It all happens so quickly

OMG!! Please be careful out there!! Everyone has loved ones who have to bear
the brunt of this sort of news everytime it happens!!

Tragic.

darryl said:

Bill rubbed the
rider's wheel in front of him and crashed to the pavement, as the
Dodge pickup and trailer passed by, unknowingly crushing Bill.

Sounds to me like Bill caused his own demise. Riding too close to the rider
in front in conditions in which this was very unsafe.

Theo

Theo Bekkers said:

Sounds to me like Bill caused his own demise. Riding too close to the rider
in front in conditions in which this was very unsafe.

......well if an accident ever happens to you then may we all remember
to say something compassionate

or

following your example comclude that you may have been at fault and
thats what you deserve!

Nicely put, Rayc. That was a bit sad.

Donga

quote='Theo Bekkers'darryl said:

Bill rubbed the
rider's wheel in front of him and crashed to the pavement, as the
Dodge pickup and trailer passed by, unknowingly crushing Bill.

Sounds to me like Bill caused his own demise. Riding too close to the rider
in front in conditions in which this was very unsafe.

Theo[/QUOTE]That has to be the most inconsiderate bulls**t I have heard in many a long time.

The pickup should have been passing MUCH wider.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Theo Bekkers said:

darryl said:

Bill rubbed the
rider's wheel in front of him and crashed to the pavement, as the
Dodge pickup and trailer passed by, unknowingly crushing Bill.

Sounds to me like Bill caused his own demise. Riding too close to the rider
in front in conditions in which this was very unsafe.

Theo

Theo,

Although you might have expressed it differently, you could be right. Or
you could be wrong. Is that how you felt about the women's AIS team
accident?

The point that I was trying to make is that a life-changing event
happens so quickly and the circumstances where the result is life are
not very different from ending in death.

I can remember a number of situations during my life that could have
ended fatally but did not. It was not because of any particular skill
that I had to extract myself from danger - just luck.

For example, for those readers who know Military Road at Mosman on the
North Shore of Sydney Harbour, I used to ride this road daily. It is
busy and the pace is hot as vehicles drive to and fro. One particular
morning on my way to work a 10 tonne tip-truck and trailer passed quite
close by and the air turbulence between the parked cars and this block
of sheet steel was severe causing me to unbalance. I could hear the
truck approaching from behind and I was prepared to be passed but not
prepared for the trailer which, because of my momentary unsteadiness
brushed my arm. Another centimetre and I was toast.

On the same road coming home, a workmate was not so lucky. A pregnant
woman opened her car door as he approached and, in his effort to avoid
hitting her he swerved into the side of a truck that was passing.
Luckily the truck driver had been alert and also tried to avoid him but
on a multi-lane road there was nowhere to go. My mate had his leg
'degloved' from the knee down and has suffered horribly for several
years with the mental and physical trauma.

I could list quite a few harrowing tales from my motorcycling, cycling,
sea kayaking and bushwalking days. I am not accident-prone but have
lived a life outdoors. I am thankful that all my injuries have been
repairable but I just happened to fall to the survival side of the knife
edge. It might easily be different the next time. For me, that is cause
to think about the fine line between life and death.

regards,
Darryl

Rayc said:

Theo Bekkers wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds to me like Bill caused his own demise. Riding too close to
the rider in front in conditions in which this was very unsafe.

Quoted message said:

.....well if an accident ever happens to you then may we all remember
to say something compassionate

or

following your example comclude that you may have been at fault and
thats what you deserve!

Certainly, if I was doing something stupid, please feel free to point out to
everyone that Theo contributed to his own demise and the lesson is, don't
ride so close to another rider on a road where it should be obvious that
nasty things will happen if something unforeseen happens. Hopefully somebody
may learn something from my demise.

I know it sounds callous of me but you think that a car driver should leave
enough room for a rider to fall down and skid along the road? This is not
something the driver would expect and it appears the rider was alongside the
vehiclew when it happened so the driver had no chancee of avoidance. I'm
sorry for Bill's family and it was an unfortunate incident. To try and
somehow blame the car driver is, IMHO, ridiculous. Riding along a rubbish
strewn narrow road with lots of traffic within an inch of the wheel in front
of you is not only silly, it is probably also illegal.

Theo

On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 17:16:50 +0800, "Theo Bekkers"
<[email hidden]> wrote in aus.bicycle:

Quoted message said:

darryl said:

Bill rubbed the
rider's wheel in front of him and crashed to the pavement, as the
Dodge pickup and trailer passed by, unknowingly crushing Bill.

