Atkins report #3

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

snip

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking about Larry's idea of using both the low-carb and high-carb diets at
different times of the year. Briefly, the idea was to use the low-carb diet during the
foundation-building part of the swimming season, when the swimmers do a lot of yardage per day to
build up endurance and establish a good foundation from which to build speed. In the second half
of the season, switch to the high-carb diet to enhance the speed building and peaking process.
During the low-carb phase, red muscle fibers would be developed. During the high-carb phase, the
white fibers would be developed, and the red fibers would also be used.

snip

Quoted message said:

martin

interesting idea. What type of races do you compete in? I am primarily a 100/200 guy, Backstroke and
IM, 100 Fly, maybe a 400 IM when I feel a little masochistic.

My low carbing has done pretty well for me in workouts, which usually are from 3,000 to 6,000 yards
over the course of 1 to 2 hours. I haven't competed in over 3 years but do plan to resume this year
in Novemeber, a SCM meet. Should I make any dietetic changes prior to competing? I will still be in
weight loss mode at that point, hoping to be around 230 to 235 lbs, with maybe 15 to 20 lbs to go to
get to my target of 220. Since my races usually last around 1 minute to a little over 2 minutes, is
there anything I should do race day to ensure proper speed? Doing lactates in practice I've been
able to turn in times I have not been able to do previously, though of course, they are not as fast
as race swims.

On a side note, what sort of decrease in time should I expect given a reduction of my body mass by
approx 20%? I know in car racing, all things being constant, reducing the weight of a vehicle while
maintaing the same horsepower, etc, will result in a faster car. I know in swimming, many more
things come into play, foremost your condition and training as well as technique and execution of
starts and turns. But in the perfect world, for 100m race, there should be a decrease in time needed
to complete it based on the fact that I have 20% less mass to pull.

Art

Sam Hain said:

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

snip

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking about Larry's idea of using both the low-carb and high-carb diets at
different times of the year. Briefly, the idea was to use the low-carb diet during the
foundation-building part of the swimming season, when the swimmers do a lot of yardage per day
to build up endurance and establish a good foundation from which to build speed. In the second
half of the season, switch to the high-carb diet to enhance the speed building and peaking
process. During the low-carb phase, red muscle fibers would be developed. During the high-carb
phase, the white fibers would be developed, and the red fibers would also be used.

snip

Quoted message said:

martin

interesting idea. What type of races do you compete in? I am primarily a 100/200 guy, Backstroke
and IM, 100 Fly, maybe a 400 IM when I feel a little masochistic.

I'm not competing here in Norway. I like open water swims, but there aren't any up here that I know
of. I just do a lot of training, water and land, and I like to measure progress over time.

Quoted message said:

My low carbing has done pretty well for me in workouts, which usually are from 3,000 to 6,000
yards over the course of 1 to 2 hours. I haven't competed in over 3 years but do plan to resume
this year in Novemeber, a SCM meet. Should I make any dietetic changes prior to competing?

Without having tried it, I would recommend just changing the balance of yoour diet in the week
before competing. lower the fat percentage and increase the carb percentage, but continue to stay
away from sugar and flour. After the competition, swtich back to your normal, training diet.

Quoted message said:

I will still be in weight loss mode at that point, hoping to be around 230 to 235 lbs, with maybe
15 to 20 lbs to go to get to my target of 220. Since my races usually last around 1 minute to a
little over 2 minutes, is there anything I should do race day to ensure proper speed?

I would just eat light the night before and the morning before, and no fat. I like to have a coffee
before competing.

Quoted message said:

Doing lactates in practice I've been able to turn in times I have not been able to do previously,
though of course, they are not as fast as race swims.

On a side note, what sort of decrease in time should I expect given a reduction of my body mass by
approx 20%?

That is a difficult question. I would try not to expect a big drop, because the improvement might
lag behind the weight loss, especially since you are still in OWL. I would also do some time trials,
maybe a month before the races and two weeks before. Prepare for these time trials the way you will
prepare for the actual competition.

Quoted message said:

I know in car racing, all things being constant, reducing the weight of a vehicle while maintaing
the same horsepower, etc, will result in a faster car. I know in swimming, many more things come
into play, foremost your condition and training as well as technique and execution of starts and
turns. But in the perfect world, for 100m race, there should be a decrease in time needed to
complete it based on the fact that I have 20% less mass to pull.

Assuming you have not lost muscle mass, you will do well. I also recommend doing some light weights
a few times a week, if you aren't doing them already. Here in Norway, we have a class at the fitness
club, which is weight lifting set to aerobics music. Light weights with a barbell, lots of reps, one
hour class. Very good for swimmers.

martin

--
Martin Smith email: [email hidden] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway

In article said:

The more I think about it, the more this makes sense in the evolution picture, particularly for
people whose ancestors are from the northern latitudes. Mine are Norwegian, Swedish, German, and
Scottish. That far north, carbs were not available year round. For much of the year, people ate
fish and game. During late summer and autumn, they would have eaten a lot more carbs. Then when the
carbs disappeared, they would have gone back to fish and game again. I don't know yet how I will
break it up. Maybe low-carb for half the year and high-carb for the other half.

That's a fascinating and insightful angle to the old "Paleolithic Diet" theory of human nutrition.

Here's what I'm now wondering...

