situation, the immediate care is the
same regardless of which type it is.

A difference which makes no difference is no difference, Factboy.

If you'll recall, I did not say he HAD a hit, rather in the course of giving him tips regarding
swimming for distance underwater, he should take pains to not try to hold his breath because of the
(admittedly slight) possibility of a DCI hit (popularly called the bends, and of course, I used the
layman's terms to make it clear to non-divers what I was talking about).

If he swims along the bottom to increase his distance, then he might...*might*...conceivably reach a
depth where DCI is a remote possibility, say at the diving board end of a community pool, which
might range as deep as twelve feet.

The advice to not hold his breath still stands. He can get a DCI hit, because you have no way of
knowing whether his alveoli aren't damaged to begin with.

Tao te Carl

"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

de Valois said:

Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:31:00 +0200 for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

de Valois said:

Martin W. Smith left this mess on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:59:06 +0200 for The Way to clean up:
>
>de Valois wrote:
>>3) Stay low, stay level, and glide as much as possible. Do NOT fight the urge
to
>> exhale, but release air slowly and continuously as you swim. This will also
>> prevent any possible decompression hits (more commonly called the bends and
yes,
>>they can happen on surface air only a few feet under the water, if you are not
>> careful.)
>
>You can only get the bends breathing compressed air.
>

Not so. Free divers get bent too.

Do you mean the guys that compete? That is hardly applicable here, don't you think? They would
have to ascend like a rocket. You can't get the bends swimming underwater in a swimming pool,
compressed air or not.

You most certainly can, at a shallow depth, on surface air, suffer a lung overexpansion injury
which is a form of the bends.

No it isn't. The bends refers to the pain caused by nitrogen bubbles forming in the tissues. A
ruptured lung is a ruptured lung. It has nothing to do with the bends.

Quoted message said:

In fact, from what the OP put up here, he may have been a prime candidate for one. The fact that
he fainted tells me he was probably holding his breath and might have been straining to do so. As
the muscles in his chest tighten, they constrict the ability of the lungs to re-expand. They will
contract even at ten feet.

He wasn't at ten feet. He was swimming for distance in a competition swimming pool. The bends has
nothing to do with ruptured lungs.

Quoted message said:

Think of it in these terms: you take a balloon, and squeeze it as you descend, continue to squeeze
it on the bottom, and then hold that squeeze as you re-ascend. The balloon, which had formerly fit
in your hands, will now be squeezing thru the spaces between your fingers. THAT'S a lung injury.

Yes, that is a lung injury. It has nothing to do with the bends. And, when you are not breathing
compressed air, your lungs cannot expand further than they were extended when you took the breath
you are holding.

Quoted message said:

One more thing: your odds of getting bent are far greater in the last thirty feet of water than
they are at any point in ascending from a greater depth. The proportionate change in pressure is
much bigger, and in that thirty feet, each third of it is more dangerous than the previous one.

For the last time, getting bent refers to the pain caused by bubbles of nitrogen forming in the body
tissues. It has nothing to do with ruptured lungs.

martin

--
Martin Smith email: [email hidden] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway

I was just wondering how one goes about increasing the distance one can swim underwater at the pool
(no great depth).

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

mrat said:

I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool
was open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of
water).

These attempts should be made only with someone on deck watching you, who has the ability to save
your life. It must be someone who can get to you underwater quickly, get you to the surface, lift
you out of the water, and administer mouth-to-mout resusitation.

Quoted message said:

I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.

You can't eliminate the problem. Others have already explained the cause. Basically, when you try
underwater swimming for distance, you should just relax at the side of the pool for a few minutes.
When you are ready, take a few deep breaths. Just a few. And then push off. You don't want to
subvert your body's natural breathing signal system. If you hyperventilate too much (take too many
deep breaths and too quickly), you run a much greater risk of subverting that system. Once it
fails, you are in danger of passing out, and nothing will prevent it but surfacing and breathing
before it happens.

martin

Scuba tanks

Dory said:

I was just wondering how one goes about increasing the distance one can swim underwater at the
pool (no great depth).

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

mrat said:

I've been trying to swim about 62yds underwater this summer, and on the last day that my pool
was open, I got only about 56-58yds when I fainted (luckily, I only woke up with a mouthful of
water).

These attempts should be made only with someone on deck watching you, who has the ability to
save your life. It must be someone who can get to you underwater quickly, get you to the
surface, lift you out of the water, and administer mouth-to-mout resusitation.

Quoted message said:

I have attributed it to two possible reasons:
1) I am not getting enough oxygen into my lungs before I swim.
2) I am not strong enough to swim the distance.

You can't eliminate the problem. Others have already explained the cause. Basically, when you
try underwater swimming for distance, you should just relax at the side of the pool for a few
minutes. When you are ready, take a few deep breaths. Just a few. And then push off. You don't
want to subvert your body's natural breathing signal system. If you hyperventilate too much
(take too many deep breaths and too quickly), you run a much greater risk of subverting that
system. Once it fails, you are in danger of passing out, and nothing will prevent it but
surfacing and breathing before it happens.

martin