Sounds to me like Bill caused his own demise. Riding too close to the rider
in front in conditions in which this was very unsafe.

I think that is a bit harsh, everybody makes mistakes. The first
Sydeny to Gong I went on (so many years ago) about 50 yards in front
of me a bike touched the rear wheel of a bike in front and reared up
in the air throwing the rider into the adjacent lane. Fortunately at
that moment there was no cars coming buit it could have been equally
tragic. A moments lapse in concentration, a distraction, it could
happen to any of us.

Regards
Prickles

Timendi causa est nescire
This message only uses recycled electrons

steve46au said:

Theo Bekkers Wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds to me like Bill caused his own demise. Riding too close to the
rider
in front in conditions in which this was very unsafe.

Quoted message said:

That has to be the most inconsiderate bulls**t I have heard in
many a long time.

The pickup should have been passing MUCH wider.

OK, I'm sorry. It was the pick-up drivers fault Bill ran into the wheel he
was following at a distance of 1 inch.

Theo

Spiny Norman said:

"Theo Bekkers" wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds to me like Bill caused his own demise. Riding too close to
the rider in front in conditions in which this was very unsafe.

Quoted message said:

I think that is a bit harsh, everybody makes mistakes. The first
Sydeny to Gong I went on (so many years ago) about 50 yards in front
of me a bike touched the rear wheel of a bike in front and reared up
in the air throwing the rider into the adjacent lane. Fortunately at
that moment there was no cars coming buit it could have been equally
tragic. A moments lapse in concentration, a distraction, it could
happen to any of us.

Certainly everybody makes mistakes. One of those is sitting an inch away
from the rider in front of you in traffic. I never do that. Apart from being
dangerous it is probably illegal. It is also illegal to race on public
roads. You want to race get off the roads.

Theo

Theo Bekkers wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I know it sounds callous of me but you think that a car driver should leave
enough room for a rider to fall down and skid along the road? This is not

<snip>

When you overtake another vehicle, do you not allow enough room for the
vehicle to veer slightly (as may occur if the driver shoulder checks, so
many people bloody veer) - do you pass so close to it that they must
travel perfectly straight to not hit you?

When someone crosses the road in front of you where there is no marked
crossing, do you just assume that they'll keep going at the same pace?
Do you not allow yourself sufficient stopping distance lest they trip
and fall in front of your vehicle?

A driver should always, always, always allow themselves enough space to
react to a changing situation.

Tam

Theo Bekkers said:

steve46au said:

Theo Bekkers Wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds to me like Bill caused his own demise. Riding too close to the
rider
in front in conditions in which this was very unsafe.

Quoted message said:

That has to be the most inconsiderate bulls**t I have heard in
many a long time.

The pickup should have been passing MUCH wider.

OK, I'm sorry. It was the pick-up drivers fault Bill ran into the wheel he
was following at a distance of 1 inch.

Theo

Where did you get that measurement from, Theo? "On his wheel" is still
wheelsucking at 5, 10 inches, in different conditions. The original post
didn't say 1 inch.

Tam

(While discussing "1 inch" I'll resist the urge to link that length to
Prado drivers in an unflattering way.)

darryl said:

Theo,

Although you might have expressed it differently,

I know, I used to be able to spell subtle.

Quoted message said:

you could be right.
Or you could be wrong. Is that how you felt about the women's AIS team
accident?

I think the circumstances were different, no-one on the team fell down in
front of a car. OTOH, I don't think pelotons have any place on a road that
has other traffic on it. People fall down in pelotons. Falls happen to the
world's most experienced racing cyclists in the TourdeF several times every
day. You should expect to fall down in a peloton regularly.

Quoted message said:

The point that I was trying to make is that a life-changing event
happens so quickly and the circumstances where the result is life are
not very different from ending in death.

Sure, hopefully if we don't die from our mistakes, we learn from them. Some
people don't, Darwin takes care of them eventually. Sorry.

Quoted message said:

I can remember a number of situations during my life that could have
ended fatally but did not. It was not because of any particular skill
that I had to extract myself from danger - just luck.

<snip list of harrowing experiences>

Quoted message said:

I could list quite a few harrowing tales from my motorcycling,
cycling, sea kayaking and bushwalking days. I am not accident-prone
but have lived a life outdoors. I am thankful that all my injuries
have been repairable but I just happened to fall to the survival side
of the knife edge. It might easily be different the next time. For
me, that is cause to think about the fine line between life and death.

I agree that situations that we do not expect or have planned for do occur.
Amazingly, as I get older, these experiences come around less and less
often, even though there is far more traffic. I wonder why that is? Luck?