Finland has the highest incidence of heart disease in the world. But this is, perhaps, because of
modern agriculture, where grains, and fruits, and veggies and other carboyhdrates are now available
all year around. Blood lipids seem to do reasonably to very well with either high fat/low carb or
low fat/high carb, but they do really stinky with high fat/high carb.

I'm thinking that pre-agriculture Finns probably didn't have all that much heart disease. On the
other hand, they doubtless had hard lives and didn't often live long enough to have developed heart
disease, even if at risk. Then there's the exercise angle. So it's not so simple.

Still, I do think that the concept of "seasonal dieting" may, as you suggest, be well grounded in
evolutionary development.

My advice is not to talk about it anymore, but to get right to work on a popular diet book. "The
Revolutionary Seasonal Diet"

It's just the thing for people who do well on Atkins, but develop taste fatique and carb cravings;
and perhaps for people who might have benefitted from a Pritikin-type approach, but got to the point
where they really wanted a thick, juicy steak. You'd be switching back and forth, in a very radical
sort of way (probably you'd want to design in a transition period going both ways). Kind of
Jekyl/Hyde in the kitchen.

Larry Weisenthal

Certitude is poison; curiosity is life

Does anybody know what percentage of people control their weight without dieting, and
without exercise?

I know a man who is 52 years old, he doesn't work out, he's 5'9" tall and weighs 155 pounds.
Always has.

When we went to dinner with them, he ordered a pasta dish. Of course, a huge plate of food arrived,
he ate about half, picked at a little bit, then his wife swooped in and finished his dinner (after
cleaning her plate of course!)

So I'm thinking a guy like this is no more than 10% of the population. The vast majority of us are
gluttons. But I was curious if anybody had harder data.

I also like the notion of the seasonal diet. Since Atkins pays such big dividends in the beginning,
I was thinking maybe start every quarter of the year with a 2-3 week Atkins.

Last year while running a lot I weighed 163 pounds. Now I'm swimming 5 times a week - 178 pounds. I
gotta do something.

Eric

Does anybody know what percentage of people control their weight without dieting, and
without exercise?

I know a man who is 52 years old, he doesn't work out, he's 5'9" tall and weighs 155 pounds.
Always has.

When we went to dinner with them, he ordered a pasta dish. Of course, a huge plate of food arrived,
he ate about half, picked at a little bit, then his wife swooped in and finished his dinner (after
cleaning her plate of course!)

So I'm thinking a guy like this is no more than 10% of the population. The vast majority of us are
gluttons. But I was curious if anybody had harder data.

I also like the notion of the seasonal diet. Since Atkins pays such big dividends in the beginning,
I was thinking maybe start every quarter of the year with a 2-3 week Atkins.

Last year while running a lot I weighed 163 pounds. Now I'm swimming 5 times a week - 178 pounds. I
gotta do something.

Eric

[email hidden] (4precious) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Does anybody know what percentage of people control their weight without dieting, and without
exercise?

I know a man who is 52 years old, he doesn't work out, he's 5'9" tall and weighs 155 pounds.
Always has.

When we went to dinner with them, he ordered a pasta dish. Of course, a huge plate of food
arrived, he ate about half, picked at a little bit, then his wife swooped in and finished his
dinner (after cleaning her plate of course!)

The guy who plays bass in my band is like this. 46 years old, skinny as a rail, eats whatever and
however much he wants. He may have a great metabolism.

Quoted message said:

So I'm thinking a guy like this is no more than 10% of the population. The vast majority of us are
gluttons. But I was curious if anybody had harder data.

I also like the notion of the seasonal diet. Since Atkins pays such big dividends in the
beginning, I was thinking maybe start every quarter of the year with a 2-3 week Atkins.

thats not going to help. the weight lost in the first few weeks of atkins is mostly water weight due
to the decrease of glycogen in the body. as soon as you go off that diet and replenish those
glycogen stores, your weight will return.

Quoted message said:

Last year while running a lot I weighed 163 pounds. Now I'm swimming 5 times a week - 178 pounds.
I gotta do something.

maybe you just need to watch the calories. For atheletes an ideal body weight seems like a tough
number to find. Since you tend to have more muscle mass (which is much denser and thus much heavier
than fat) the BMI values really don't apply to atheletes. Swimming is a great calorie burner, and
also works much more of your body than running. You are adding upper body muscle mass that running
would not develop (unless you lifted or did other types of upper body exercise). What makes you
think you are overweight? If you have obvious fat on your body (my belly tells me I do) then the
bottom line is calories in versus calories expended. what process you use to decrease that is up to
you and what plan you can stick with. I do Atkins because it allows me the foods I like, it
naturally suppresses hunger, and its easy for me to stick with. I know people who can't do it, they
love bread too much.

You may want to have your body fat measured to get an accurate picture of what your wieght
should be.

[email hidden] (Larry Weisenthal) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Someone really does need to voluteer to be the guinea pig on the seasonal diet.

Say Atkins for a season, then mediteranean, then back, and so forth.

For very committed dieters, maybe Atkins->mediterranean->Pritikin/Ornish->Asian->Atkins. The big
advantages are that you wouldn't get tired of the food and you'd mitigate the more troblematic
areas of the Atkins diet.

Larry Weisenthal

Certitude is poison; curiosity is life

with my luck, i'd forget what diet I was on and stay on the "American" diet, high carbs, high fat,
all the time! (which is what got me into this mess in the first place!)