I think I have said in the past that when I do have a close call my first
thought is not "[censored] 4WD" or "Idiot door-opener" but "What did I do wrong
to put myself into that situation".

Theo

Tamyka Bell said:

Theo Bekkers wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OK, I'm sorry. It was the pick-up drivers fault Bill ran into the
wheel he was following at a distance of 1 inch.

Quoted message said:

Where did you get that measurement from, Theo? "On his wheel" is still
wheelsucking at 5, 10 inches, in different conditions. The original
post didn't say 1 inch.

You're right Tam, the original post said he rubbed wheels with the rider in
front of him. That might not be 1 inch.

Theo

Tamyka Bell said:

Theo Bekkers wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I know it sounds callous of me but you think that a car driver
should leave enough room for a rider to fall down and skid along the
road? This is not <snip>

When you overtake another vehicle, do you not allow enough room for
the vehicle to veer slightly (as may occur if the driver shoulder
checks, so many people bloody veer) - do you pass so close to it that
they must travel perfectly straight to not hit you?

When someone crosses the road in front of you where there is no marked
crossing, do you just assume that they'll keep going at the same pace?
Do you not allow yourself sufficient stopping distance lest they trip
and fall in front of your vehicle?

A driver should always, always, always allow themselves enough space
to react to a changing situation.

I agree with you Tam. I you left a metre, which is often more than the
distance between cars in adjacent lanes, that still wouldn't allow enough
space for the rider to fall off after running into the bicycle in front of
him or her. To allow enough space for the rider to fall down you would need
to leave the whole lane.

Theo

Theo Bekkers wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I think I have said in the past that when I do have a close call my first
thought is not "[censored] 4WD" or "Idiot door-opener" but "What did I do wrong
to put myself into that situation".

It's nice that some people still like to take responsibility for their
own actions. It's a shame that all too often when you ask, "What did I
do wrong to put myself into that situation?" you come up with, "Nothing,
I did everything I could."

Tam

Theo Bekkers said:

Tamyka Bell said:

Theo Bekkers wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OK, I'm sorry. It was the pick-up drivers fault Bill ran into the
wheel he was following at a distance of 1 inch.

Quoted message said:

Where did you get that measurement from, Theo? "On his wheel" is still
wheelsucking at 5, 10 inches, in different conditions. The original
post didn't say 1 inch.

You're right Tam, the original post said he rubbed wheels with the rider in
front of him. That might not be 1 inch.

Theo

If you're following at 10cm, then a truck scares the sh!t out of you,
you might not notice the guy in front signalling or calling that he's
braking, you might not slow down as quickly as he does, you might ride
into him.

I had a guy riding on my right on a 3-exit roundabout freak out and veer
into me, pushing us off the road. He came off, somehow I didn't but
that was luck, not skill. He freaked out because, having been hit by a
truck before, he'd made the assessment that this truck was going too
fast to make it around the bend to the next exit, and must have been
going off at the current exit, and he was going to get out of the way of
it. And straight into me, apparently. He was following the guy in front
at a safe distance, and he was a safe distance away from me, until he
freaked out.

The guy in question may have been riding very safely, until it all came
undone. My deepest condolences to those who knew him.

Tam

To fall from riding position directly to the side would place someones head approximately 1.2 -1.5m from where the wheels were riding. Add to that the possibility that someone may swerve towards the center of the road during this could put your head up to approximately 1.8m closer to the center line of the road.

Based on this just about every car that passes a cyclist in a on road situation could possibly kill someone if they fell at that particular moment.

I am by no means detracting from the death of another cyclist, as it is a horrible shame but really it is a terrible case of bad luck that was made that much more likely by following closely on a narrow debris covered road as described. Also assuming that by "first ride of spring" means a snowy winter (this would explain alot of debris after a snow melt) then who here would be really willing to sit on a wheel if you hadn't been on your bike for 3-4months.

The same outcome would occur in almost all instances if a car was passing at that moment, even with quite an acceptable gap that wouldn't phase most cyclists.

Realistically, if you crash onto your side for any reason in a traffic environment there is a good chance of being squashed. And assuming that people will swerve and not just panic brake and skid into you would be a mistake in alot of cases also.

I know it sounds callous of me but you think that a car driver should leave
enough room for a rider to fall down and skid along the road?

Yes!
During my driver training when I was working for the ambulance service, we were instructed to pass cyclists with enough width so as to not strike them if they fell over towrds the centre of the road.

This is not something the driver would expect

Why not? Shouldn't all road users expect the unexpected? It's called defensive driving (and riding).

Pat